Rendering in SX and I/O cards question

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Sun May 04, 2003 6:11 am

Hi,

Finally I read the manual (after beeing pointed to it I have to agree, sorry for that) and found out there's no render fuctionality when using xtc mode on i/o equipped CW cards.

The question that rises here though is: "Would adding a genuine xtc card to the setup eleminate this 'problem'? or does the whole system have to be 'xtc only'?

Any ideas, suggestions appreciated!

PEACE!

MG

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:58 pm

Hello!

In XTC Mode, you cannot render audio, no matter if you have an XTC card or a Pulsar/Luna/Scope card. The only way to do it is to re-record in a new channel the audio+xtc effects/instruments.
Hope this answers your question.

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Sun May 04, 2003 6:05 pm

Thanks for your answer.

Guess Creamware is not for me.

Though I still find it all pretty strange.

(From CW's website)

---begin quote

Pulsar XTC gives you a collection of superior-quality effects processors and outstanding instruments - all fully integrated into your favourite VST-compatible program. These tools operate just like normal VST plug-ins, but place no additional load on your computer. All computation is handled by the DSPs on the Pulsar board. Pure power and inspiration!"

---end quote

With normal vst plugins it's possible to File, export, audio mixdown, in Cubase SX.

PEACE!

MG (soon to be an ex Creamware user)

[ This Message was edited by: MarcelG on 2003-05-04 20:38 ]

mano · Post by **mano** » Mon May 05, 2003 10:30 pm

they definitely need to get this feature in

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Mon May 05, 2003 11:06 pm

The major advantage of exporting audio is speed. Upon export, your system is on full load. It processes as fast as it can. Wouldn't make *any* sense to export XTC, they'd have to make pulsar variable clock for example. This is very unlikely to happen!

If Pulsar stays at the same samplerate, you don't gain time. Recording would go at same speed as exporting: ie. at 44.100 samples per second.

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Tue May 06, 2003 8:15 am

Let's do some maths...

Let's say I record a 30 track song (5 minutes), 15 tracks are xtc powered. Normally I would hit File, Export, Audiomixdown and voila I got a stereo wave file.

In the case of re-recording to another track I need to record the 15 tracks first. And that's a hell of a job if it's not 10 second loops you're using, but a riff with continous variation. (5 x 15 minutes = 75 minutes)

I always send out my 'raw' track to my partner in this music thing and he tells me to change 5 sounds and tweak 2 more. And again it's on. (7 x 5 = 35 minutes)

Second time around it's 3 changes. (3 x 5 = 15 minutes)

75 + 35 + 15 = 125 minutes (more than 2 hours) on a project. In my dictionary that a lot of time!!

And I don't even wanna think about having used xtc plugs for insert. (30 x 5) and that 3 times.

So common, don't say it wouldn't be a timesaver because that's plain BS.

And it's a pitty a card which costs that much is beeing made by such hobyists. Sure these Creamware cards have a lot of potential, but as VST accelerator they're completely worthless. And I still don't get the point how they dare to sell and market it like that...

MG (Searching the UAD-1 route)

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:13 am

Ok, imagine a super dooper big pro sounds system, which happen to have some synth in it, something let's say like protools...

Can you render this?

NO, XTC can't either, for the same reasons...

That's it!

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-05-06 10:15 ]

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:55 am

I get the point....

You don't need it to work....

BTW: I don't (want to) use Pro Tools I just want my Creamware card in Cubase (to Quote from the CW site) to "operate just like normal VST plug-ins, but place no additional load on your computer"

That's it...

[ This Message was edited by: MarcelG on 2003-05-06 11:00 ]

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:08 am

marcelIg
in xtc mode you can mixdown in real time all of your 30 tracks in one time . no need to do tracks by tracks . in the case you have not enough dsp to play the 15 xtc powered tracks (xtc intruments .. ) . yes, you have to bounce . but you can do it in the recording process ( tracks by track ) . just like vsti . If you use too much vsti you can't listen to the result in real time so you have to convert some tracks in audio ( you are right the offline process take less time ) . and on this track you can use vst Fx or xtc fx as as this process free up some dsp or native ressource.
but it's not really time consuming as in the mixing process you listen many many many time the parts etc .. is listen to is time consuming ?
so I wonder if the other dsp card (tc,uad) ar able to do the offline mixdown ?

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Thu May 08, 2003 3:27 am

UAD-1 does it. Confirmed...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu May 08, 2003 3:52 am

Have a look at this :

http://www.bombfactory.com/news/ua.asp

mano · Post by **mano** » Thu May 08, 2003 6:38 pm

It is just not convenient to have to add an insert, a new track, record to it etc when all you want to do is RIGHT CLICK > PLUGINS > VINCO S - I do this all the time with VST and DX plugins. I right-click on audio tracks, pick effects (non pulsar), hit PROCESS and it works great.

It is mentioned above that technically it may not be possible to render "faster" - Slow is fine with me - as long as I get the click + process workflow on pulsar plugins.

[ This Message was edited by: mano1.com on 2003-05-08 19:43 ]

janila · Post by **janila** » Fri May 09, 2003 8:38 am

On 2003-05-08 04:52, marcuspocus wrote:
Have a look at this :

http://www.bombfactory.com/news/ua.asp

How low can you go? Happily I don't own any bombfactory stuff and I know I'm not going to...

MarcelG · Post by **MarcelG** » Fri May 09, 2003 8:57 am

Only thing on mixdown in the linked article: "In CubaseSL it happens during tracking but also during offline mixdown" (freezing the system is what they talk about)

1 At least it has the possibility to render offline

2 It's about an older software version.

So, besides you trying to be up in Creamware's ***, I don't get the point.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:22 am

I had no point...

Was for you to have a look...

That's all, a look, at others problems, to see that even if they say that offline rendering is possible, they still can't do it correctly either, you have to deactivate everything else for this one track to render itself, it's even longer than doing the recording of it...

That also, i saw that they have MORE problem thean us, an btw, i don't even know what is bomb factory. Well, i guess it's a plugin for this card, but ?

Anyway, whatever you want, one thing for for, xtc doesn't 'render to disk' like this...

To bad, i'd like it too, but it is just not possible.

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:25 am

it would be possible if the xtc plug ins had their vst/directx coded clone . so in real time you could use the dsp power with the sfp coded plug-in and in offline the process use the vst/directx coded plug ins . Creamware has to do a native version of all their plug ins ....

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:21 am

*chuckle*

peace

spiderman · Post by **spiderman** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:41 am

I think it's the only way .. I'm pretty sure the UAD work like this.
is there some UAD users here ???

[ This Message was edited by: spiderman on 2003-05-14 09:41 ]