MIDI thruput: MAC>DP>SFP

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:22 pm

Greetings All

and thanks in advance for your continual help.

I have a Mac G4 400 w/Pulsar II w/SFP and MOTU Digital Performer. My basic question is: how does SFP see the DP sequenced/MIDI outputs? Otherwise asked: How is the output of the sequencer connected to the SFP Sequence MIDI Input Module?

I have the routings window organized to have Sequencer MIDI patched to Blue Synth - MIDI channels matched to CH 1.

It seems as though it needs something like Rewire, but I can (so far) find nothing on this subject in the manual.

thanks again - I appreciate all input!

best regards

ed mann

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:09 pm

Hi Ed

I have no mac, nor DP, as I am a pc user with Cubase, but if it's the same, there are two modules, "Sequencer Midi Source" and "Sequencer Midi Destination"
In the SFP Routing window, that represent respectively the midi data from the Seq. app (source from the point of wiew of SFP) and the port to send midi data to the Seq. app (destination).

You should connect your midi keyboard signal coming from Pulsar2 Midi Source (card's midi input) to Sequencer Midi Dest for recording midi data, and Seq. Midi Source to your midi devices, like SFP synths, or external gear throug Pulsar2 Midi destination (card's midi out). This is enough if you have MIDI through activated in your sequencer. In Cubase I can assign the midi tracks to the CW midi drivers (Seq. Midi Source in SFP).

Everything should be well explained in the Manual, that I don't have under my eyes now, but if you have some problems don't hesitate to ask again and again...

I hope that some DP user sees the thread too, as it may have some specifical settings that i'm not aware of...

Ciao,

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:22 pm

Now I remember that for mac you had to run OMS software to configure Cubase's midi...and there is documentation about it in SFP manual, while in windows is not necessary...so check the manual in the "Integrating Recording Software" section (if I remember) should be all there...

OMS,here it is

http://www.gibson.com/OMS/OMS238.sit

[ This Message was edited by: alfonso on 2004-02-06 22:26 ]

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:51 am

thanks alfonso -

I am going to try the OMS thing today...but I was hoping to get the sequencer to speak to SFP internally - i.e. no phsycial connection from the MIDI Xrpess cox to the Pulsar II card (they are in the same computer)

is this possible? or does the Pulsar card work only w. physical MIDI i/o?

thanks very much!

Ed

Post by **hubird** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:54 am

Sequencer midi Source and idem Destinaion, like Alfonso said

check the menu 'Software In/Outs...

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:15 am

On 2004-02-07 08:54, hubird wrote:
Sequencer midi Source and idem Destinaion, like Alfonso said
check the menu 'Software In/Outs...

where is this menu hubird? - and/or which part of the manual? I am new to this but I did spend all day yesterday searching for the solution....and maybe I do not understand the structure of SFP. Does it go: MIDI controller>MIDI source>MIDI destination>Softsynth?

thanks - today is the day!

Ed

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:58 am

ed, it's more something like:

midi controller > physical midi input > 'pulsar midi source' > synth (for direct playing)
or
midi controller > input > pulsar midi source > sequencer midi destination (to record in/play through your sequencer. then, also in SFP: sequencer midi source > synth (to get the midi from your sequencer into SFP again).

the modules can be found at the top of the routing window under 'hardware i/o' and 'midi'. or in the live bar... but i only go there to load synths and change voice counts, mainly. (you could find them in the 'file browser' window as well, which is in the live bar under 'set')

_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2004-02-07 10:02 ]

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:12 am

ahh - I am distressed. I feel Quite Dense at this moment - I don't get it!

Is it that the physical MIDI input of the Pulsar II card is optional but not manditory?

It is hard for me to understand the MIDI signal flow - I would think that normally Seq. Destination would be if one were sending data TO the sequencer. What I am tryng to do initially is just play the CW softsynths as a thru put from the keyboard thru the seq MIDI routing into the SFP routing......

I have figured out all manner of software for decades - so I will get this one too - maybe it is just the peculiarities of the SFP platform? or is there a serious hole in my ability to comprehend?

I am printing all of your valuable responses and going into the studio now to figure This Out!

I was initally told that if I was not using the Pulsar MIDI input (physical) then OMS was not neccesary - still confused on this one...would definiely prefer to avoid OMS if possible

thanks everybody I appreciate your help!

Ed

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:17 am

perhaps this will help me:

what section of the manual is all this stuff located in? I found nothing in the MIDI MODULES sections - and only brief overview (but little softsynth MIDI routing info) in the CONNECTIONS and ROUTING sections of the manual

thanks again

Ed

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:43 pm

ed, it's in the i'/o and drivers' section of the pdf manual under 'midi'
but it won't be of a lot of help, i reckon. all what's in there has already been pointed out to you here.

maybe a screen shot wil do.
send me an email, and i'll send you a simple project in a reply...

and yes... if you want to use a midi sequencing program in the same machine as SFP, you'll need OMS, afaik.

_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2004-02-07 12:46 ]

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:48 pm

~*~*~*~*

I think I understand. One must use the physical MIDI i/o on the Pulsar card - correct?

that seems to be working easily

I was looking for internal MIDI routing from DP with it's MIDI interface. Now i am running a physical MIDI cable from the MIDI interface to the MIDI in on the Pulsar Card, and make the connections in the Routings window - and it all works.

thank you all for your time and help!

amd best wishes

ed

Post by **garyb** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:27 pm

Ed,the internal routing will work too(to the best of my knowledge).afaik you need oms to make it work though....

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:17 am

Hi,

In the evening (now it's 12.30PM here) I'll try to make a diagram/picture of connections you have to make (something like step by step instructions) so be patient. I have no DP but a part of the work is similar for all sequencers I belive

Answering your last question: you are not obliged to use the Pulsar midi port at all (I don't use it successfuly for 2 years or so)

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:41 am

I just discovered that many answers to these questions are in the RECORDING section of the manual. For me the problem is OMS - can't get it to recognize SFP as an internal device - and that is why I am using the physical MIDI input -

so thanks for the alert that this should not be neccesary -

When I find the solution I will post it for the benefit of the next SFP newbie using OMS..

thanks

Ed

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:10 am

If you want to use your MOTU midi express, Digital Performer together with Pulsar and its synths you need some preparations. I have to say I have no experience with Motu stuff and things related to it. I know that if you use a motu hw/sf you need FreeMidi tool. I hope I don't mess things? So tools you have to have are:

- a copy of OMS 2.3.8 (or 2.3.7)
- FreeMidi
- Creamware OMS Driver
- a proper Pulsar (SFP) project

OMS is something like ASIO but for midi flow in your computer. The same is with FreeMidi. Because there are no FreeMidi Creamware drivers you have to link the two apps (OMS<->FreeMidi) how to do it? There should be an explanation in the FreeMidi manual.

OMS if you don't have it I can send it to you. FreeMidi - you can get it from Motu's site. Creamware OMS driver is located in your SFP folder/driver folder.

-> Install OMS, place the CW OMS driver in [system folder/oms folder/]
-> Install FreeMidi
-> Now you have to read FreeMidi's manual because I don't know in what order you should prepare things. But probably you have to a) prepare an OMS setup which should look like this:

- detailed instructions on how to prepare an OMS setup is described here: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=3&15

-> Prepare a FreeMidi setup and make it OMS compatible (or similar, I don't really know, sorry)

It's possible you have to do last 2 things in other order (ie first freemidi setup, then oms setup) and then your oms setup should contain also a freemidi icon

-> Now that you have things prepared you should make a basic SFP project:

Of course modules depend on your card (in this example there is Pulsar1 analog output module)

If you don't use Pulsar's midi ports then the only connection with Pulsar synths is done via a sequencer, in your example - DP.

The way via DP is something what you do by phisical connecting the midi ports (MidiExpress to Pulsar board)

-> Open DP, choose your MidiExpress for midi input, CW midi as your output, record enable the audio inputs and voila!

-> If you don't want to the audio signal from SFP synths to come via digital performer, ie you want it to go directly to Pulsar's audi port then you have to do as in the following picture. But you have to remember that this way you are not able to master your whole mix in DP

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-02-08 10:14 ]

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:07 pm

Sir Sam! -

thank you for this splendid detail! I am trying your recommendations - still tweeking, but in the meantime I thought this may be worth mentioning:

Using OMS (no FreeMIDI), DP and SFP - I have made a bit more progress. I can run (trigger record and playback) SFP from the Sequencer (DP) w/o using the physical MIDI input - in OMS and DP, SFP is shown as CREAMWARE MIDI i/o 1-16 ...so that is cool (?)

However - in SFP there is no way (so far) that I can play a synth module w/o adding the PULSAR MIDI A module (physical i/o) to the ROUTING WINDOW, and connecting it to the SYNTH module, etc. This method does require a physical connection to the Pulsar MIDI input....

Under this configuration in SFP, SEQUENCER MIDI IN is not bringing MIDI data thru from DP.

I thought I could resolve this by enabling MIDI ECHO in DP, however that function is not apparent

So far I cannot get FreeMIDI and OMS to work together - but I am still tweeking - and given the example that I describe perhaps it is possible that I do not need FreeMIDI - what do you think?

thanks Sir Sam!

and best regards

Ed

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:30 pm

Using OMS (no FreeMIDI), DP and SFP - I have made a bit more progress. I can run (trigger record and playback) SFP from the Sequencer (DP) w/o using the physical MIDI input - in OMS and DP, SFP is shown as CREAMWARE MIDI i/o 1-16 ...so that is cool (?)

I guess guys at MOTU have changed their minds and enabled direct OMS using. It was the same when Emagic released their own plugins without VST compatibility - but after a period of time Logic became VST compatible. That's good and comfortable when you have to work in a configuration MOTU/non MOTU stuff. So I guess you don't need FreeMidi.

However - in SFP there is no way (so far) that I can play a synth module w/o adding the PULSAR MIDI A module (physical i/o) to the ROUTING WINDOW, and connecting it to the SYNTH module, etc. This method does require a physical connection to the Pulsar MIDI input....

As I understand - this is when you want to play an SFP synth without launching DP? In this case it is really imposible. Or is it when the front application is SFP and DP runs but in background? If the second then you have to set OMS to "run midi in background" you do it in OMS app, choose "oms midi setup" from edit menu and activate the feature.

I thought I could resolve this by enabling MIDI ECHO in DP, however that function is not apparent

I think it should be enabled (if it's the same as in Cubase - "play in background"

Hope this helps, please inform us about your progress as I'm very curious and impatient like a child

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-02-08 17:33 ]

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:23 pm

On 2004-02-08 17:30, samplaire wrote:

... Or is it when the front application is SFP and DP runs but in background? If the second then you have to set OMS to "run midi in background" you do it in OMS app, choose "oms midi setup" from edit menu and activate the feature.

cool sam - I have done this and the result is that a DP SEQUENCE will play/thru in the background (yeh!)with SFP as front app - just not the actual keyboard thru if SFP is front app...(strange)...

still I consider the problem 90% solved

your diagrams as per audio flow very useful

thanks very much -

Ed

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:22 am

P.S.
Sorry I can't solve the whole problem

edmann · Post by **edmann** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:12 am

On 2004-02-09 05:22, samplaire wrote:

P.S.
Sorry I can't solve the whole problem

Ahh Sir Sam Samplaire - do not be sorry, your contribution plus those of the others has taken my new Pulsar setup from a confusing not-working situation, to one that works! I am VERY happy -and I think this thread will be useful to the next SFP/MAC initiate.

I can think of no reason why the SEQUENCER would pass MIDI thru to SFP, play it in the background when it is recorded MIDI note, but not play-in-background with the sequencer in STOP position. So I think it must be something quirky about my setup - perhaps related to DP and/or OMS - I have never seen anything like this before. But I have experienced years of unexplainable OMS phenomenon, so I think it must be OMS voodoo. OMS will give me that functionality when it deems me ready for it, and for now I am paying a bit of OMS dues just so that it knows that I love it, since I abandoned it 3 years ago. It's OK - I have seen OMS do this before and it always comes around, it just gets moody.

But for now - I record simple single MIDI notes or a passage, loop it, and then tune the SFP synths with the MIDI passage playing back - not a big deal for now, and I can get to work. I am SURE that one day for no reason the keyboard-thru will just start working.

So - again - thank you and Andy and hubird and all the posters who contributed to this thread!

best wishes

Ed