SP 4.0 and "older" cards information

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:37 pm

Typically, if you buy non-computer music hardware (such as hardware synths, digital recorders, etc.), it holds it value much better if you decide to sell it later. You will still likely lose some money, but not as dramatically.

It's unfortunate that computer products don't hold their value like other items, but that's reality.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:55 pm

or:

Do you know what amount of money people owning a copy of Logic 4.7 (AD 2000 I suppose) have to pay to have the latest Logic Pro? It's almost 700 Euros!
And looking at the http://www.osxaudio.com sequencer poll (bottom right corner of the site) Logic pro is the most popular Mac sequencer!

During this period of time you got all the Pulsar software updates for free!

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-04-06 19:58 ]

MOFO · Post by **MOFO** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:59 pm

You say free updates I say free bug fixes.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:17 pm

beleive me,as great as logic is,the update is always a bugfix.the difference between 4.7 and 5.0 was not all that great on the surface.most of the real change was beneath the skin.

there is not a lot to do for the sfp surface but fix a few bugs,beneath the skin however,things can ALWAYS be improved. i'm sure that as always with updates, v4.0 will be a further optimization of what came before......probably a bug or two as well

,with a product as sophisticated as this,there are too many variables to deal with(product combinations,working styles,customer error,misunderstanding and impatience,software combinations,software/hardware combinations)to avoid all bugs(as with all other major computer apps.,even banking apps..). at some point you must release to the public and see what happens. certainly,how well things really DO work is a testament to the skill of the programmers at cwa.

it'll be o.k.......

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:18 pm

You say free updates I say free bug fixes.

If you find it this way... You can't find free bug fixes at Emagic for that period of time...

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-04-06 20:20 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:13 pm

yeah,thanks for the translation into english!

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:19 pm

On 2004-04-06 19:59, MOFO wrote:
You say free updates I say free bug fixes.

Correct. Bug fixes are what we are entitled to. Remember, all software products have bugs in them to some degree; I think for a PC, the platform runs pretty well. You can harp all you want but I bet there are a lot MORE people who would rather Creamware does what it has to at this point to stay afloat, rather than becoming a non-entity, just to give you some freebie.

Guillermo · Post by **Guillermo** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:52 pm

When I bought my old Pulsar in 1999 the situation was very different. Now VST or CoreAudio plugins has evolved a lot, while Scope plugins continues being the same thing. On the other hand, last plugins of Creamware sounds well but they lack innovating, multichannel synths, etc. I believe that the new packages are a necessary update, because state-of-the-art in the world of plugins is very strong now.
In the other Creamware the only thing that has done has been to make a new brand image and to promise the SDK free. I know that Creamware has limited resources. However I'm afraid that it isn't sufficient to make of the Scope platform a competitive product.
Think it, I have spent much money with the Scope system, but a person whom he has to spend the money in a new audio system, he will think much. With the money of a Scope card he can to buy a lot of native plugins of any kind. Yes, with a Scope you have latency 0 in plugins and you don't use computer processor (except by the processor based graphical engine), but after all a musician wants a system that works. A sequencer with an audio interface and a pile of plugins works, and it is cheap.

(Sorry if my english is very bad)

Guillermo · Post by **Guillermo** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:27 pm

On 2004-04-06 20:18, samplaire wrote:
You say free updates I say free bug fixes.
If you find it this way... You can't find free bug fixes at Emagic for that period of time...

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-04-06 20:20 ]

You can download from Microsoft free bug fixes, and Microsoft is not an ideal company.
Emagic has not free bug fixes because Logic works fine (fine is not perfect).

Creamware could only have sold SFP 3.0, that is a real update. But I think that Creamware offered SFP 3 as a free update because 2.x was very problematic.

enb141 · Post by **enb141** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:17 pm

In my opinion creamware should include the new packages to us "the old users", why? because that will motivate future users to get software plugins in the future saving what they invested, the reason is because I was in that position in the past so I waited a long time to buy my Luna II because I was afraid that they were releasing a new package (like SFP 4 in this days) and I had to loose the new package for less money, in my opinion a lot of people are afraid of that and that's why they are not buying creamware products.

Other example is like GSIF 2.0 (new GigaStudio 3 protocol), they said that are not in their priorities right now but M-AUDIO sound cards are going to support it, M-AUDIO and other sound cards also supports multi client ASIO (I hope this will be supported in the future by creamware). My point is that creamware should divide SFP in twice, the first part will be the driver/protocol update (this must support as many new technlologies as they appear), the second one is the SFP with all the new packages that they offer to new clients to old users too.

[ This Message was edited by: enb141 on 2004-04-06 23:19 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:19 pm

On 2004-04-06 21:52, Guillermo wrote:
...On the other hand, last plugins of Creamware sounds well but they lack innovating, multichannel synths, etc. I believe that the new packages are a necessary update, because state-of-the-art in the world of plugins is very strong now.
...

I can hardly imagine a sound which cannot be done in Scope if you add Modular and Flexor to the palette.
Whatever method created the sound, it remains a sound - it doesn't get any better because it was generated on a new type of circuit (or algorithm).

There is room for improving the handling of synth controllers, no doubt, but I don't believe in 'innovative' sound generation.

I had my first synth around the time David Bowie released 'Starman'.

It was an old tube radio where I fed back the speaker-out into tape-in with arbitrarily connected resistors, capacitors and coils - choosen by nothing but coolness factor of shape and color

I turned the volume dial and it started to brrmmmm-bleep-blep-blp-blp-beeeep...
well, at a more sophisticated level I recently tweaked exactly the same kind of sounds out of Wavelength's latest creation

I frequently was tempted to buy that radio on a flea market to sample it - and I still remember the Bowie tune from exactly that thing.

cheers, Tom

MOFO · Post by **MOFO** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:36 pm

On 2004-04-06 21:19, Liquid Len wrote:

Correct. Bug fixes are what we are entitled to. Remember, all software products have bugs in them to some degree; I think for a PC, the platform runs pretty well. You can harp all you want but I bet there are a lot MORE people who would rather Creamware does what it has to at this point to stay afloat, rather than becoming a non-entity, just to give you some freebie.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:11 am

I think CWA should give everything away for free. Even the hardware. Otherwise how will they compete with vst. VST instruments have evolved so much. It must be true because we have been saying this for the last 5 yrs.

Guillermo · Post by **Guillermo** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:36 am

On 2004-04-06 23:19, astroman wrote:
On 2004-04-06 21:52, Guillermo wrote:
...On the other hand, last plugins of Creamware sounds well but they lack innovating, multichannel synths, etc. I believe that the new packages are a necessary update, because state-of-the-art in the world of plugins is very strong now.
...
I can hardly imagine a sound which cannot be done in Scope if you add Modular and Flexor to the palette.
Whatever method created the sound, it remains a sound - it doesn't get any better because it was generated on a new type of circuit (or algorithm).

There is room for improving the handling of synth controllers, no doubt, but I don't believe in 'innovative' sound generation.

I had my first synth around the time David Bowie released 'Starman'.

It was an old tube radio where I fed back the speaker-out into tape-in with arbitrarily connected resistors, capacitors and coils - choosen by nothing but coolness factor of shape and color
I turned the volume dial and it started to brrmmmm-bleep-blep-blp-blp-beeeep...
well, at a more sophisticated level I recently tweaked exactly the same kind of sounds out of Wavelength's latest creation
I frequently was tempted to buy that radio on a flea market to sample it - and I still remember the Bowie tune from exactly that thing.

cheers, Tom

Yes, it's truth that Modular+Flexor allows to make a vast amount of sounds. But synths is not only the algorithm. I was thinking rather about the structure, mapping and interface of the synth. For example, I long for a multipurpose S+S device (something like the XV5080 perhaps). I suppose that DP software conditions a lot about the design of the interface, the allocation of voices, complexity of the mapping, etc. The only exception is STS sampler series, that are developed in a different way.

YiannisK · Post by **YiannisK** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:52 am

I think CW should give out the software to old cw users according to there past purchase. A 3dsp card owner gets the home software free, A6dsp card owner gets the Progect software free, and A 15,or14dsp card owner gets the Proffesional software package free.
After all us old guys have supported CW all this time and talked highly about there products, so in a way we sort of kept them alive by using there stuff.
What kind of an effect would CW have on them by giving out this software free to old users.
I think very happy and excited CW consumers would have a positive effect for there company, very happy consumers would be a could marketing strategy, maybe spend alittle more and get some more dsp power in return.
How about creating a special package for us......
I don`t know maybe i`m selfish.
Well what ever we get i`ll get over it writing a song or two lol

YiannisK · Post by **YiannisK** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:57 am

On 2004-04-06 23:17, enb141 wrote:
In my opinion creamware should include the new packages to us "the old users", why? because that will motivate future users to get software plugins in the future saving what they invested, the reason is because I was in that position in the past so I waited a long time to buy my Luna II because I was afraid that they were releasing a new package (like SFP 4 in this days) and I had to loose the new package for less money, in my opinion a lot of people are afraid of that and that's why they are not buying creamware products.

[ This Message was edited by: enb141 on 2004-04-06 23:19 ]

This is probably the best point mentioned

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:47 am

On 2004-04-07 01:11, bassdude wrote:
I think CWA should give everything away for free. Even the hardware. Otherwise how will they compete with vst. VST instruments have evolved so much. It must be true because we have been saying this for the last 5 yrs.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:47 am

Don't be trolled.
Look at his name MOFO - you do know, what that means right?
Anyway, he wrote, that even bofore, he could not get half of, what he payed.
He didn't want the card before the update.
He made a purchase, that didn't fit him.
Now he blames the company.
One could always wonder, if he did his prepurchase research well enough.
Being a Creamware user since 1.3, I can certainly say, that not only bug fixes has been released.

There will always be bitchers. If the cards never dropped in price, people complain, that "even today, when CPUs are cheaper this card still costs the same".
Now CW "makes the cards cheaper" by adding extra plug-inns. I wonder, if the same whiners would cry their wounded souls out, if Creamware had just dropped the price.
Would they go "Creamware are evil. I want a refund, because I bought my card at a thigher price".

Try that at you local mall, when they sell cheap milk. "I bought this milk yesterday - I want a refund".
Or even worse, when the mall sells the milk as "get 2 - pay for 1". Do you go cry "I only got one milk yestday for the same money - I want one mroe for freeeeeee - whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa".

Trollers are not always borring - sometimes they are even fun

stefanh · Post by **stefanh** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:57 am

Hi Pulsar and CreamWare Users!!!
I was sure about it, that it will be like this and i totally understand this!
I am a Pulsar - Owner since the first month, owning Pulsar 1, Pulsar 2 and a Pulsar 1SRB, as well as Noah EX, A16 and Wordclock Modul. I bought through the years nearly all of their optional Plugins, so i allready owning the licences for Minimax, ProOne, Vectron, etc, lets say the SynthPack and Studio/MixerPack, as well the Samplers. So it wasn't my fault that CreamWare is running out of money!
Why should CreamWare give now everything for free to you ???
I honestly don't see any reason for that.
If they bundle this packages to the new hardware, it is a marketing to get new customers and money. This is allright.
If they give evrything for free to everyone, they can close again.
AND: Don't forget that CreamWare never wanted any Cent for an update!
Look at Native Instrument, Linplug, ADOBE, Microsoft, Steinberg etc., they all charging a lot of money for there updates (bugfixes and some enhancements).

thorkell · Post by **thorkell** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:15 am

On 2004-04-07 04:57, stefanh wrote:
Hi Pulsar and CreamWare Users!!!
I was sure about it, that it will be like this and i totally understand this!
I am a Pulsar - Owner since the first month, owning Pulsar 1, Pulsar 2 and a Pulsar 1SRB, as well as Noah EX, A16 and Wordclock Modul. I bought through the years nearly all of their optional Plugins, so i allready owning the licences for Minimax, ProOne, Vectron, etc, lets say the SynthPack and Studio/MixerPack, as well the Samplers. So it wasn't my fault that CreamWare is running out of money!
Why should CreamWare give now everything for free to you ???
I honestly don't see any reason for that.
If they bundle this packages to the new hardware, it is a marketing to get new customers and money. This is allright.
If they give evrything for free to everyone, they can close again.
AND: Don't forget that CreamWare never wanted any Cent for an update!
Look at Native Instrument, Linplug, ADOBE, Microsoft, Steinberg etc., they all charging a lot of money for there updates (bugfixes and some enhancements).

I really agree to this! Why should CW give all the plugins to you! Should they then also repay me plugins I'm been buying from them the last months? Another thing: CW has done alot more than giving "bugfixes" - I will only mention here few: XTC mode, masterverb, Lightwave, Prisma, STM2448 etc.... or in fact a whole new product compared with the original Pulsar 2 system I originally bought!!!
So in other words if CWAudio is to give anything away to the user base they should give away some new product no one has yet (like the Hexachorus cristmas gift 2 years ago). By giving current plugins to users they are mainly rewarding users that did not buy plugins in the first place - and giving the finger to users that actually spent some money buying plugins and supporting Creamware in act, not just words!

[ This Message was edited by: thorkell on 2004-04-07 05:21 ]