Nuendo2 and SFP, how to create a loopback routing with out f

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:54 am

Hi all,

Well let me try and desacribe what I am doing and whats happening. I am trying to make a simple loop from SFP into Nuendo so I can burn audio tracks of SFP synths to lighten up DSP load, in essence a bounce.

Whats happening is that when ever I arm the monitor or record track in Nuendo2 I get insane feedback, now, I am able to do this via analog ins where I do not get the feedback issue, but when I try a virtual routing to Nuendos inputs I get the feedback.

I am using an STM2448 and have 16 stereo channels out and in, my ASIO2 dest is routed 1-16 viea stereo pairs from the STM with additional inserts for the (5) stereo busses from the STM2448.

What drives me nuts is that almost no matter what I do, unless I mute stereo input (1) in nuendo I am sort of "always getting a signal to the inputs, but If I disconect this I lose the master which seems to reside on stereo out L1/R1...

Am I doing something wrong? is there a much easier way to be able to record SFP synths into Nuendo? the reason I have the stereo outs set to nuendo, is so I can record wet/dry etc synths and effects on mutliple channels so multi record tracks if needed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, all I need to do is get it so I can make a virtual routing of outputs from my STM to be able to bounce files to Nuendo with out causing feedback..

Cheers!

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:14 pm

I use Cubase SX2, but I imagine the routing set-up will be the same....
Monitor your mix via STM24/48 Ctrl room outs.ie that's what goes to your amp.
In normal circumstances use the Busses....(you have your STM busses routed to ASIO dest, right?) to send anything you want from the STM to your sequencer......
But if you want to record stuff with SFP send FX sometimes it's easiest to use the mix outs to capture whatever you have unmuted in the STM24/48....ie plug into ASIO dest. You shouldn't enable monitoring on your track in Nuendo (this'll be the cause of the feedback in this set-up coz it'll send the signal back to Scope)...as long as you know the signal is there & a good level....you'll hear your source direct from the ST24/48's Ctrl Room Outs.
Hope it works......

[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-03-18 12:28 ]

[wana] · Post by **[wana]** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:56 pm

why don't u guys use the asio drivers directly into cubase or nuendo?
use the vst instruments version of the xtc sinths and use the merge channels to bounce the tracks back into wave form. (this persiger is in the manual)
I think that's the best way.
So close the Scope platform b4 opening Cubase or Nuendo and choose the Scope Asio drivers from the device setup multitrack menu.
Good luck

[wana]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:53 pm

Plato,

Ill have to give that a try this evening, I am currently monitoring my analog dest from the Mix L/R of the STM mixer, though having a control room function might be a good thing to try, I have been trying to strip down some of my set up to conserve DSP resources..

Wanna,

Unfortunately, the theory is sound but I prefer to use SFP over XTC since alot of devices are not XTC compatible, aswell as you lose a great deal of controle and possibilites by not using SFP. So for me I like to run signals to Nuendo, its a little tough getting used to working in two enviorments at 1st but once ya get it going its a great combo..

Thanks for the replies so far all..

Cheers!

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:55 pm

On 2004-03-18 14:56, [wana] wrote:
why don't u guys use the asio drivers directly into cubase or nuendo?
use the vst instruments version of the xtc sinths and use the merge channels to bounce the tracks back into wave form.

[wana]

Well, I just never use XTC mode...keeping things in SFP gives you so much more flexibility- routing anything anywhere, experimenting, and when things are set up correctly it's easy to record into Cubase should you need to....I guess it allows for those off-the-cuff moments....putting Cubase into record and messing with knobs inevitably gives you things that pre-meditated editing doesn't (and vice-versa).
Both methods of working are completely valid, but using the Scope environment allows you the flexibility.

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:59 pm

On 2004-03-18 15:53, Basic Pitch wrote:
Plato,
I am currently monitoring my analog dest from the Mix L/R of the STM mixer, though having a control room function might be a good thing to try,

It's the only way if you want Solo to work properly (I think)

Edit: Also, you can then plug your mix outs to Wave Dest to record your mix to whatever Digi editing prog you have without even leaving the computer.

[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-03-18 16:03 ]

[wana] · Post by **[wana]** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:23 pm

i'll give it a try

[wana]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:44 pm

I use SFP, monitor in Cntr Room with monitoring disabled in Cubase, and mixdown in Cubase too, another app is not needed. If you just hook Mix out to a couple of Asio destination channels you are done, and the disabled monitoring in Cubase prevents any nasty loop.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:45 am

Voila. I don't see any reason either, to use another program than your regular sequencer - if it can do the job. I never monitor through SX, all I want to hear can be set from SFP...

Post by **garyb** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:03 am

ditto.

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:27 am

I suppose I got into the habit of using Wavelab because in old Cubase, complex stereo mixes just didn't seem to sound as good. Also ,because you can specify a default temp file location in Wavelab, you can instantly start recording to a different HD at the press of one button (record!), and I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly?) that this eases the strain on Cubase. It also automatically seperates out the master recording from the Cubase project, leaving you with a neat collection of all your finished works in one location.....still, whatever works for you.....it'd be interesting to see if there is any noticeable difference in quality between SX2 & Wavelab.
By the way, on the subject of sound quality, has anyone noticed when using the Scope ASIO 2 floating point drivers, that the first 2 output channels in SX don't come up as being 32 bit, and sound weedy compared to all the others ?......why should that be ?....makes me not want to use outs 1 & 2 at all.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:33 am

Ok so I set up last night the ctr-room to analog dest to monitor my outs, at 1st I thought you were talking about addint a control room module since I have mix-n-masters hehe, but I got it squared away.

I found that it was super easy to cut my direct outs and just leave the 5 strereo busses, then in the channel strip just set what ever I want to record in the record buss per channel, its like 1 mouse click and your recording, then when I am done with the bounce I just turn it off, super fast like this and doesnt cause me to constantly have live channels streaming into Nuendo while im not recording...

What was nice about this is, I didnt have to solo anything, I could let the track play and I would only get the channel that was bussed. I am sure there are tons of different ways to acheive this but atleast I didnt get the feedback I had been getting.

Now as far as the ASIO2, I am using ASIO2 16 Source, should I be using a different source to get the best sound from SFP? I belive the ASIO destinations to be the same regardless of the source modules...

Cheers!

PS. Plato Im like you, I use a wave dest. to rout my mix or audio parts to a wave editor, sure you can do a loop into the sequencer, but have you honestly ever tried to edit audio in SX/Nuendo? its in the dark ages compared to Soundforge/Wavelab, plus with Steiny apps you can set your audio to automatically default to wavelab as external editor if im not mistaken

[ This Message was edited by: Basic Pitch on 2004-03-19 10:35 ]

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:33 am

On 2004-03-19 10:33, Basic Pitch wrote:

Now as far as the ASIO2, I am using ASIO2 16 Source, should I be using a different source to get the best sound from SFP? I belive the ASIO destinations to be the same regardless of the source modules...

Well I use ASIO 2 flt 64 (I think it's called- I'm not actually at my music comp at the mo) for recording 32 bit files, & the 24 bit Wave Source/Dest. ASIO dest are the same ie ASIO 2.

On 2004-03-19 10:33, Basic Pitch wrote:

PS. Plato Im like you, I use a wave dest. to rout my mix or audio parts to a wave editor, sure you can do a loop into the sequencer, but have you honestly ever tried to edit audio in SX/Nuendo? its in the dark ages compared to Soundforge/Wavelab, plus with Steiny apps you can set your audio to automatically default to wavelab as external editor if im not mistaken

Actually SX2 is not far behind at all now, on the editing front, and unfortunately SX doesn't allow use of external editors anymore (apart from samples in Halion etc) because it screws up the infinite undo thing. Big downer- you have to close Cubase, open Wavelab, find your file etc.
There are some real benefits to the SX system, like the ability to force plugins into the equation etc, and it's definitely quicker for many jobs, but I agree, I definitely prefer editing masters in Wavelab (amongst other tasks).....I wouldn't be without it.

[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-03-19 11:35 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:27 pm

Well, you can record masters in the daw, and edit them later where you want...

EarlyFirst · Post by **EarlyFirst** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm

Basic what's UP!

here is how to record into a seq without FEEDBACK

ASIO channels 1-16 or more it doesn't matter

say your playing back from 1-14 from SX
this leaves 15,16 free
you want to record say the ProOne so in SX you set the input to the correct ASIO inputs( ASIO dest in SFP) not from the MIX OUT use the directouts or a buss...
BUT and this is IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!

you have 2 options..

1: you are monitoring the ProOne from SFP
2: you are monitoring the Pro One on the return from SX

1: the outputs would be set to 15,16 which in SFP those channels are taken OFF the MIX OUT each channel has the button...

2:The ProOne channel is taken OFF the MIX and the directout feeds the ASIO dest which then reutrns on the ASIO source 15,16

voila!

PT

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:38 am

Alfonso:
That goes without saying doesn't it?

Early First:
I was only suggesting using mix outs if you wanted a quick way of recording your synth/combination of sources PLUS any send FX from Scope, without having to think about re-routing FX returns.