Prodessey is available in Creamware Shop

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:57 am

What is it that you are dying to see released from Creamware? Do you want more focus on physical modeling? How about more development of sampling technologies? Lets hear some suggestions and ideas, and hopefully Creamware will be listening.

i'd like an upgrade for the STS and, like spirit said, something "new"... away from the recreation of old classics and the "normal" synthesis engine.
maybe something based on a "real" wavetable (not the waldorf or the lightwave one) - something with strings, piano, etc samples... maybe CW can sign a collaaboration with best service (or similar) to get some good akai samples and put toghether a synth like roland XV or korg triton with some unique characteristecs

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:31 pm

Yeah STS series need an overhaul

I own all of them (2000,3000,4000,5000), and you know what? I almost always use the old sample players from pulsar1!!! Go figures!

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:46 pm

Matthias,
i own Oddity and i'm going to be doing a side by side comparison. However, in the meantime could you explain how much detail you went into as i know the GMedia/Ohmforce guys spent a lot of time on theirs and this seems to have happened quite quickly after a recent thread on the z - were you already working on it? The sort of thing i'm thinking of is the duophonic mode, the odd legato when holding down four keys in monophonic mode, that sort of thing.

i really want to get this as i prefer using SFPi to VSTi, even though i already have Oddity i always liked the MkIII interface better, i'm assuming the modulation is like the MkIII PPC (ie. both affecting oscillators - missing on the MkII/Oddity). Plus this has built in effects.

i can't find the manual in the downloads section yet. Hhmm, i can feel a purchase and some new presets coming on.

i think this will be amazing on Noah too, imagine having MiniMax, Pro One and Prodyssey under your fingertips live. Billy Currie impressions here i come

i know this won't please the people who want a granular-destructomorpholigical-vector-transynth, but these old synths still have plenty of undiscovered country yet.

Mr A

(Just need an OB-Xa emulation and i'll be happy)

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-10-29 19:23 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:13 pm

OK i've been demoing this alongside Oddity. Here are some initial views:

Well i can't get these two to sound alike with the same settings, and as i haven't got a real Odyssey i can't say which is more accurate, Prodyssey does have that 'edgy' Odyssey sound though (with the effects off) and i do like the sound. i could see myself actually using both quite happily.

From what i can tell i don't think increasing polyphony to 2 gives that true Odyssey duophonic mode. An option on the Add page with Single/Duo/Poly modes would be nice and would erase any confusion.

The VCA Gain slider acts as a volume knob rather than that odd 'drone' thing of the original. i actually prefer this (ARP made synths without proper volume knobs - crazy!) but it isn't authentic. Again maybe an option on the second page to make it a drone for those that may use it - i don't think anyone ever did though. Apparently Joe Zawinul had to phone ARP to ask how to stop his 2600 making a sound because of this slider.

i think the GUI could be darker to contrast with the knobs better and be less textured. i like the Prodyssey's MkIII GUI better than the Oddity's MkII though.

i don't think the Wheel Mod goes as deep as the original's PPC Mod - it seems a bit tame (listen to Numan and Currie if you want to hear OTT Odyssey mod usage - great stuff). How about a bit more oomph. Oh and how about a nice rubber pad instead of a mod wheel, just for fun

That white wheel just looks horible.

The Odyssey's keyboard fault of it playing legato with four notes held down doesn't happen, again on the Add page you could have Retrig, Normal - which here is legato mode and ARP mode, which would be retrig with legato on holding four notes i believe.

Well that's all for now, my demo's about to run out so i have to decide whether to go for this soon with the intrductory offer.

Mr A

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-10-29 19:22 ]

menno · Post by **menno** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:48 pm

On 2003-10-29 12:31, marcuspocus wrote:
Yeah STS series need an overhaul

I own all of them (2000,3000,4000,5000), and you know what? I almost always use the old sample players from pulsar1!!! Go figures!

Hear Hear! CW pleeease do something about the STS samplers. I own em all too, some twice (must get round to selling those). I am really disappointed that so much innovation has been done on the synthesis side, and so little on the sampler side...

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:13 pm

There are also some flaws in the Surround Mixers which have got me all bothered.

Sam

Post by **hubird** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:23 pm

see where it comes from...
ARP
thanks to Chris who gave the homelink

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:45 pm

On 2003-10-29 12:31, marcuspocus wrote:
Yeah STS series need an overhaul

I own all of them (2000,3000,4000,5000), and you know what? I almost always use the old sample players from pulsar1!!! Go figures!

LOL

i do that as well
i would love it if you could modulate the sample start position

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:16 am

Our Prodyssey has some modifications for the reason of polyphony, which I think is an important point. The duophonic mode by splitting the oscillators had to be left away, the drone mode is no more available and the repeat mode had to be modified for that reason. Some might say the original modes were essential, I prefer to have polyphony. I mean we are keyboarders, right? If I wanted to play monophonically only, I could have stuck with my flute lessons in the kindergarden. We of course messured the modulation depth, but it is adjustable...see lower left corner on the second page of the device. We also think that some of the really nurdish stuff shouldn't be rebuilt, like the lfo not restarting after the fourth note, it simply makes no sence with polyphony. But all other aspects are modelled to greatest detail, the dsp modules weren't just taken from the shelf. When you compare our device to the oddity simply go for some fm on the oscillators and on the filter with high resonance, do this by using the S&H mixer with noise, and you'll hear the difference. The Oddity simply sounds blurred with these modulations, which certainly comes from slower calculation or in other words less accuracy of their algorithm. That's the point where you really need to compare. And if it feels right, it is right! And this feeling does not come from features like not restarting something after the fourth note. BTW we already had a proto when the oddity came out and Prodyssey really fits well into the Noah concept, so we saw no reason to stop.

Best, Matthias.

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:10 am

hi matthias, it's always good to see CW people here!
can you give us some clues about CW next moves and products??

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:00 am

Hi Bosone.

Not in detail, but I think it's no secret that we are working on bringing more synths to Noah.

Best, Matthias.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:56 am

one of the advantage of Prodissey is Polyphony of course, but also the Tempo syncs, which sound so much better than with the Oddity....
my 2 eurocents

darkbear · Post by **darkbear** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:00 am

You know what's my problem with all this marvellous emulations? the PRICE!!!!With a prodissey on my pulsar 1 i could have a very limited poly...If i want a wide sonic range i have to bought many synths (minimax, pro-one...)With 400€ j can bought a matrix 6, 6 voices of poly, multi 2, and the REAL ANALOGIC SOUND...So i have decided to stop to buy soft dsp synth...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:03 am

Mathias, if you're doing such interfaces with sliders, please invent a 'lock-device-in-place button', to make it useable with touch screens, too.
If a slider is slightly missed, then the whole thing gets pushed around

The sound quality is way beyond oddity imho, but I cannot comment if it's authentic.
To my ears the basic sound character of ProOne and Prodessey is very similiar, though.
If memory serves me right, I'd relate that to the different user interface approach.
Dunno which to get

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2003-10-30 07:06 ]

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:08 am

The basic quality of the OSCs and the filter of the original Pro One and Odyssey is indeed similar. But there are so many differences, it's hard to name them all. I'll try though. Simply try the OSCs in direct comparison. When you switch through the combinations of Pro One the levels change. This makes the Pro One OSCs pretty unique and does also affect the modulation possibilties of this synth.Not to forget the filter is also driven differently through this. The Odyssey OSCs first sound boring since they only have saw and pulse waves, but there are some specialities. The pulse width for example is only adjustable from 50 to 95% and if you modulate it with the lfo you'll hear that it stays in these limits, being full wave rectified at the 50% limit. This makes it also quite unique and adds especialy to pwm pads a certain flavour you won't get on other synths. Not to forget the ring modulation of this synth, which I love so much. Actually the ring modulation, even in the analog original, is done digitaly. Only the pulse waves are ringmodulated and they took a simple comparator which delivers a on/off-signals as a waveform. And guess what, it has awfull aliasing, but somehow it contributes beautifully to the whole sound! The noise part of the two synths is also very special. Every Pro One I got hands on had a quite whimsical noise, but when mixed with the triangle only it sounded just like it should. The noise from the Odyssey sounds great. Very distorted, very unique! The modulation part of both synths is also very different. Meanwhile I prefer the one from Odyssey because you can do really weird things with the sample&hold section. Try out sending the S&H mix to OSC 2 or the filter at high resonance and you know what I mean. Now you really see I could go on for ever with this. But what they both have in common is the high qualitiy algorithms which really bring you the sonic possibilities of true analog gear. And that's where after all these years of dull sounding synths you can (re-)discover new territories!

Best, Matthias.

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:59 am

On 2003-10-30 06:00, Matthias wrote:
Not in detail, but I think it's no secret that we are working on bringing more synths to Noah.
Best, Matthias.

Modular III, Flexor? PLEEEAASSSE!

A piano (both electric and acoustic), Good sampler(!)...

Do these and provide it with weighted keyboard and I'll throw all my other synths to thrashcan and buy two NOAHs!

Also, a sequencer (or even midi playback) would be wonderful bonus!

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:06 pm

A friend of mine recently got a Virus synth, which he swears by.

I haven't heard one myself, but would be interested if anybody here has one who could enlighten me further.

I think that a S/W version has been released for Pro Tools, so perhaps an SFP version?

Access's web site:

http://www.access-music.de/

Royston

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:31 pm

Royston,
this topic has been beaten to death already,
if you don't believe me run a search

Direct reason, i believe, that we won't see Virus for SFP is that Creamware cards use SHARC DSP chips, while both Virus and Pro Tools use Motorola DSPs.

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:45 pm

On 2003-10-29 23:45, Neutron wrote:

LOL i do that as well
i would love it if you could modulate the sample start position

YES!!!!!!!!! See my thread at:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... &forum=5&6

I can't find ANY software sampler for the PC that will do this in realtime within the context of my setup (Giga & MaxMSP need not apply)....

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:29 pm

Matthias wrote:

he duophonic mode by splitting the oscillators had to be left away

i still don't see why duo mode couldn't be incorporated in the single/poly switch, switching in a different 'circuit'. Personally i like mono synths mono - i rarely use MiniMax polyphonically - who needs 8-note bass chords? i use Oddity for screaming leads, so polyphony really isn't important (i have Prophet etc for that). Duo mode is great and was one of the things that set it apart from the Mini.

Also, like Oddity, i don't think that peculiar Odyssey portamento 'lag' has been emulated (my demo's run out so i can't check this) - maybe it can't be done, but i don't see why not.

i take your points about the other stuff (that VCA Gain thing was a pain to be honest), but i can't agree with you on the duo mode being left out. Oh, well - looks like Oddity is staying on my computer a little while longer.

Mr A

PS. i still think the GUI 'mottled' surface could be a little simpler too.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-10-30 15:48 ]