To add to the bunch.. man, I've been in the same situation so many times, it's becoming a part of life for me.
Knowing what the boss wants is an important thing, you can't go wrong with that. But the dilemma most of the time is that the boss is not a music guy, and so he either doesn't know what he likes, he "thinks" he likes something while he actually prefering another, or he knows what he likes, but he just can't communicate it to you because of lack of musical experience. 2% of the time he knows what he likes and can communicate it to you... and that's when the "boss" actually knows a bit of composing. (grin)
A trick that works most of the time is to set up 3 different tunes... but tell the man you're working on 1. Then, give hime the first tune.. have him drop it. Then the second.. have him drop it. Most often than not, he'll definitely choose the third one. This works especially well with people who don't know what they want, or cannot make up their minds.
The thing is, the 1st and 2nd tunes help create a mental image for "boss", and the 3rd one will most likely nail it. (cuz you're using the 1st and 2nd tune to paint what YOU wnat) Also the 1st and 2nd tunes will help your boss feel comfortable with making decisions about music. Letting him say "no" puts him in control, and that signifies safety for him.
Of course, the toughest situation is when the boss knows exactly what he wants, in terms of arrangement, melody, percussion, etc.. but cannot communicate with you what he wants. Many people are shy to sound like they don't know anything about music, so they won't say anything unless they know the proper musical terms.
I'm working on a client right now, working on an artistic video clip. I've only met him once so far, but he's already starting to sound like a tough job. The dude is really poetic and lyrical about what he wants. "in the next cut, the girl throws the ball high into the air, as if freeing herself from something". Well, essentially the dude has told me that the ball had been thrown in the air. The "as if freeing herself from something" part only lives in words, or text. Not video or audio. So.. I'm telling the dude to keep away from reading too many poems and novels. He seems to have a hard time switching from text to video and audio.
I asked the director "So how do you want the video to be?" and he goes, "well, I want it to be really ... hmm.. I dunno how to put it". Well, so much goes for communicating ideas. hehe. (sorry for my share of the rant)
What to do when you can't compose what the customer want....
Wow! I'm really amazed and grateful with all the support you are all showing me here! Lots of great advise and experiences - Thanks a lot for that!
Fortunately it looks like I've composed something now that my boss thinks is good enough, all though there still is few details to fix (which I can't get him to describe for me......) But all in all I'm close to closing this project and I think that this final piece actually is the best of those I have composed for this project - When it's completely finished I'll post it for you to hear what all this was about.
Looking back now I can see that I have experienced most of the situations you have described in your posts.
So once again - thanks a lot for the support you have all shown me - it has been a great help in understaning the more subtle details of the whole process!
Cheers!
Thomas
Fortunately it looks like I've composed something now that my boss thinks is good enough, all though there still is few details to fix (which I can't get him to describe for me......) But all in all I'm close to closing this project and I think that this final piece actually is the best of those I have composed for this project - When it's completely finished I'll post it for you to hear what all this was about.
Looking back now I can see that I have experienced most of the situations you have described in your posts.
So once again - thanks a lot for the support you have all shown me - it has been a great help in understaning the more subtle details of the whole process!
Cheers!
Thomas
hi Petal,
I've follwed this thread and here are my thoughts:
Determine exactly what your client <i>expects</i> this 20 or 30 second piece of music to do - invite the player to enter, build suspense, provide comic relief, or carry the whole game.
The more work the client expects the music to do, the tougher your task is going to be. Wagner was not able to condense the melodies of the "Ring" cycle to less than a minute. Even Chuck Berry couldn't tell his stories in less than a minute.
So why not treat your part of the working relationship as if you were writing a song together? Sort of. I don't mean you should make your client provide rhymes. Just the bones of the story he is trying to tell. If it helps you to put the lyrics in an actual song format, do it! The client doesn't ever have to hear the words, but your tune will have the possible benefits of prosody and should make more sense in the context of the game.
And, hey, if it turns out to be a really great song, you can always keep it for yourself
john
added Feb 24, 04:
Hi Petal
I just stumbled across this site: http://www.audiogang.org/ and thought you might want to check it out. Don't know a thing about it, I was looking at the new guitar center gcpro site and this was linked. It appears to be for people involved in music for games.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jabney on 2004-02-23 22:09 ]</font>
I've follwed this thread and here are my thoughts:
Determine exactly what your client <i>expects</i> this 20 or 30 second piece of music to do - invite the player to enter, build suspense, provide comic relief, or carry the whole game.
The more work the client expects the music to do, the tougher your task is going to be. Wagner was not able to condense the melodies of the "Ring" cycle to less than a minute. Even Chuck Berry couldn't tell his stories in less than a minute.
So why not treat your part of the working relationship as if you were writing a song together? Sort of. I don't mean you should make your client provide rhymes. Just the bones of the story he is trying to tell. If it helps you to put the lyrics in an actual song format, do it! The client doesn't ever have to hear the words, but your tune will have the possible benefits of prosody and should make more sense in the context of the game.
And, hey, if it turns out to be a really great song, you can always keep it for yourself
john
added Feb 24, 04:
Hi Petal
I just stumbled across this site: http://www.audiogang.org/ and thought you might want to check it out. Don't know a thing about it, I was looking at the new guitar center gcpro site and this was linked. It appears to be for people involved in music for games.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jabney on 2004-02-23 22:09 ]</font>