How to say goodbye to Mac OS 9.2.2 and hello to Windows XP?

Kay Fleming · Post by **Kay Fleming** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:56 am

Hi there!

I am quite familiar with the OSX-discussion, CM-insolvency issues etc. And thus, I think I'll have to retire my Mac, sell it, trash it or something else - a dual G4 450 MHz (gigabit model) running OS 9.2.2. I payed loads of money for it, yet I haven't even once been able to enjoy OS-X. It's really nothing but sad, so I'll jump right to my questions.

- I'm planning to install my PulsarII card in a Shuttle X, 3 GHz, 1.5 GB RAM, 120 GB S-ATA HD, Radeon 9600 Pro, running XP Home Edition, and cross-upgrade from my Mac-version of Cubase to a Windows-version of Cubase SX 2.0. And finally rewire my Reason 2.5. Wouldn't that be nice? Or what?

#1) Can I install the PulsarII card (app. 2 year old model, vers. 3.1 + ProPack) in the Shuttle? Is the card/SFP fully platform independent? As I recall it I bought a “Mac”-version of PulsarII, but I hope that you guys proove me wrong.

#2) Will I still be able to read my (Mac) Cubase song files on the Windows platform? And what about reading my (Mac) Pulsar setup-files? Will the ProPack still be functional?

#3) Does anyone of you enthusiasts have any experience with the Shuttle X as a "music workstation"? Recently I read an article about the Sonica mini Studio computer which is based on the Shuttle – however, the focus was on Pro Tools, i.e. not exactly info I could use right on.

#4) Isn't rewiring possible in Cubase SX 2.0 for Windows XP?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards
Kay Fleming
[http://www.pollyfonnik.mymusic.dk]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:09 am

Don't quite understand why you're switching platforms. i run OS9.2.2 on a 500MHz SP and i don't have any problems (except artistic ones). You feel you're missing out on OSX. But if you move to PC then you won't be using OSX anyway, so i don't get it. Are you under the impression that CreamWare aren't developing for the Mac? As far as everyone knows they are. An OSX version of SFP may be a little wait, but frankly OSX is still being developed it seems (hell you could barely use audio until Jaguar), so why the urgency - do you hate OS9.2.2 that much? How about making the best of your investment rather than looking to another machine for solutions.

Kay Fleming · Post by **Kay Fleming** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:55 am

Hi Mr. Arkardin!

Well, I get your point. However, I have been an enthusiastic Mac owner for six years now - but I do not have the patience anymore. I want to use the latest and the greatest hardware/software, and to me Creamware's intentions doesn't satisfy my needs.

To me it is a matter of creativity and productivity. For quite some time now the compatibility issues have had quite a negative impact on my creativity and productivity. That I must stop.

Are you able to answer any of my questions?

Thank you for your comments!
All the best
Kay Fleming

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:20 am

The Shuttle should be fine for the Pulsar as far as I know, but I have not had personal experience with it, so I can't say for sure.

I did hear about heat issues with the cases - they use heatpipe technology for cooling but with a Pulsar card inside as well as a Radeon it may be too much heat for the small case to dissipate properly.

I can't answer your Cubase question as I don't use it.

peace

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:28 am

1. I had my Pulsar II in my Mac. Switched it to my new PC. No problemo. Just download the SFP for PC at CWs site and off you go.

There might be a heat problem with the Shuttle though. I've heard concerns about this but nothing confirmed. And you'd better check that the cards physically fits in the Shuttle. Pulsar cards are quite big.

2. Yous hould be able to read Mac-Cubase files in the PC. Possibly there is some form of conversion program but i don't think so. This should'nt be a problem.
SFP files are platform independent. Just copy and go. The Propack is registered to the Card so no problemo on that part either.
All my SFP plugs works just as fine on the PC as they did on the Mac.

3. No personal experience. But watch out for heat build up. And what chipset do you plan to buy? Prefferably you should go for the i865 (Intel) or nForce2 (AMD). I think you should avoid the Sis chipset.

4. Not sure but i am pretty certain you can.
Why should'nt you?

Hope this helps.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:34 am

Hi pongcuter,
Hope you didn't think i was having a go, i was just hoping you might explain what problems you've had as i've never had any. Everyone works differently (i don't use Reason for instance), so is it just Rewire that's the problem?

Anyway, i've had projects from VST and SFP go PC to Mac and vice versa and never had a problem, so you shouldn't have to rebuild all you songs at least.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:37 am

Another reason to switch to a PC is that CW's cards won't work in the new G5. I still think that's horrible.

Shayne

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:41 am

Oh, and you can't have more than one card in the latest G4s, which means you'd be completely stuck in terms of upgrading! Yes, I think at this point using a CW card in a Mac is risky territory.

Cubase SX supports ReWire on the PC -- I've tried it myself with the demo. Also you shouldn't have any problem migrating your projects/devices to PC -- CW's stuff is cross-compatible.

Shayne

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:04 am

Actually the lowest model G5 1.6GHZ SP still comes with PCI slots according to the Apple Store http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects ... .2.0.0.1.0 Don't know if you can fit more than one CW card in though.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-09-12 12:05 ]

w_ellis · Post by **w_ellis** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:44 pm

Hi Kay,

I have a Shuttle PC (SB51G) that I'm typing this on in fact! I have to say that it's excellent as a 2nd PC for the lounge, but I wouldn't put my CW kit in it. Mainly because I couldn't, as it only has one PCI slot, but also for some of the reasons mentioned above.

Space is extremely tight inside the Shuttle box, as it is very small. This is fine for most uses, but quite often when people have experienced problems with reliability of their CW kit, heat is at the bottom of it.

The fan in the Shuttle case can vary its speed according to the system temperature. Mine runs at around 2000rpm a lot of the time, which means it's generally very quiet. However, when the fan's running at full speed (around 5-6000rpm) it is quite noisy and not ideal for a studio PC.

Do you actually need to save space, or is it a cosmetic thing? If it's not completely vital, then you will definitely benefit from having a more spacious case for putting CW cards in. There are some quite attractive full-size PC cases these days.

It's always possible you might want to add a second card at some point and you won't be able to do that if you get a Shuttle. Alternatively, of course, you could buy a Noah to expand it and make use of the numerous USB connections.

Anyway, if you need to know any more about the Shuttle cases, please feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Will

[ This Message was edited by: w_ellis on 2003-09-12 14:44 ]

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:22 pm

welcome home

xp pro is better than home edition. rewiring is 100% possible.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:55 pm

On 2003-09-12 12:04, Mr Arkadin wrote:
Actually the lowest model G5 1.6GHZ SP still comes with PCI slots according to the Apple Store

indeed, it's PCI, but it's 3.3 V and there we go again...

I ran into the same trap

cheers, Tom

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:28 pm

On 2003-09-12 11:37, Shayne White wrote:
Another reason to switch to a PC is that CW's cards won't work in the new G5. I still think that's horrible.

Shayne

I get so irritated when I read that "you can't upgrade this or that so switch to this". Why switch if the stuff works. I'm sure that most of us haven't even scratched the surface of what our respective systems can do, I know I haven't. Do you see me crying about the Apple buy of eMagic? I use Logic for PC and I know that there are workarounds for any bugs that may come up.

Sorry, had to get it out of my system...

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:26 pm

On 2003-09-12 09:28, jupiter8 wrote:
2. SFP files are platform independent. Just copy and go. The Propack is registered to the Card so no problemo on that part either.
All my SFP plugs works just as fine on the PC as they did on the Mac.

SFP files (projects) are not 2 way compatible: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 25&forum=1 . As for the devices/modules - yes, they are 100% compatible unless they are special PC installers (.exe files are not readable on Macs) but as you move from Mac to PC this problem is not yours.

The whole situation: I wouldn't exchange my G4 for even a decent PC. No real reasons but just a question of habit. Yes, I use a PC, too (XP) but only for internet work. I know it's not the kinda PC vs Mac war thread but... comparing the 2 computers: I had to reinstall XP 3 times while there is still the same OS 9.2.2 install in my Mac. No coment. After the last reinstall of XP I encountered the msblast worm in 10 minutes!!! Using my Mac I got 2 viruses in... 5 years!!! And the Mac is also an internet machine (though on different partition - which also is 2years old; I mean the install)

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2003-09-12 18:30 ]

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:23 pm

Pong,

Here's what I did:

I took my SP G4-500 and added a Powerlogix dual 1ghz card.

Maxed the RAM at 1.5 Gig

Added a second HD

Removed the Pulsar II and SRB cards

Installed OSX, Logic 6.x and bought a MOTU firewire interface to run via ADAT from the CW cards

Bought a cheap Dell Optiplex off of ebay.

Slapped the cards in the Dell

Re-formatted the drive, installed XP and SFP 3.1c

Voila! Now I get to keep my Mac as my primary sequencing / recording platform, and I have the PC as an external module. Works flawless.

I even bought a little KVM switch, and I can flip between the PC and the Mac with a simple key-combo. Very cool and it keeps me happy because I don't have to bitch at CW for not releasing SFP for OSX (like they announced they would in April)

If you want OSX and all the goodies that come with it - AND - you want SFP, this is currently the way to go about it.

If you don't mind giving up what you are familiar with (the Mac platform), then I am sure you can get a fine PC system that will meet your needs.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:14 am

Yeah, the upgarde cards which are coming these days are really good! They don't need any driver so they work as normal CPUs. Even our demanding CW cards work flawlessly is upgraded macs! Mine was G4/400 and now it's G4/800. I know the original G4/800 is 133MHz while mine refurbished G4/400 (now 800) is 100MHz but my computer comes with fast L3 cache which makes it comparable to original G4/800s and sometimes even faster! I also exchanged HD and graphic card. If you want faster comuter or even DP there are such possibilities. The SP cards are up to 1.4GHz (AFAIK it's comparable to Pentium 4/2.2GHz). CW will not drop Mac world, I belive - they invested in developing the platform till now so why throwing invested money?

Kay Fleming · Post by **Kay Fleming** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:24 am

Hi there!

Thanks to all of you! I am truly overwhelmed by the number of replies to my question and I thank you for your recommendations and your seriousness. Wow!

You know, I am not a technician, but a musician. A synthpop/sofistipop/electronica composer. So first and foremost I am into the music side of it. As to the IT/tech side of it I simply had to get the hang of it. A bare necessity. That's why I don't have the time or the energy - and the skills (!) - to deal with complex workarounds. However, I still find the Mac area extremely interesting (KeyNote and Bias Peak!). I have chosen the Mac because of the beauty of it. The design. The aestethics. It's musically inspiring to work with a machine that looks good and simply works! And for a long time now I haven't been able to all-round optimize my Mac! Because of the CW card...

When I read the last of your responses it hit me: "Maybe the problem is not my computer, maybe it's simply my Pulsar II card I'll have to get rid of"! I do have other synths and machines to back me up if it comes to that....

....Uhhh! Don't be angry now. Take it easy...

)

Is there any card out there (besides Pro Tools and the like...too pricey!) that matches the CW cards ???

If not (in your opinion): What is the main reason that you Mac users (OS 9.2.2) still hold on to your CW product? What is the CW force when compared to other suppliers on the market?

Thanks again!

All the best
Kay Fleming

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:56 am

If not (in your opinion): What is the main reason that you Mac users (OS 9.2.2) still hold on to your CW product?

The implication in this question is that all of us Mac users are in some way unhappy with either our CW cards or our Macs. i'm certainly not. i'm in no rush for OSX. OS9.2.2 works fine for me and i only have a 500MHz single processor (may do one of those Powerlogix upgrades soon), but i find that plenty with the SCOPE card doing most of the work (so little native these days...)

Not only does SFP sound good, i think has slightly quirkier devices than you'll ever see in things like Pro Tools.

i am like yourself in that i'm a computer technician second (that's why i got a Mac in the first place), so i have a working system i like why would i change? The music comes first and my system works. i'm using this thing till my cards die, regardless of what 'advances' come and go.

You haven't really explained what aspects of your OS9/CW setup you're having problems with. If it's ReWire not working and you need that, fine. If it's something else let's try and bash it out here before you go spending more money.

Pound for Pound (or Euro for Euro) i don't think there's any card that matches CW cards for sound quality+devices, some have very good sound quality but are just In/Out cards (RME), others have good effects (UAD-1, TC Powercore) but the synths/mixers/routing flexibility/quirky stuff, if you use them of course, really make these cards unique.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-09-13 11:02 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:00 pm

don't forget routing,there is no card which allows all this crazy routing ...

there is nothing else comparable for any amount of money,when the whole package is seen,unfortunately(or fortunately...).

you have a studio,yet you don't want to be a technician.the people who run studios are known as "technicians" and "engineers".maybe you know someone technically minded who want to engineer for you...maybe rather than MORE funtionality,you would want less,and then take your demos to a studio professional to finish them.this is a VERY legitimate type of behavior and no shame,i am not flaming you...

otherwise,cheer up!some hassle goes with the studio territory,most of it is learning the terminology and reading some manuals...

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:30 pm

On 2003-09-13 10:56, Mr Arkadin wrote:
The implication in this question is that all of us Mac users are in some way unhappy with either our CW cards or our Macs. i'm certainly not. i'm in no rush for OSX. OS9.2.2 works fine for me and i only have a 500MHz single processor (may do one of those Powerlogix upgrades soon), but i find that plenty with the SCOPE card doing most of the work (so little native these days...)

Not only does SFP sound good, i think has slightly quirkier devices than you'll ever see in things like Pro Tools.

i am like yourself in that i'm a computer technician second (that's why i got a Mac in the first place), so i have a working system i like why would i change? The music comes first and my system works. i'm using this thing till my cards die, regardless of what 'advances' come and go.

You haven't really explained what aspects of your OS9/CW setup you're having problems with. If it's ReWire not working and you need that, fine. If it's something else let's try and bash it out here before you go spending more money.

Pound for Pound (or Euro for Euro) i don't think there's any card that matches CW cards for sound quality+devices, some have very good sound quality but are just In/Out cards (RME), others have good effects (UAD-1, TC Powercore) but the synths/mixers/routing flexibility/quirky stuff, if you use them of course, really make these cards unique.

I fully agree with Mr Arkadin

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2003-09-14 17:31 ]