To Petal,
I am extremely sorry to hear about your mother, and as a 'believer' I wouldn't even begin to speculate on the whys/why-nots (although I know plenty who would). I myself do not pretend to understand God's ways: they are inscrutable. Anyone who claims to have the answers is most likely arrogant or deluded.
In my most humble opinion, the only truths that exist are in our own minds, we have to work out our own answers, nothing else matters. However, I think it is useful to have as much information as possible for this process. I personally have been indebted to people who have told me great inspiring experiences.. I am not sure I would like to go spouting my own spiritual experiences yet.. I am still learning. All I can say is that at one time I fought with God myself, and I now deeply regret doing so. My over-riding view on the matter is that it is always useful to keep an open mind on things.
peace
Constructive thread about God and related matters
One of my favourite books is H.G Wells' The Time Machine (oh what an appalling movie they made of it...).
In the far future the Earth is a perpetual summer garden, food bountiful on the trees, no wild animals, no snakes, no annoying insects and even the process of decay and putrefaction has been eliminated.
But in this world the more gentle surviving human strain, the Eloi, are basically idiots. They have no written language, no history, no tools, can't make fire, and have no purpose above simple pleasures.
This paradise has been created through countless generations of suffering and toil. The implication in it all is that it was the suffering and work and striving which makes us human.
The Morlocks, another human strain who have retained the use of machines, are depicted as far less than human despite advanced technical knowledge.
This book seems relevant here, especially its last line. The best last line I've ever read... The time traveller was given a flower by his gentle Eloi friend (who dies), and the last line is:
"And I have by me, for my comfort, two strange white flowers - shrivelled now, and brown and flat and brittle - to witness that even when mind and strength had gone, gratitude and a mutual tenderness still lived on in the heart of man."
In the far future the Earth is a perpetual summer garden, food bountiful on the trees, no wild animals, no snakes, no annoying insects and even the process of decay and putrefaction has been eliminated.
But in this world the more gentle surviving human strain, the Eloi, are basically idiots. They have no written language, no history, no tools, can't make fire, and have no purpose above simple pleasures.
This paradise has been created through countless generations of suffering and toil. The implication in it all is that it was the suffering and work and striving which makes us human.
The Morlocks, another human strain who have retained the use of machines, are depicted as far less than human despite advanced technical knowledge.
This book seems relevant here, especially its last line. The best last line I've ever read... The time traveller was given a flower by his gentle Eloi friend (who dies), and the last line is:
"And I have by me, for my comfort, two strange white flowers - shrivelled now, and brown and flat and brittle - to witness that even when mind and strength had gone, gratitude and a mutual tenderness still lived on in the heart of man."
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Nestor
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Everybody has the right to express themselves fully as long as there is sincerity and serious respect to each other, and of course, assuming that the conversation is truly constructive searching mutual understanding. Any comunity, as such, should be able to do this at its very least, if we were not capable of holding a sincere and clean conversation we would be very inmature people and so the conversation would be also totaly usless, because without sincerity and good will behind it, there is no such a thing as understanding.
I don't believe in discusion, but dialog. If we can build a constructive dialog, it doesn't matter what we talk about, the result will worth the try. Precopceptions of any kind are never a good point of depart for somebody looking to grow innerly. I don't feel having the right to ask Eliam nor Braincell to leave their thoughts closing their threads, I don't think I have the moral aothority to do so. I think they have the right to think as freely as they want to, of course, I have also to say they must entirely assume THEIR OWN RESPONSABILITY towards the feelings of their readers, whatever this may become by the end of the thread. Let people take their own responsability, if you don't you are refraning them from developing themselves, as you whould, not letting your child going up to a tree because of the danger he may fall down... but loosing the great advantage of developing his musles, personality and Spirit as a human being enjoying nature.
Nobody can determine what is good or what is bad for someone else... Good and Evil are extremely subjective views most of the time due to the fact that every single person is based on their own interest and subjective perceptions, so Good is what is CONVINIENT and Evil is what is NOT CONVINIENT in a given moment, when things turn to the opposite direction, good becomes evil and evil becomes good.
A topic by itself, can "never" be at blame, but us, people, cos topics do not develop by themselves..., we develop them writing.
Please, allow me to ask everybody before pressing your "Enter" key to post something, to be sure you are being sincere to yourself and us as well as respectful to everybody's way.
I would trully love to participate in such a deep conversation, as long as everybody would just completely let out all preconceptions, ideas, believes, non-believes, cultural backgrounds, traditions, religions, politics, own personality, frustrations and fears, other people throughts as being ours, economical status, nationality, etc., and because I know this is imposible, I will not participate nevertheles, I will rather c ontinue my own personal work over my own subjectivity, preconceptions, fears and frustrations, because my subjectivity is enormous andI have much work to do over myself.
If we were to be just as little children are, with no thoughts in our heads, with no preconcived ideas... just open to what is going on and very attentive to the new, we would just see "WHAT IT IS" as it is... If we were able to see each other eyes feeling happiness, just loosing ourselves within each other's nature as real friends, this conversations would probably not even need to take place, because we would feel intuitively what is goin on within such and such a person... If we could just sit down to watch without absolutely no preconceptions of any kind, life would speak by itself and nobody would neet so much thinking and speaking to reach such simple facts that are more than evident in nature.
Unfortunately, we are not like little children..., we are adults with hard cristalized minds, we tend to speak without thinking much about what we are saying and in the other hand, we do not leasten at all to what others may tell us.
Finally, I would like to say that you don't know the people behind thsi writings, so please, do not judge so easely each other before even getting to know each other in real life... You know very well it is very difficult to know oneself, so how much difficult would it be to know somebody else you don't see but as a virtual screen?
I don't believe in discusion, but dialog. If we can build a constructive dialog, it doesn't matter what we talk about, the result will worth the try. Precopceptions of any kind are never a good point of depart for somebody looking to grow innerly. I don't feel having the right to ask Eliam nor Braincell to leave their thoughts closing their threads, I don't think I have the moral aothority to do so. I think they have the right to think as freely as they want to, of course, I have also to say they must entirely assume THEIR OWN RESPONSABILITY towards the feelings of their readers, whatever this may become by the end of the thread. Let people take their own responsability, if you don't you are refraning them from developing themselves, as you whould, not letting your child going up to a tree because of the danger he may fall down... but loosing the great advantage of developing his musles, personality and Spirit as a human being enjoying nature.
Nobody can determine what is good or what is bad for someone else... Good and Evil are extremely subjective views most of the time due to the fact that every single person is based on their own interest and subjective perceptions, so Good is what is CONVINIENT and Evil is what is NOT CONVINIENT in a given moment, when things turn to the opposite direction, good becomes evil and evil becomes good.
A topic by itself, can "never" be at blame, but us, people, cos topics do not develop by themselves..., we develop them writing.
Please, allow me to ask everybody before pressing your "Enter" key to post something, to be sure you are being sincere to yourself and us as well as respectful to everybody's way.
I would trully love to participate in such a deep conversation, as long as everybody would just completely let out all preconceptions, ideas, believes, non-believes, cultural backgrounds, traditions, religions, politics, own personality, frustrations and fears, other people throughts as being ours, economical status, nationality, etc., and because I know this is imposible, I will not participate nevertheles, I will rather c ontinue my own personal work over my own subjectivity, preconceptions, fears and frustrations, because my subjectivity is enormous andI have much work to do over myself.
If we were to be just as little children are, with no thoughts in our heads, with no preconcived ideas... just open to what is going on and very attentive to the new, we would just see "WHAT IT IS" as it is... If we were able to see each other eyes feeling happiness, just loosing ourselves within each other's nature as real friends, this conversations would probably not even need to take place, because we would feel intuitively what is goin on within such and such a person... If we could just sit down to watch without absolutely no preconceptions of any kind, life would speak by itself and nobody would neet so much thinking and speaking to reach such simple facts that are more than evident in nature.
Unfortunately, we are not like little children..., we are adults with hard cristalized minds, we tend to speak without thinking much about what we are saying and in the other hand, we do not leasten at all to what others may tell us.
Finally, I would like to say that you don't know the people behind thsi writings, so please, do not judge so easely each other before even getting to know each other in real life... You know very well it is very difficult to know oneself, so how much difficult would it be to know somebody else you don't see but as a virtual screen?
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wavelength
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: wavelength devices
- Contact:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Ar ... mnpd6.html
http://www.kenschles.com/Books/GeometryWeb/GEssay.html
http://www.artandculture.com/arts/artist?artistId=1247
http://www.barnett.sk/software/sos/osho ... ligh02.htm
http://www.rscorporation.com/innocence_ ... orance.htm
http://www.ambedkar.org/News/Innocenceand.htm
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=innocence
http://www.baltimorenewchurch.org/pc/rsj64.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0729-12.htm
EDIT: these links are the (very) partial results of a "Google"-search on the subject of innocence that illustrates how wide-ranging thoughts about the subject are in today's world. words like innocence, truth, good, evil, law... are so personally and culturally-subjective that it seems near impossible to come to a global consesus on these issues.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-09 14:25 ]</font>
http://www.kenschles.com/Books/GeometryWeb/GEssay.html
http://www.artandculture.com/arts/artist?artistId=1247
http://www.barnett.sk/software/sos/osho ... ligh02.htm
http://www.rscorporation.com/innocence_ ... orance.htm
http://www.ambedkar.org/News/Innocenceand.htm
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=innocence
http://www.baltimorenewchurch.org/pc/rsj64.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0729-12.htm
EDIT: these links are the (very) partial results of a "Google"-search on the subject of innocence that illustrates how wide-ranging thoughts about the subject are in today's world. words like innocence, truth, good, evil, law... are so personally and culturally-subjective that it seems near impossible to come to a global consesus on these issues.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-09 14:25 ]</font>
To Nestor
While I mostly agree with your last post, there is a point that I want to clarify. It is about responsibility. This is an important subject, and I don't agree with you that someone is responsible for another person's reaction or attitude regarding one's belief or affirmation or whatever a person does. For sure, if someone is agressive, this person is partly responsible for stirring a conflict, if another picks it up. Even then both are responsible, not only the instigator, although he bears the respnosibility of starting it all.
However, what if someone peacefully states a point of view and the Love which radiates stirs up hatred within someone else? This happens quite often, unfortunately. Then, in no way is the peaceful person responsible for the other's reaction. I started this thread out of true sincere positive intent, so my job is to keep myself harmonious first, and do the best I can to keep the dialog positive. Out of these bounds I have no power to impell people to stay peaceful for it is their own divine juridiction! I'll try with all I am, rest assured of that!
So, the all important thing is to share peacefully and not to get on each other's nerves!
Now, I'd like to say a simple thing, which you might accept or not, for you are beings of free will. In all the intellectual and emotional maelstrom which is whirling around us -and sometimes inside, we often come to believe that everything is relative and that the truth varies from time to time, person to person, and so on. Such is not the case, my friends, because if we are all different in form, personality and capabilities, we are all existing under and within a definite, changeless, eternal and absolute set of laws which govern the whole universe, visible or invisible, known or unknown, and there is no exception whatsoever althrough the infinite manifestations. These laws are often refered as the Cosmic Law. Why do so few know about these Laws? In fact, we all know about them, even if we are not outwardly aware of it. The reason why no more people know about it is quite simple: if one doesn't know that thing exists or plainly refuses the possibility of a Higher Universal Understanding, how will this person ever seek It, let alone find it?
While I mostly agree with your last post, there is a point that I want to clarify. It is about responsibility. This is an important subject, and I don't agree with you that someone is responsible for another person's reaction or attitude regarding one's belief or affirmation or whatever a person does. For sure, if someone is agressive, this person is partly responsible for stirring a conflict, if another picks it up. Even then both are responsible, not only the instigator, although he bears the respnosibility of starting it all.
However, what if someone peacefully states a point of view and the Love which radiates stirs up hatred within someone else? This happens quite often, unfortunately. Then, in no way is the peaceful person responsible for the other's reaction. I started this thread out of true sincere positive intent, so my job is to keep myself harmonious first, and do the best I can to keep the dialog positive. Out of these bounds I have no power to impell people to stay peaceful for it is their own divine juridiction! I'll try with all I am, rest assured of that!
So, the all important thing is to share peacefully and not to get on each other's nerves!
Now, I'd like to say a simple thing, which you might accept or not, for you are beings of free will. In all the intellectual and emotional maelstrom which is whirling around us -and sometimes inside, we often come to believe that everything is relative and that the truth varies from time to time, person to person, and so on. Such is not the case, my friends, because if we are all different in form, personality and capabilities, we are all existing under and within a definite, changeless, eternal and absolute set of laws which govern the whole universe, visible or invisible, known or unknown, and there is no exception whatsoever althrough the infinite manifestations. These laws are often refered as the Cosmic Law. Why do so few know about these Laws? In fact, we all know about them, even if we are not outwardly aware of it. The reason why no more people know about it is quite simple: if one doesn't know that thing exists or plainly refuses the possibility of a Higher Universal Understanding, how will this person ever seek It, let alone find it?
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wavelength
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http://www.fmbr.org/cosmiclaw/On 2003-09-08 19:55, eliam wrote:
Now, I'd like to say a simple thing, which you might accept or not, for you are beings of free will. In all the intellectual and emotional maelstrom which is whirling around us -and sometimes inside, we often come to believe that everything is relative and that the truth varies from time to time, person to person, and so on. Such is not the case, my friends, because if we are all different in form, personality and capabilities, we are all existing under and within a definite, changeless, eternal and absolute set of laws which govern the whole universe, visible or invisible, known or unknown, and there is no exception whatsoever althrough the infinite manifestations. These laws are often refered as the Cosmic Law. Why do so few know about these Laws? In fact, we all know about them, even if we are not outwardly aware of it. The reason why no more people know about it is quite simple: if one doesn't know that thing exists or plainly refuses the possibility of a Higher Universal Understanding, how will this person ever seek It, let alone find it?
Thanks for the link, Wavelength, but the Cosmic Law's explanation I'm refering to is not in an occult or metaphysical line of thought. It is cosmic in the fact that it transcends in scope our planet and system, but it is of a nature which is quite practical, simple, and easy to apply in our daily lives.
There are thousands and perhaps millions of books written on that, and perhaps as many interpretations, translations and distortions of these various theories. This is not theory that I'm talking about, nor interpretation, nor extrapolation. It is the pure, unadulterated, free of human distortion and definitive Law of Cosmic Divine order for us here in the physical octave. Does it seem pretentious? It can sound like that, but it truly is not my intent to pretend anything, only to share peacefully as I said before.
There are thousands and perhaps millions of books written on that, and perhaps as many interpretations, translations and distortions of these various theories. This is not theory that I'm talking about, nor interpretation, nor extrapolation. It is the pure, unadulterated, free of human distortion and definitive Law of Cosmic Divine order for us here in the physical octave. Does it seem pretentious? It can sound like that, but it truly is not my intent to pretend anything, only to share peacefully as I said before.
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wavelength
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On 2003-09-08 21:05, eliam wrote:
Thanks for the link, Wavelength, but the Cosmic Law's explanation I'm refering to is not in an occult or metaphysical line of thought. It is cosmic in the fact that it transcends in scope our planet and system, but it is of a nature which is quite practical, simple, and easy to apply in our daily lives.
There are thousands and perhaps millions of books written on that, and perhaps as many interpretations, translations and distortions of these various theories. This is not theory that I'm talking about, nor interpretation, nor extrapolation. It is the pure, unadulterated, free of human distortion and definitive Law of Cosmic Divine order for us here in the physical octave. Does it seem pretentious? It can sound like that, but it truly is not my intent to pretend anything, only to share peacefully as I said before.
you see, your pomposity is offending me already!
what, exactly, do you consider to be "occult"? (it is a very loaded word, these days)
how can anything that we as humans percieve be free from "human distortion"?
everything that you said in your post is a contradiction... you have a "theory and interpretation" of the world we live in, yet you try to present it as some kind of fact or "law".
physical octave?
how is any discussion in these matters not metaphysical in nature?
it would seem that you are not wanting to discuss anything, but rather just clue us all in...
this is what i was talking about upon getting into this discussion, if the discussion is to happen at all, then one has to be open to other interpretations (the world is littered with them). an open discussion of God and Faith has to be somewhat secular to be of any use.
one must word things carefully: "i see things this way" and not "this is the way it is"... or what is there to discuss?
i end with some "occult" thinking:
Dalai Lama (Tenzin Gyatso)
“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.”
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-08 23:44 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-08 23:45 ]</font>
Thanks for replying in words and not links!
I did not mean to hastily categorize the book which you pointed at, it's just that the little that I saw of it just reminded me of many other esoteric "metaphysic" books, which might contain useful things but in the end are so full of so many things that it confuses the mind more than clarifying anything. Now, as I said, I did not dig very deep into it so I might be mistaken about this one, so I'm sorry if I sounded harsh or radical. It's just that it seemed to have little to do with the point I'm trying to make, except the title. It is true that these terms, "metaphysic", "occult", etc are quite misleading... To me they just refer to certain teachings which may contain partial truths but often slip into a terminology and a discourse which is easily misleading and partial. I've read hundreds of them in my researches, and I don't criticize these here, just say my point of view...
Please, I'm not into the business of converting anyone here, can everyone understand that...? I've been seeking some understanding about Life for many years, and yes, I can say that I found what I've been looking for for the past 100 or 1000 lives! Does that offend you that I state what I found as "the" Truth? And what if it was? If you can't bear the certainty with which I speak about the Cosmic Law that I found, then by all means don't get too involved in a discussion with me because you won't find my assurance bearable.
And if no one shows interest in these matters, I won't go any further, I do this just to share with my brothers of PlanetZ the gems that I found, that's all!
edit: the statement from the Dalai Lama is superb!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2003-09-09 00:20 ]</font>
I did not mean to hastily categorize the book which you pointed at, it's just that the little that I saw of it just reminded me of many other esoteric "metaphysic" books, which might contain useful things but in the end are so full of so many things that it confuses the mind more than clarifying anything. Now, as I said, I did not dig very deep into it so I might be mistaken about this one, so I'm sorry if I sounded harsh or radical. It's just that it seemed to have little to do with the point I'm trying to make, except the title. It is true that these terms, "metaphysic", "occult", etc are quite misleading... To me they just refer to certain teachings which may contain partial truths but often slip into a terminology and a discourse which is easily misleading and partial. I've read hundreds of them in my researches, and I don't criticize these here, just say my point of view...
Please, I'm not into the business of converting anyone here, can everyone understand that...? I've been seeking some understanding about Life for many years, and yes, I can say that I found what I've been looking for for the past 100 or 1000 lives! Does that offend you that I state what I found as "the" Truth? And what if it was? If you can't bear the certainty with which I speak about the Cosmic Law that I found, then by all means don't get too involved in a discussion with me because you won't find my assurance bearable.
And if no one shows interest in these matters, I won't go any further, I do this just to share with my brothers of PlanetZ the gems that I found, that's all!
edit: the statement from the Dalai Lama is superb!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2003-09-09 00:20 ]</font>
The Dalai Lama quote is a great one, and in essence it is not removed from true Christianity... if you think about the lost gospels of Jesus, for example.. I forget what the origin was (I think the Dead Sea scrolls, I'm not sure about this, please someone clarify for me if I'm wrong).. but it was most recently brought up in the film 'Stigmata' - to paraphrase, "The kingdom of heaven resides within you, not within walls of stone..."
The idea is also apparent in Martin Scorsese's 'The Last Temptation of Christ' - "God is within you, the devil is all around you."
Just goes to show that it's all about interpretation and what you make of the knowledge you have. All the religion in the world won't save you if your heart is filled with hate. The thing I have tried to reiterate all along in this debate is the fact that you cannot equate spirituality to socio-religious constructs throughout history, and the things that humans have done 'because of them'.
And if we are going to start talking about reading matter, I suggest reading some Dostoevsky (in particular his last book 'The Brothers Karamazov') - he is a true thinker and philosopher who exposes and destroys all the simplistic and reactionary modern 'philosophical' attitudes and arguments towards God and religion.
peace
The idea is also apparent in Martin Scorsese's 'The Last Temptation of Christ' - "God is within you, the devil is all around you."
Just goes to show that it's all about interpretation and what you make of the knowledge you have. All the religion in the world won't save you if your heart is filled with hate. The thing I have tried to reiterate all along in this debate is the fact that you cannot equate spirituality to socio-religious constructs throughout history, and the things that humans have done 'because of them'.
And if we are going to start talking about reading matter, I suggest reading some Dostoevsky (in particular his last book 'The Brothers Karamazov') - he is a true thinker and philosopher who exposes and destroys all the simplistic and reactionary modern 'philosophical' attitudes and arguments towards God and religion.
peace
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wavelength
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the quote that i had previously associated with your comments was the first page in a "Google"-search. this demonstrates a "popular" view on the subject-matter (although the metaphysical world seems hardly a democracyOn 2003-09-08 19:55, eliam wrote:
These laws are often refered as the Cosmic Law. Why do so few know about these Laws? In fact, we all know about them, even if we are not outwardly aware of it. The reason why no more people know about it is quite simple: if one doesn't know that thing exists or plainly refuses the possibility of a Higher Universal Understanding, how will this person ever seek It, let alone find it?
)... could help explain why people haven't heard of "your" version, but most importantly, in the context of what you are saying, shows my other previous main point: we can use the SAME words and mean different things.I couldn't deny what you say. But what I'm refering to are not the two words "Cosmic Law" but include also what they mean in my perspective. As I said, everyone knows all about them, what's uncommon is to have the complete explanation laid down in a clear, unambiguous and definite way. This, to my knowledge, can be found in one place in the physical world (or octave).
And by the way, what I had not the opportunity to explain yet is not "my" thing or "my Cosmic Law", I merely repeat it when I can, but it is universal and well known in certain circles.
Anyway, I don't know why you argue while you simply don't know what I'm talking about in the first place... I don't mind though, I'm not here to convince nor gratify myself in any way, but to be with my friends...
Be at peace
And by the way, what I had not the opportunity to explain yet is not "my" thing or "my Cosmic Law", I merely repeat it when I can, but it is universal and well known in certain circles.
Anyway, I don't know why you argue while you simply don't know what I'm talking about in the first place... I don't mind though, I'm not here to convince nor gratify myself in any way, but to be with my friends...
Be at peace
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wavelength
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yes, much has recently been said about the "Buddha" in Jesus (the parallels in their teachings)...On 2003-09-09 10:51, dArKr3zIn wrote:
The Dalai Lama quote is a great one, and in essence it is not removed from true Christianity... if you think about the lost gospels of Jesus, for example.. I forget what the origin was (I think the Dead Sea scrolls, I'm not sure about this, please someone clarify for me if I'm wrong).. but it was most recently brought up in the film 'Stigmata' - to paraphrase, "The kingdom of heaven resides within you, not within walls of stone..."
The idea is also apparent in Martin Scorsese's 'The Last Temptation of Christ' - "God is within you, the devil is all around you."
Just goes to show that it's all about interpretation and what you make of the knowledge you have. All the religion in the world won't save you if your heart is filled with hate. The thing I have tried to reiterate all along in this debate is the fact that you cannot equate spirituality to socio-religious constructs throughout history, and the things that humans have done 'because of them'.
And if we are going to start talking about reading matter, I suggest reading some Dostoevsky (in particular his last book 'The Brothers Karamazov') - he is a true thinker and philosopher who exposes and destroys all the simplistic and reactionary modern 'philosophical' attitudes and arguments towards God and religion.
peace
it has long been a sad fact that some of the most un-Jesus-like people that i have come-across were "hardcore" Christians (judgemental, hypocritical, condescending, power-mongering)... this seems almost a cliche, these days! this is, of course, not limited to Christianity.
to me, organized religion in today's world (and yesterdays) has as much to do with knowing God as the "Coalition" invasion of -*insert country here*- had to do with helping -*insert oppressed people here*-. it's power and money, baby! sure religions do good things, but so does the "Coalition", as long as you agree with them
and fall in-line! this isn't necessarily the fault of any given Faith, but simply a bi-product of the few having sway over the many... it seems to me that if we are to move forward into this global-village we are currently stumbling into, we will need to put down our books for a sec (but not burn them!), take off our hats and symbol-jewelry, look away from the sky and look up from the ground to see ourselves as what we truly are... the same. and God(s) will be there (unless you are an Atheist and then God will still be there but you will see it as something else).btw, it might be dangerous to quote Hollywood on matters of Faith
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wavelength
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but you haven't clearly laid this out and nobody is going to be able to guess your perspective. you have been fairly vague about your take on this Cosmic Law stuff, only hinting at what it isn't and something about them being "definite, changeless, eternal and absolute"... but nothing about the actual "laws", in question.On 2003-09-09 15:03, eliam wrote:
I couldn't deny what you say. But what I'm refering to are not the two words "Cosmic Law" but include also what they mean in my perspective.
... still waiting...As I said, everyone knows all about them, what's uncommon is to have the complete explanation laid down in a clear, unambiguous and definite way.
by "your" i mean what "you" are currently talking about... not implying that it is "your own" ideaThis, to my knowledge, can be found in one place in the physical world (or octave).
And by the way, what I had not the opportunity to explain yet is not "my" thing or "my Cosmic Law", I merely repeat it when I can, but it is universal and well known in certain circles.
. btw, how can something "universal" be known well in certain circles? curious...ahhhh, more pleasant, sugary condescention. perhaps i do know what you are talking about, but choose to disagree? as for the peace part, i work on it every day.Anyway, I don't know why you argue while you simply don't know what I'm talking about in the first place... I don't mind though, I'm not here to convince nor gratify myself in any way, but to be with my friends...
Be at peace
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wavelength on 2003-09-09 15:41 ]</font>
You know, I'm very open to share my perspective, but not in any climate, only if I feel welcomed to do so, otherwise I'd feel like imposing and maybe annoying other people, which I do not want to do.
I give hints, but if no one picks them up, I won't insist.
You say "we're still waiting", but no one manifested that they were interested in what I have to share, even slightly, so how could I know that I'm welcome to speak up and that anyone is "waiting" to hear what I have to say? Before you mentioned it I had no clue that anyone was wxpecting me to explain anything about the grand statements that I issued. Of course, I don't take that personal!!!
Look, I'm not being picky here, I'm just polite! I won't intrude, I won't get into explanations unless I feel the openness in others and a friendly climate, which has yet to fully manifest here, imo. The vibe is quite all right, but I still don't really feel the "brother, if you have something great to share with us, let us hear it whenever you're ready!" vibe...
But there's no hurry!
Happy to hear that you're working to be at peace!
I give hints, but if no one picks them up, I won't insist.
You say "we're still waiting", but no one manifested that they were interested in what I have to share, even slightly, so how could I know that I'm welcome to speak up and that anyone is "waiting" to hear what I have to say? Before you mentioned it I had no clue that anyone was wxpecting me to explain anything about the grand statements that I issued. Of course, I don't take that personal!!!
Look, I'm not being picky here, I'm just polite! I won't intrude, I won't get into explanations unless I feel the openness in others and a friendly climate, which has yet to fully manifest here, imo. The vibe is quite all right, but I still don't really feel the "brother, if you have something great to share with us, let us hear it whenever you're ready!" vibe...
But there's no hurry!
Happy to hear that you're working to be at peace!