CreamWare reloaded

gustav · Post by **gustav** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:25 pm

i only give ideas (brainstorming)
its up to cw to make choices, to focus etc

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:27 pm

On 2004-02-09 02:50, EddieK wrote:
Any time you have an external solution, the cost goes up, and the power goes down...

that's true somehow, but since the external box is dead silent (it doesn't have a fan, doesn't it ? ) that's also appreciated (aside from the live etc stuff).

on the other hand it is really more 'simple and straightforward' as the control software isn't related to the sequencer anymore and doesn't even have to coexist with that precious little bitch.

I do get your point though, but imho most sequencer software is not very ergonomic or smart (don't bother - very personal).
I admit that I don't know them all, specially not the latest monsters

but I do know that one can get used to almost anything, if it's for production purpose.

Since I'm not under customer pressure my 4 DSPs require some timesharing now and then, but they do excellent sound processing and I consider them extremely useful

cheers, Tom

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:53 pm

Ouch ! a long thread to read after some vacations !

Will reply fully later ... must recover a little ...
2 highlights though : the DP and SDK more widespread availability + more support for third parties and the desire to see a community develop ; whoah, a dream come true ! very very very interesting things surely ahead !!!

Now the downside, the niche profile statement ... how much brain to connect and play a synth or FX in SFP ???
I barely go beyond that and I'am totally happy, now when I'll need more I'll dig the manuals.

The sounds I get out of my CW devices are not niche and low profile at all

Time to get out of the woods, in the full sun and bite some competitors !

More later.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:50 pm

On 2004-02-09 18:53, decimator wrote:
... the DP and SDK more widespread availability + more support for third parties and the desire to see a community develop ; whoah, a dream come true ! ...

at the risk of being annoying: it might as well turn out a nightmare...

my recent impression was that existing 3rd parties haven't got enough coverage yet.

To successfully finish a device seems to be an enormous amount of work and what's totally overlooked is the effort it takes to make a synth usable.
Everyone's talking about new processing, new algorithms etc. That's certainly the biggest fun, but I guess it's (if at all) 20% of the work to make a synth usable.

95% of what's currently released is top quality and I strongly vote for something to keep it this way, whatever applies.

cheers, Tom

EddieK · Post by **EddieK** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:52 pm

Tom...

I not knocking the way the small cards sound. SFP sounds great. I refering to competing against Digital Performer/Logic on an iBook.

You're right they are useful, but would you buy today?

borg · Post by **borg** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:10 am

You're right they are useful, but would you buy today?

i don't know how long you have had your card, eddie, but when (i guess) tom and others bought Pulsar1, and me buying my Pulsar2, prices of these cards cost about just as much (when first released) as a powerpulsar today (maybe a bit more, but certainly not double).
so yeah, at least i would buy again.

i just checked, and a pulsar 2 has dropped 1/3th in price since i bought it. another proof braincell talks out of his ass once in a while.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:25 am

On 2004-02-09 21:52, EddieK wrote:
...I refering to competing against Digital Performer/Logic on an iBook...

good point ! seems you have the undecided young dude in mind considering ...for a little more I could get the i(Power)Book and can do the complete track... as he walks around the shop (or checks some mag's ads).
It's always cool to get a PowerBook - you're one of the rich and famous instantaneously

Imho that's the main reason why CWA is pushing NOAH - it's associated with hardware though everyone knows it's software.
And I'm convinced without the finacial trouble we'd already have new DSP boards with onboard RAM.
Nevertheless I find it remarkable what the Pulsar One delivers. Yes, sometimes I can play 3(!) voices of the Solaris-2 and sometimes Mehdi's Echo2m eats all DSP power when sending a Casio VZ through it, but it can still record and playback

I really do like that system with it's flexibility and soundquality, but I'm afraid that wouldn't be a great marketing campaign...
more power, more fame, more glory

cheers, Tom

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:24 pm

Hey Tom, why don't you buy a new CW card? Four DSPs is NOT ENOUGH!!!

stronoff · Post by **stronoff** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:30 pm

Why do not make a firewire interface for the A16 Ultra? The extension slot is integrated, but yet unused.

???

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:44 pm

On 2004-02-10 13:24, Shayne White wrote:
Hey Tom, why don't you buy a new CW card? Four DSPs is NOT ENOUGH!!!

yeah, it makes me stand as an idiot from time to time...
my conflict: if I buy a card now then I have to 'write it off' for 3 years, which is no good deal - simplified I pay full.
If I had my tax balance finished I could buy a bigger setup, but on a leasing base - which would make it about 30% cheaper as it's relevant for tax.
But then I need to know EXACTLY how much

So if a real cheapo comes along, I'll pick it up immediately, the 'serious' stuff has to wait after the paperworks.

tnx for your concern, Tom

scary808 · Post by **scary808** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:45 pm

On 2004-02-10 15:30, stronoff wrote:
Why do not make a firewire interface for the A16 Ultra? The extension slot is integrated, but yet unused.

???

Great idea!

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:04 pm

Well Astroman, the dream comes true part is about CW now CWA releasing " the tools of deafness after sonic orgasms " to the " common people " and the desire to see a community develop !
Now that's really a new, different and refreshed Creamware !!!!

In reality it will be indeed a nightmare for those who will dive in ( I'am planning to be in the " party " )

I toyed with Reaktor since version 2, I have version 4 now but I nearly don't use it anymore ( and other VSTi's ) since now it's Creamware based devices at 80 % + of time

I have studied but not necessarily integrated the finest and deepest ensembles that really hurt the brain badly ...

I wouldn't be surprised after reading some posts that DP could be 10 times more complex to handle than Reaktor ( if that could be quantified )

***Huge amounts*** of time to do a simple thing, to debug, to just emit a sound, to just not think : doh ! it just plainly sucks !!!

I read the doc was a 8 MB rar file... that should translate to 500 pages ++ just to start with !

If the new DP/SDK is released in Spring, I just expect some output by the end of the year by those who haven't been discouraged, meaning a handful of devices per month at the very best.

In 2005 it could be very interesting though if CWA could in the meantime create all the necessary focus, buzz and momentum to generate a brain drain towards them, it should be brewing and be the challenge and emulation place.

Bring all the people who seek ultimate challenges and sounds home !

I'am rather busy this week but count on me for some bumping, more to say !!!!

lore · Post by **lore** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:12 pm

i agree with a firewire expansion for the A16 ultra , it'll temporarely solve the osx lack for me.

!!!!

Cochrane · Post by **Cochrane** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:49 am

What I would like to see:
* SFP 4.0:
- More robust drivers (Kernel mode low latency WDM for Sonar, ASIO 2.3 working well with system-link, GSIF 2.0), all multi-client (such as rme's);
- XTC and SFP mode as a unique mode (maybe, with a VST and a VSTi module to be seen in the SFP project and in the main DAW software (VST module for insert and FX tracks, VSTi module for VSTi rack));
- multi-client for midi drivers (and a debugged midi support, for true sys-ex operations on the pulsar midi ports);
- a Rewire module, host and client, to be seen in the project;
- a sort of 'total recall mode' also for SFP, for projects auto-saving together with main DAW software savings;
- more robust and debugged overall programming (maybe, a debugged 3.1d in some months and a 4.0 for the autumn...).

- IMHO, prioritize SFP 4.0 than developing new modules and synths...

Just my two cents for this Community.
Cheers,
Cochrane

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cochrane on 2004-02-12 03:50 ]</font>

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:07 am

From Creamware's perspective focusing all energy this year on delivering an update for an existing customerbase might still have to coincide with development of new synths/modules/products since that's going to be where the bulk of their income is derived from *off the existing userbase*. And I'm not sure that "New Version 4.0!" is going to sell people on Creamware cards any better than what they currently offer.

Just food for thought.

Oh, and I think that charging for the update isn't a great idea as they've set a great trend of free updates that shouldn't be stopped. Its one of the *major* things that people point out when discussing how Creamware's product has matured and since I have a Pulsar1 I've *DEFINATELY* appreciated the gains that I've gotten from software updates for a board that is nearing 5 years old now. So much so that I own every CW device except for ProOddysey (and quite a few 3rd party products too!)

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:53 am

Exactly my thoughts, Valis

On 2004-02-10 18:04, decimator wrote:
...In reality it will be indeed a nightmare for those who will dive in ( I'am planning to be in the " party " )

...I wouldn't be surprised after reading some posts that DP could be 10 times more complex to handle than Reaktor ( if that could be quantified )

...I read the doc was a 8 MB rar file... that should translate to 500 pages ++ just to start with !...

I slightly disagree: from usabilty it will be pretty easy and that documention might contain quite an amount of graphics

My concern is more in the direction of 'competence'.
It's more than just some knowledge about audio processing to make an instrument an instrument.
Adern, SpaceF, Wavelength and Zarg are excellent examples for this approach.

It may even be a significant sales argument to get people into '... you can do such pro devices, too' - and the answer is pretty clear, you'll get a response.
Those want their stuff out and frequently the most incompetent software is paired with the most stunning (and annoying) self confidence.

It was just so easy to rely on quality in the past

Obviously the risk has to be taken for the sake of not vanishing as the 'unknown', so I hope for a kind of quality label that reflects the degree of sophistication - and cannot be bought

I totally lack the math background for that stuff

so I wish you fun in advance

cheers, Tom

stronoff · Post by **stronoff** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:48 pm

On 2004-02-11 16:12, lore wrote:
i agree with a firewire expansion for the A16 ultra , it'll temporarely solve the osx lack for me. !!!!

This is what I mean. Creamware could do here something for the annoyed Mac - Users. But perhaps the Slot hasn't enough power for 16 audio channels to firewire. Otherwise I couldn't understand why the haven't done this yet.

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:44 pm

Well I hope the doc is better than the Reaktor one !

I expect way more atoms than Reaktor, more lower level ones : a real tight and deep professional tool.
Funny thing is that if I hadn't Reaktor, I wouldn't even remotely consider DP, the Reaktor users library is a huge pool of ideas and wirings, concepts and wild creativity ...
I don't intent to reinvent the wheel, I'd like primarily just to try to port & twist my fav Reaktor ensembles, those who are portable thanks to DSP consumption and atoms correspondance.
All those people create for free, fun, competition, the best ones are recruted by NI for premium library.

I checked recently, there's an average of one release + per day !! new players, levels rising but it just take years to build such a competent creators base and database of ideas so better start now at full speed !

There will be the confirmed players you quoted and a new bunch of excited people who will understand what natural selection means, I may be in the rejected part !

The positive aspect to focus on is that there will a growing number of freebies and new blood drawn in if at CWA, they put the widespead availability of DP as a fat " sticky " in the front page !!

Over the years, I've downloaded ( but not yet tried all ) hundreds of devices : Reaktor ensembles, Buzz machines, Synthedit, VSTi's ...

They keep improving and snowballing, I would like to see this on SFP even if there are inevitably non stellar creations in the process ...

I really imagine in some years, buying a CWA card is like buying Reaktor that gives you access to plenty of freebies and possibility to create + professional ensembles created by CWA and those who have paid the hard price for DP so that they can sell their fine creations that are with their knowledge and experience above the troopers ones ...

More later ...

Oh, I still bet an old shirt that the next chip will be the ADSP 21364 ! production in second half 2004 normally, nearly 10 times more powerful, 12 mm X 12 mm so smaller boards.

Good night to me !

sharcsound · Post by **sharcsound** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:42 am

It sounds like Pulsar boards could be upgraded to be 10 times better by just replacing the old Sharcs with the new one.

"The third generation of SHARC® Processors, which includes the ADSP-21262, ADSP-21266, ADSP-21267, ADSP-21364, and ADSP-21365, offers increased performance, audio and application-focused peripherals, and new memory configurations. All devices are pin-compatible and completely code-compatible with all prior SHARC Processors. These newest members of the SHARC Processor family are based on a single-instruction, multiple-data (SIMD) core, which supports both 32-bit fixed-point and 32-/40-bit floating-point arithmetic formats making them particularly suitable for high-end audio applications." http://www.analog.com/Analog_Root/produ ... 64,00.html

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:10 am

hi

mmmmh we need try yo replace

ale