What to do when you can't compose what the customer want....

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:02 pm

I've been working on this small project for quite a while now, making the titel-melody for a mobile java-game.

I've allready sent the "boss" a few different versions. In the last one he liked the percussion very much but he didn't quite like the melody! Damn I thought, but ok how hard can it be......

Very hard!

This is my fourth night with completely futile ideas that just wont work!!!! ARHHHHHGGGGGG - I have to finish this thing before thursday and I'm starting to panic.

I've tried to look up inspiration in music and movies within the genre.
And I've tried to call on the muses through alcihole, but still all my compositions sounds like crap!

I f...... knew that this would happen when I agreed to do this - Still I don't quite understand why it has to be this damn difficult - all I need to do is to make a 20-30 seconds long 4 polyfonic melody.

I don't expect you to solve my problem, I just needed to air my frustrations to some people I knew would have experienced this too.....

Post by **garyb** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:33 pm

well,you could write the symphony for the ages,an all time classic and your customer could still say "i hate it.". don't take it personally,just write some stuff and give it to him and say,"give me my money!'.

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:59 pm

True, but I can't give it to him if he doesn't want what I'm trying to give him......

Actually I think the man has been fair with me. It has been his project through the last 2 years, and I just joint up a few months ago on my own initiative. I think he is intitled to say: "I like the percussion, but I'm not really happy about the melody".

My problem is I'm stuck. I can't really come up with anything I think is good enough to even try to see if he likes it....

Ah well - I still got 24 hours..........

thomas

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:49 pm

Hi Petal!

As Garyb suggested you, don’t worry too much. Anyway, there is nothing worst than getting angry or something similar, to compose. One thing does not work well with the other.

TRUST YOURSELF ABOVE ALL!!!

You need to believe in yourself, I know these business people make you easily feel like rubbish and you start loosing confidence, and “mind” against “emotion” is a real problem. Your mind must shut up when you are composing, you need the freedom to “feel” what you are doing, and confidence is a natural feeling when composing. As natural as it would be to be hungry when eating… you should not eat if you are not hungry. In fact, you should not compose when you are not feeling doing it. I guess you already understood what is the problem.

Well, the problem is that you yourself, don’t want to compose. This is the first important fact you have to realise. If you do, you’ll act as an alcoholic facing regeneration. It is a known fact that an alcoholic person cannot be regenerated to a normal state, if he doesn’t accept by himself, the fact that he is ill. I would recommend you the same Petal, see sincerely inside yourself, and you’ll find you hate your boss, and that you actually don’t want to compose. Well… you need to get your natural fine feelings back, you need to feel well with composing for him, this way inspiration will come back to visit you, and your music will perspire the energy he is looking for and you are not giving him.

I know this problem very well, I have worked for business like people before, and they have been very hard experiences… they were even quite humiliating as well. I’m talking about jingles and the like. Well, I have nevertheless learned many things about music making, likes, relationships, etc., and they are NOT always wrong… you may be as well, as I was in certain points.

A suggestion about something I personally do, when I have to compose for someone something special. If the person is exigent, I will ask him to bring me a tape or CD with his best 6 songs. I would like to know first hand, what he likes and based on this, I would try to get into the mood for composing his way.

Allow me to give you another suggestion:
Go to your bed, lay down and relax, without getting asleep. Do some deep breathing for about 10 minutes. Breath in slowly till you lung is full of air, keep this air for a while, then breath out slowly, then keep empty. Do it as if it was a square breathing format, i.e., the four sections should last more an less the same amount of time. You are going to relax, I guaranty it! Then go to your boss in your imagination, and make peace with him. Explain to him your feelings and let him explain you what is going on within himself too. Be calm and above all, DO NOT get into any kind of struggle, just talk friendly with him in your mind. After you have done it, try to be pleasant and come back to your work, with as different a state of mind as possible is for you, try to compose something to please your boss, as a person, not as a boss.

Believe in yourself. You’re going to be successful if you do.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:18 pm

Ask him what he likes. Ask him to give you examples if he can name them.

Works wonders for me.

He doesn't like the melody? Reverse it. Play it backwards correcting the harmonic mistakes.

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:43 pm

Hi again

Thanks Nester and Paul.

Nestor, one thing though - I'm not in any kind of bad relationship with my boss, actually I think he has done what he should, being honest with me: "I really like the percussion but I don't like the melody" - fair enough, I'm getting closer!

My problem isn't his fault, I'm simply lacking inspiration, and is starting to panic about the fact.

But there is quite a few good pieces of advice in your mails - I think one of my main problems is, I have never really gotten into the heart of what he really want's, though he has given me a few examples.

well, I'm just a novice seeking advice, and I got it. I really appreciate your input!

Thanks!
Thomas

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:21 am

Ask him to sing to you the melody he wants, or at least a clear direction! You want to get precisely on the right spot here, and when someone says "I kind of like it but not quite", then it's time to ask for exact information, not to stay in the vague and try to figure it out, risking to get the same answer over again... Even "non-musicians" often can have precise ideas when asked to elaborate a little...

I give my music to listen to some friends these days, and when they have a constructive comment for improvements or things they like, I ask them "which song, which measure, what about it?" then I'm going somewhere, otherwise I often just don't know what they're talking about!

just my 2 cents...

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:40 am

I meet such situation almost everyday. Not necessarry personally though my business partner does - he's a good composer (his songs reach top 20 charts and his everyday job is composing for commercials) I always see him composing 7 versions and the client isn't still satisfied. Just you have to realize one thing - not to take it personally and try not to panic even if there's a little time. Clients often don't know what they want. So I guess you should compose a crap music. My partner always composes 2 optional versions - one with his taste and one very rough on emotions for the client to drop it. It is the rule that the client chooses the worse version

But it's his fault.
You do your best. Man can't jump higher than his ass is situated. If he is disappointed after this amount of versions then he would be if anybody composes for him.
World doesn't end with the situation. blablablah. I know it an old cliche but it works. Bad affirmation is worse than the situation you are in. Try to calm down - nerves don't help

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-02-18 05:41 ]</font>

petal · Post by **petal** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:51 am

Hi

eliam and samplaire, thanks a lot for your advice. I'll try put it to good use in my last efforts at completing this task.

Cheers!
Thomas

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:33 am

You can try and make it mental, if you are not in the mood. Actors and live musicians do this a lot. If you are happy and in love, you still have to be able to sing the sad song of grief. Therefor, those people need to have some tricks. The word is acting - not being.

Here are some suggestions.
If you have been doing "percussive" stacato melodies, maybe try and make something more legato.
If you have played in "normal" Danish minor and mator scales, maybe try something different. Playing A minor scale with E as fundamental is one option. Or make a big 7th in a minor scale: a, h, c, d, e, f, g#, a.
If your melody was very linked to the percussion, maybe try to break the pattern of the percussion, playing offbeat.

Just suggestions

Immanuel

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:26 pm

On 2004-02-18 06:51, petal wrote:
Hi

eliam and samplaire, thanks a lot for your advice. I'll try put it to good use in my last efforts at completing this task.

Cheers!
Thomas

What I truly appreciate here, is your disposition to leasten to people and overcome whatever the situation is. Congratulations for this Petal!

maket · Post by **maket** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:35 pm

I can try to help you with plasure,tell me what he want and i'll try compouse some?

maket · Post by **maket** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:39 pm

sorry to annoy ,but "I have never really gotten into the heart of what he really want's" This is the key of situation

petal · Post by **petal** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:10 pm

Yes I know....... DOH! But I've just recently realized that I should have communicated a lot more with him from the beginning. Well I tried, but I kind of sensed that he was started to get a bit annoyed with all my questions, so I just thought ok I'll figure this one out myself.
But if he is still interested in working with me tomorrow, when I hand in what I've got - Then I will insist on having a more detailed discussion with him about what he wants, because this is getting ridicules - I don't have a clue about if I'm on the right track, I'm composing blindfolded which could just as well be a waste of time....

Anyways I really appreciate the support you have all shown me here in my moment of dispair!

Cheers!
Thomas

ps. Maket, if I give up completely, I might take you up on that offer

maket · Post by **maket** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:13 pm

yes,OK Thomas

BTW,it could be a new one,nice side of our community if we'll help make job each other sometimes.
I know how it would be,when you don't want to do some job or don't have desire enough...
Probably if put announce here of undesired jobs,someone from us can be free and reducilouse enough to help in that?
WE'll win twice!!!!
THAT is our great possibility with pulsar,isn't it?

~

petal · Post by **petal** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:35 pm

Yes that would be very nice

But this time I actually think I just nailed it! - Yes, it's true - I just finished a completely new track, that just might be what I've been searching for for two weeks now.
At least now my consience is clean, I came up with something new for my boss to listen to.

Thomas

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:37 pm

Good boy

Great, I whish you good luck, show yourself as confident, and he may like it even more...

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:39 pm

Break a DSP, Petal

maket · Post by **maket** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:22 pm

Anyway,i sent one frame for
" BANK IDEAS "

(look at music topic)

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:47 am

Petal - I would like to add a bit of comment.

I deal with many clients in my studio that face the same challenges as you described. The successful ones all seem to approach this the same way....

At some point you will have to simply say to yourself, "This is the best I can offer. Take it or leave it!"

The successful artists I work with understand that they will not always hit a home run. Agents and managers don't always communicate effectively because they aren't sure either! They will give you just enough information and then expect you to fill in the blanks. Music is so subjective and what seems appropriate today might not be good enough tomorrow. There are just too many issues at stake.

Simply do the best you can and if it doesn't fly, don't agonize over it. The point is you keep trying! The more you try, the better you get and the better your chances will be that you will sell something.

Case in point: I had a client in recently who was selling songs to someone in New York that was responsible for buying music for the daytime soap operas. He had already sold a few pieces of music to them. They would take maybe 10 or 15 seconds of the song and put it in the show somewhere. He (we) had recorded a beautiful piece for an upcoming episode but it was rejected. I was amazed they said no. The song would have been perfect.

So you can never tell.

one last piece of useless info:

If you find yourself stuck in a musical corner, I've found that it helps to turn everything off and go outside and go for a walk in the park or go to the mall or go do something that clears the mind. Inspiration can come from the most unlikely places.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: krizrox on 2004-02-21 07:52 ]</font>