Mixers and Headphones

Astral Fridge Magnet · Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:44 pm

Hello,

This is not really Pulsar related, I am just hoping that some of you can give me your opinion(s) on:
a) What headphones would you recommend for mixing with? I have read the AKG 171 or 240 are very good. Quality is important but equally important is that they should not be "tiring" to listen to.

b)What mixer would you recommend? I of course want good quality with mic preamps ( they may come in handy) and I don't want to spend a lot of money. Preferably nothing over 250 Euros. I don't really need a lot of inputs. 4-8 would be enough. I basically just want to use it to control the levels on my Mackie monitors. I currently use an Alesis AI3 to get my signals into my Pulsar and the Pulsar outs are connected directly into my monitors. But I have occassionally pressed zero as a key command (for when I use Logic) but if I am not paying attention and my window is on Pulsar it has the effect of whacking up my mixer output to FULL VOLUME in a split second and the volume is the equivalent to a Jet plane taking off in your living room. Very unpleasant, especially at 3 o'clock in the morning!!!!!
So the mixer is to control my output levels better plus to serve as extra inputs should I need them.
While I am on the subject, how can I tell if I have damaged my speakers? I don't hear anything wrong with them, but who knows what long term damamge I may have done by doing what I have just described? The Mackies have some kind of overload protection, but is it really fast enough to respond?

Thanks in advance for your responses?

[ This Message was edited by: Weirdo The Weird on 2003-12-24 12:45 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:19 pm

AKG-270!
Best allround payable headphone you can get, it also has a closed cabinet.
I use it since 15 years, a year ago I bought the new model of it, after checking the market: it's still at the top.
Nice feature: if you don't have it on your head, no sound is coming out, so you never can blow the thing by accidently overdrive it on the mixer's phone out.

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-12-24 13:24 ]

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:20 pm

you can't go wrong with a small mackie mixer. i don't know the price of the real small ones, but they might be slightly over your budget. one of the smaller models is ca 350 euros. 6 channels, and these stupid but maybe at some time handy built in fx.
i have a mackie 1402vlz pro and have compared it to a similar behringer model... behringer makes excellent value for money, but hey... if you put the mic pre's high on your gottahave list, don't go for the behringer. noize gallore.

for the headphones... they're both listed at the same price. the 171 seems to my uneducated guess the better option if you need to record vocals/acc. instruments. as far as i can understand, they won't leak as much to the outside world as the 240. could be wrong, though.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:22 pm

I have the 240s, and they're really good. They have really natural sound that sounds like they're froma set of speakers. So in other words, you don't get that "right in your ear" effect that come from most headphones. The stereo imaging is subtle, like you'd expect from speakers. (as opposed to exaggerated stereo imaging from certain headphones) Listening fatigue is minimal. I can work on the 240 for a couple hours straight. (or more like 10 hours)

I'd warn you though, that the 240 has weak bass response. So you won't get too much definition on extreme low ends like 40 or 60hz. Response becomes accurate around 90 or 100-ish. I'd suppose this is pretty much a limitation of the headphone medium. But on the other hand, it'll give you a good idea of how the material may sound on a system that isn't too bass responsive.

One problem I had with 240 though, is that the plastic ring on the driver fell off in just a couple of months. Not that it's a permanent problem... I can fix it by snapping it back into place. But it falls of once in a little while. Other than that, the build is very sturdy and the chords are extremely durable.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-12-24 13:24 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:23 pm

Some good advice here, concise and clear:

Sorry not to build the link, I'm in a computer I don't know, ant the keyboard does not respond to me

Please, copy past it to your browser:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=h ... c_id=81059

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:28 pm

I won't even mention the B word around here. It's all cheap crap as far as I'm concerned.

A recent point in fact:

A musical associate purchased a Behringer keyboard amp (against my loud objections). He was happy with it until it blew up. The problem?

Their XLR direct line out didn't like to be connected to a mixer channel with phantom power applied. Can you imagine, in this day and age, someone designing a piece of gear with an XLR output that can't handle phantom power? What utter garbage.

You get what you pay for. Never forget that!

Other than that, I think Behringer makes great paperweights and boat anchors. I highly recommend their stuff for shooting practice.

Thanks and have a great holiday everyone!!

Astral Fridge Magnet · Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:12 pm

Hi Again,

Thanks for the responses so far. I have just read in the Dec 2003 edition of Sound On Sound that Open back headphones (such as AKG 240)usually provide the best quality for mixing, whereas closed back (such as AKG K270/1) is better for the studio floor as it prevents signal bleeding/leakage.
My question is this: I don't intend playing at loud volumes so would signal leakage be a problem with the 240s should I use them to monitor a vocal or acoustic take?
I also hear that the 270 , because they are closed can be tiring because of the nature of a closed set-up. True or false?
Finally is there much difference in quality between the two?

Thanks in Advance

P.S. Are Behringer mixers really that bad?

[ This Message was edited by: Weirdo The Weird on 2003-12-24 15:56 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:43 pm

the 270 has a bit better low freq. performance if I'm right, but check the specs.
In practice I don't have any problem with the closed system.
There are so many 'natural' moments you put the headphone off, I don't think it's that important.
What is important however is indeed the leakage of the sound if doing recordings with mics.
So what you choose -closed or half open- depends on what you plan to use it for

Eric Dahlberg · Post by **Eric Dahlberg** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:51 am

The Behringer mixers are less likely to blow up at any given moment because they're Mackie rip offs. Their stuff really isn't all that bad but I'll agree that they've made a lot of really stupid errors due to not putting enough into R&D. Of course, for your budget & relatively modest needs, you may as well play it safe & go with a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro.

Then again, are you really sure that you want to get a whole mixer for use as a volume control? You could get a truly audiophile-quality (which you couldn't say about a cheap mixer) volume attenuator from A Designs for less than $60.

jabney · Post by **jabney** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:00 am

Headphones: Try the Sony MDR-7506s. Closed-back and reasonably sensitive + pretty decent performance.

Mixer: I love Crest for absolute performance, but the Allen & Heath Mix Wizard series mixers don't sound bad at all in comparison. Whatever you do, try to get a mixer with at least dual swept midrange tone controls. Full parametric is probably overkill, while a single fixed-frequency mid-range control is almost guaranteed to be at the wrong frequency (Murphy's Law, ya know).

[ This Message was edited by: jabney on 2003-12-27 01:02 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:08 am

all my k240s are closed back.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:21 am

P.S. Are Behringer mixers really that bad?

[ This Message was edited by: Weirdo The Weird on 2003-12-24 15:56 ]

Yes, they really are!
I once got one of them at Sound Control in Glasgow, and... first of all, when I was already at home, the thing did not work properly. Then it felt real cheat. The knobs were very unstable and unprecise, the sound was horrible becouse of hiss and hum, and the EQs absolutely usless... Yes, they really are bad! Of course, I'm talking about their low end mixers, but hey, I small should not be BAD.

If you want so cheap and still very good quality mixers, get a MIDIMAN, they do quite good little mixers.

_________________
Music is the most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*

[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2003-12-27 08:24 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:03 pm

and mixing on headphones alone is NOT reccommended.there are possible phase issues one would never be aware of on headphones,ugly things that would only crop up when playing back on speakers......

the k240s are for tracking,though they are fairly accurate.the k240df (diffused field)claim to be to a european trade reference for reference monitors.....

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-12-27 14:06 ]

Canzerboy · Post by **Canzerboy** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:23 pm

I use AKG 501 for late night programming, and Sony MDR v700 for recording vocals and DJ-ing. The Sony's sit tightly closed around your ears and is very silent. The soundscape is not too great. Bass is good (maybe too good) but lack a bit of clarity in the high area. You will sweat your ears off if U use them for long periods (2-3 hours). AKG 501 is fairly open and superior soundquality when compared to closed ones. They are the best I've ever tried yet for studio mixing purposes. Very none "tiring"

For mixers I would go for:

Micro mixer-Mackie DFX6 6-Channel Mixer with Effects

Medium mixer-Mackie MS1402 VLZ Mikser

Recomended mixer-Yamaha 01V96 Digital mikser

Behringer is "fools gold", looks pretty amasing but when you put your hands on it.......what?.....why?......fuck?....ebay!

_________________
Why am I obsessed by this thing called music?

[ This Message was edited by: Canzerboy on 2003-12-27 19:24 ]

Eric Dahlberg · Post by **Eric Dahlberg** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:56 pm

Nestor, which Midiman mixers are you referring to?

While out of the scope of what we're talking about here, the Behringer digital mixer really is quite good. It's certainly worth the $999 it sells for & I know a studio that gets fantastic mixes with them. For small analog boards, I'd take an Allen & Heath or Spirit for sound quality & a Mackie for the lowest noise level.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:06 pm

Nestor was probably referíng to one of the Multimixers or Mixim-10, sold between $70-$200 and obviously not a product anymore (?).
They were said to have the same pres as their Audiobuddy micpre, which I found surprisingly good once in a big preamp comparison - if they didn't cheat

cheers, Tom

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:45 am

If you're willing to try something a little different (and as you are a CW user I suspect you are), you might check out the HFI-650LE from Ultrasone.

They make headphones that have drivers which are positioned in front of your ears instead of right over your eardrums.

I was pretty blown away by them... you really get a much more accurate sense of space than normal headphones.

Here's the website:
http://www.ultrasone.com/

Sam