i need a tight sequencer

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:12 am

hello to all . i have a lot of months to check planetz since i got fired from my job and u know i have missed u all... well i 'm having a great time know as i play music all the time and i also bought a axon guitar midi controller... But now i 'm really stuck in something. After i heard the tight timing that the novation nova arpeggiator haves and also the creamware arpaggiator and the modular sequencer modules i can't work with cubase's (5.1 r6--SX) very bad midi timing (in my opinion). I have tried several procedures : to work my drums in the modular- to trigger arpegiators from cubase (it doesn't even trigger well)... but now i really know that i need a sequencer like cubase with a very tight timing- please guys tell me what do u do... i don;t even want to work with exported vst insrtuments ( which they have perfect timing) cause i work with pulsar synths and my nova. So i want perfect real time midi timing. is there any midi interface which will do the trick ? a dual processor solution? a external hardware sequencer (and why the salesman in music stores haven;t heard of that problem-is it my system i don't beleive it cause since know i haven;t heard a soft sequencer with acceptable midi timing... please tell me your opinion....

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:46 am

please guys i need to find a solution...

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:01 am

well i did a search in the forum- what about midex 8 any experience?

petal · Post by **petal** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 2:31 pm

I can't help you, but I can join the choir: I would also like to know how you could make SX tight. When I control fx a drum machine build in the modular, it doesn't play "four to the floor" even though it is programmed to do it. Well at least not all the time. Why is that? And is there a way to prevent it from "introducing" variable lengths between each programmed midi-event?

A fellow computer-musician in distress....

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:27 pm

let me quote from a Vince Clark interview in the recent issue of german Keys mag:
...when I got the basic idea of a song I sit at the 18 years old BBC computers with the same age UMI software as a midi sequencer. I do all sequences and bass parts and trigger the synths live, 16 tracks maximum including drum stuff... and record the output in Logic.

The Atari ST is a crappy machine with a crappy OS but got one important advantage: midi events are part of the OS with system priority, so really nothing can break the timing. While brand new Ataris had incredible high failure rates, those units who survived until today will probably run forever

For drum samples the old SampleCell in first generation PowerMacs is said to be totally tight.
You might give one of the Oldies a try for a few bucks, I wouldn't expect a reliable timing on any new machine with hundreds of system services in the background.

cheers, Tom

petal · Post by **petal** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:38 pm

Damn!

That simply can't be right....

Actually I have never noticed the problem when using Reason - So it must be possible to build a tight sequencer. It's a shame that Reason doesn't have Midi-out......

Well, Astroman - thanks for the reply!
Cheers!
Thomas

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:10 am

Even if Reason had a midi out connextion there's no garantee it would be tight in timing... Once I tried to solve my problem (it was 2 years ago) syncing my cubase (4.1, Mac) to my Korg EA1 midi clock and it resulted in no improvement

. Then it was my old opcode midi interfce. I decided to look around for a newer midi interface and midex looked quite good apart from the fact I would have to change my computer (it was a beige Mac G3 - it was with no usb socket) and upgrade my cubase to at least 5. Midex seems to be best company for SX because it uses some technique to be tight (don't remember what was the name but something like TAED on washing powders

). Midex 8 - if you can afford but Midex 3 could be good, too. Of course I don't exactly know. Try to search http://www.harmonycentral.com for user reviews - this way I bought some of my gear (the reviews seem to be honest).

The Atari ST is a crappy machine with a crappy OS but got one important advantage: midi events are part of the OS with system priority, so really nothing can break the timing.

Yes, yes, yes!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2003-03-11 02:15 ]</font>

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:21 pm

Well i bought midex 3 and the situation is just a little better. i used it with cubase 5.1 and SX and found that the midi out is "tighter" but i i still can not use it for drums. For instruments it 's acceptable. So i decided. Halion for kicks (very tight) modular for percussion (really good sound) midex3 for instruments.... It;s a shame that a must in music making seems forgotten... in soft sequensers..

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:04 pm

It's a shame you have to jump through such hoops. Computers and synthesizers are still in the primative stage if you ask me, but things are getting better.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:54 pm

I remembered I also had the same problem with Nuendo. Just couldn't keep a constant clock rate. The jitters were quite obvious too. Like you said, couldn't even keep a constant 4x4. And that's without using VSTi. It could have been with my setup (which is the same as what I have right now)

Then I tried out Logic Fun, a free Logic 4 clone, and now I think the MIDI timing is much better. Completely workable. Maybe it does have a MIDI induced latency of 1ms or 2ms but I think that's OK. The point is that it's consistant.

But it depends. If you're talking about "tight" being a couple of samples worth of jitter, then you might have to go extreme and use some special gear.

I use Logic Fun with Pulsar MIDI out, to Triton. (and other pulsar synths)

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:31 am

There is only ONE thing that stops me from using Logic Fun (Mac) as my main sequencer: you can't sync anything to it nor sync it to anything

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2003-03-13 06:32 ]</font>

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:05 am

Since everybody on pc is nowaday into video (at least in germany) there won´t be much development in midi & co. because the whole music industry is nearly broke.
The only new developments int hat case I´ve seen on the mac (e.g. midi core, audio units, etc.) so I´d guess a mac using digital performer or logic and a motu midiinterace could do the trick.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:37 pm

I think there will always be development but it will be slower, especially now that Apple dropped the Emagic Windows users.

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:08 pm

Well, I can say that it probably has a lot to do with your setup. I used to e a die-hard Logic user running ME, then I upgraded to XP and timing was all over the map. But after a few weeks of tweaking and excising of all sorts of unnecessary server tools, etc., I found it to be smooth as butter. Then Logic betrayed me and I cross-graded to SX. I haven't found any timing issues with SX and I'm running right off the Pulsar and do use drum and synthtones from my K2500 (which are surprisingly amazing). Haven't noticed any inability to keep time. What's in your box?

Sam

felix o. · Post by **felix o.** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:57 am

which server tools did you disable?

felix o. · Post by **felix o.** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:31 am

dehuszar, you´re still there?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:22 am

I remember there was a list of services that you can disable somewhere on planetZ.. just can't remember what the post was called. probably something along the lines of XP tips.

felix o. · Post by **felix o.** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:35 am

i found this link in one of the threads

http://www.musicxp.net/

might be interesting.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:02 am

Thanks for the link, Felix!

This one seems right for the services that can be disabled:

http://www.streamworksaudio.com/contents.php?id=38

felix o. · Post by **felix o.** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:25 am

paul, did you try these settings?