CW looking for experienced OSX and Linux hackers

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:02 pm

Flames! lol...

Personally I think this is great if they can do it without comprimising the integrity of their hardware keys--which they should be able to do just as easily as on any other platform by keeping that portion of the code quite closed.

In fact I can even see 'OsX' users who would NEVER get a pc running a few creamware cards in a very inexpensive 'linux' box. Granted its not a huge portion of Apple's userbase, and Apple's userbase is only 3% (or less now?) of the whole 'PC' market, but it definately opens up new territory.

For example I actually intend to get a G5 eventually as I've worked with enough Sonar & Cubase users to want to stick with Logic. Yet I also waited to see what the G5's teething problems are. Now when I finally make that purchase and 'upgrade' I will have a pc that doesn't require the microsoft tax to keep running my 'aging' but quite lovely Creamware cards & SFP.

What a treat if it pans out (especially since I'll be spending more than I'm saving on the Apple-tax).

[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2004-03-20 15:05 ]

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:07 pm

@Kenf
Well, it wasn't meant as an insult or something. It's
just that I had the impression you think additional
platform support would slow down the overall development -
and that's plain wrong... - our project adds additional
manpower, after all.

BTW, like I stated, this is a community project. I
don't work for CreamWare.

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:24 pm

Hi wsippel
I think the cross-platform idea is just dandy....
But I just want XTC mode sorted next week...thats all. I am fed up with everything I try to do with it having an annoying 'bug' somewhere. Can't you sort that out first:) I will put you on my Christmas Card list.
What I am questioning is not finishing 3.1c properly.
I now realise that it is nothing to do with you. Which is a shame because you seem to be listening.
Regards
Kenf
BTW I have a BEng in Software Engineering.

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:45 pm

Kenf,
I got your point. You know, CW may be back in business,
but they sure have some problems to solve regarding the
insolvency...
We would really love to join the complete codebase ASAP,
so that CW's staff could keep concentrating on the Windows
and OS 9 aspects like XTC, or SFP 4.0. But we have to start
somewhere, and CW wants to see if we can get this working
on Linux and OSX first.

Maybe you want to help out?

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:49 pm

wsippel
I prefer making music to writing software...
Kenf

inDSP Frank · Post by **inDSP Frank** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:50 pm

Many thanks to Willie for his coordination effort. Yes, CWA is ready to open up parts of the platform for such Linux and OSX porting project. As Willie noted, this is a community initiative, not an CWA undertakting.

Please help us to find the OSX and Linux wizards we need to make it happen.

Frank

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:37 pm

On 2004-03-20 14:25, wsippel wrote:
...BTW, what 'superior libs' have you seen vanishing?

I did some research on the subject around 1990 and cannot remember any of the candidates brands (some pretty expensive btw) in press anymore - so I consider them vanished, but of course I didn't look for a scientific proof

I finally ended with Neuron Data's Open Interface (not to be messed with an identically named ix product) and that one is definetely out of business - the company and it's properties have been sold.

Nevertheless this library has become my personal measure for software quality.
It was pure Ansi C, but a lesson for object-oriented programming (and concept & design!) par excellence.

The resulting apps could switch their GUI between Mac, Windows, OS2, Motif and another ix on the fly during runtime.
Not a gimmick, in fact it was intended for corporate software where departements had different systems (yes, there were days...)

They benched it on SGI against the native SGI graph lib and ended with only a 30% lower performance for platform independend stuff (the SGI lib was highly optimized!).

I have stuff resulting from this lib from the early 90s - still running today without a single modification - obviously, as it cannot be modified anymore

cheers, Tom

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:05 pm

I think this is a great idea. This and the idea of opening up the Creamware device development platform is totally sweet. I really hope they also open up XTC so the community can have a go at fixing some of the bugs themselves!

Encouraging an enthusiastic community seems like a solid business plan to me.

I really think this is the right direction and it certainly is a new area and a great way for Creamware to continue to get new customers as well as increase it's profile.

I say good luck to the Linux port project.

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:35 pm

@astroman
See, and that's why I would use QT now. Native look and
speed on every platform, while beeing source-compatible...

However, you seem to know your stuff - why not join?

[ This Message was edited by: wsippel on 2004-03-20 19:43 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:00 pm

I'm pretty impatient to build an audio daw in this OS (see the screenshots),
http://www.mandrakelinux.com

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:55 pm

just imagine a dedicated CW box on linux without windows BS.. this is great news!

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:57 pm

is the SFP port require a window system such as gnome or KDE or run directly and do its own window system (which it does anyways) it would be cool to see how nice that runs when not "on top" of another GUI.

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:31 am

This is REALLY great. Now, if only Steinberg ported their stuff for Linux...

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:50 am

@Neutron
Well, we´ll use the same GUI-library as the current version,
so it will look exactly the same on every platform...
But this library uses GTK under Linux, so it may integrate
well with Gnome (it will at least use the same font renderer).

LHong · Post by **LHong** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:33 pm

On 2004-03-21 10:50, wsippel wrote:
@Neutron
Well, we´ll use the same GUI-library as the current version,
so it will look exactly the same on every platform...
But this library uses GTK under Linux, so it may integrate
well with Gnome (it will at least use the same font renderer).

Wow,
It would be very interesting projects! Scope4Linux is a part our wishlist...

wsippel, question for you regarding the Linux:
1> How far we can get it's fully functional from now (time and effort). In other words, what is your schedule?
2> What is current GUI-Library, IDE compiler is being used?
3> Linux Driver (Kernel?) and API for PCI are done yet? Partial or complete?
4> How do you want to pay the developer? It seems be international projects?
5> Summary the project? How many Developers currently/will be working on this project?
6> Does the hardware use DMA capability?
7> How about Beta Tester?

I just try to contribute the Linux project for later time. At the moment (3-6 months), I'm working 12 hours daily (included weekend), something like PCI and USB V2.0 kernel drivers for Windows/Linux/Solaris with the basic low/high level API...Not sure what/how can We help?

Best regards,
LongStudio

[ This Message was edited by: LHong on 2004-03-21 17:12 ]

wsippel · Post by **wsippel** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:52 pm

@LHong
1) We'll start the port in about three weeks, just after the
'Musikmesse Frankfurt'.
2) The current GUI is based on wxWidgets, the IDE doesn't
really matter as long as it supports C++, the compiler will
be GCC, of course (3.2 or 3.3, I think).
3) The kernel drivers will be ported soon, shouldn't take more
than a week, according to our ALSA guru.
4) It's international, it' a community effort, and it's
a non-profit thing.
5) We currently have three developers (2xLinux, 1xMac/
Linux), with some help from CW's staff.
6) Don't know, yet.
7) Still undetermined.

I hope we'll be done in about three month's, we'll see.
But we still need any help we can get...

@spoimala
I think we'll see Cubase for Linux just after hell froze
over...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:14 pm

On 2004-03-20 19:35, wsippel wrote:
...However, you seem to know your stuff - why not join?

tnx for the invitation - but I'm probably of little use in such a project.
I have to replace the apps I mentioned above by a web based solution and that already takes a lot of attention.

I don't think C/++ anymore for at least 8 years, and I don't actually miss it

Nevertheless I wouldn't mind to peek at some details of the strategy - if that's possible without revealing a big deal of business secrets.
Needless to say I know what a non-disclosure agreement is about.
Feel free to pmail me, if you think it may fire my motivation

cheers, Tom

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:03 pm

Will there be some sort of beta program? I'm not currently running linux but I'd be willing to set up a 2nd boot to help you guys debug SFP on linux.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:26 am

Yeah, me too, i already downloaded the redmudi distribution to see how it looks...

If tester, debugger, code reviewer is needed, i volunteer gladly.

Same as astroman for me, i didn't touch C/C++ for about 6-7 years, but i defenitely know enough to help is certain area...

Kenf · Post by **Kenf** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:30 am

Hi
I noticed this....
http://www.zkm.de/lad