2448/4896 have phase problem on aux !

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:10 am

Both of the high end consoles ave phase problem on their auxilliaries.
What is most interesting is that 1632 has not !!!
Anyone knows anything more ?
Dimitrios

EarlyFirst · Post by **EarlyFirst** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:09 am

just like in the real-world the effects chain can and will introduce slight delays( per effect/insert) so depending what you have on the aux's this could be the problem..
try putting MultiFX (insert loaders) on all
of them and see if it helps..

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:27 am

I have plain headphones monitoring, not effects.
So if I run a stereo mix on channels ,say 15 & 16 then when raising aux1 on both channels (15 & 16) the mono summing of aux 1 that feeds the headphones has phasing problems.
That is not true though if I use the aux 1 of 1632 console, there is a perfect mix of both channels to aux1 .
Interesting.
Dimitrios

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:24 pm

Is phase compensation enabled?

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:27 am

Yes ofcourse.
Phase compensation button is thefirst thing I look always.
Dimitrios

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:26 am

Ok,

Well, I really can't visualize in my head the practical problem here. Would you care to explain why you would do this and how it will affect things?

I think phase problems is a serious issue on all equipment, be it amateur or pro. That said, creamware should posibly have done more to correct theirs.

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:23 pm

The simple what I do is the following:
I am sending a a stereo mix from cubase thru ASIO2 floating to a Pulsar Mixer, say 2448.
The stereo mix of the song appears on channels 15&16 (L & R)
then the singer in order to perform hears a monomix in his headphones.
So I open AUX1 on channel 15 and AUX1 in channel 16. Then the phasing problem occurs.
You could say just to open either 15 or 16 on aux 1 ,but thats not what I would like to do.
I want it phase correct.
The 1632 mixer does not have this problem.
Dimitrios

Post by **garyb** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:18 pm

why not use either 15 or 16 as a stereo channel?why not use the monitor section?dunno about the phase issue as i never encountered it,but i would guess that system latency is to blame....

EarlyFirst · Post by **EarlyFirst** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:18 am

On 2004-01-11 10:27, musurgio wrote:
the mono summing of aux 1 that feeds the headphones has phasing problems.

Hmm interesting, did you happen to try the mono on the main out's to see if the Phase problems occurs ?

If so could be a problem in the mix itself, if not then try it with a stereo channel going to a mono aux..

PT

musurgio · Post by **musurgio** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:08 am

Yes I could try a stereo channel where I guess there would be no problem in my situation, but note that there is a PHASE problem on auxilliaries present on 2448 and 4896 consoles that is NOT on 1632 !
Imagine two microphones capturing a snare (not stereo) and using aux1 to monitor, there would be phasing problems again.
I believe this is a bug and should be fixed.
How doyou report a bug ?
Dimitrios

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:11 am

On 2004-01-14 02:08, musurgio wrote:
note that there is a PHASE problem on auxilliaries present on 2448 and 4896

A Micromixer with Phase enabled could merge Direct Outs of the 2 Channels. Then return the mix to a stereo channel on STM 2448/4896 and feed it to the singer...

The manual states there is phase compensation on the mixer's inputs, and talks of channels 1-24 or 1-48. It doesn't mention the Aux:

Note that precise phase alignment is often
achievable without explicitly activating
phase compensation, since channels are
inherently phase-aligned with one another
within specific groups in each mixer. In
the STM2448, these groups are: channels
1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12, 13-15, 16-18, 19-21
and 22-24. In the STM4896 they are
additionally: 25-48.

[Edit] The phasing happens on the summing bus for the Aux Send, right? To facilitate automation, I set up ASIO channels to send the Aux from the VST mixer to an SFP channel which pre-sends to the Aux effect. This would also fix the phasing problem you experience

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: at0mic on 2004-01-15 02:12 ]</font>