Great instrument experience -again

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:40 am

Well, many probably know that I'm quite fond of flutes. Particularly the one I used for finland project. And now? I think I'm about to add my cheap ol' Er-hu to my attached instruments list.

I dunno, it's a strange feeling really. I hated the Er-hu. It sounded horrible when I played it, and it's extremely hard to learn. The proper form is very tiring (in my opinion anyway), and I can never keep it right. So I bought the instrument, played with it a couple time, and sort of put it away.

Now recently, I've written a short tune, and for some reason, my Er-Hu was in key with it, so I decided to take it for a run. As my hopes weren't too high, yeah, the results were horrible. Though, as time has passed since I first got the Er-Hu, I've managed to learn some of its fingerings.. Anyway, this time, I decided to keep to one melody, and tried to practice it so that atleast play it through once. The regular "etude" type of mentality.

3 days into practicing the etude, I was sort of getting all the pitches correct, and generally getting good at it. But there was that sense of "I'm manipulating an instrument" type of feel that really takes makes a difference when compared to "I am speaking with an instrument". Quite unhappy, I kept on practicing.

Untill the mini-breakthrough today. I decided to listen to what the Er-Hu was telling me, like how it was vibrating, whether it was reponding to the way I was bowing it.. Simply, I tried to go with whatever was going on in the instrument, and quit trying to impose my own thoughts on to it. I played closing my eyes.. concentrated on "listening" to the instrument, and tried less to "play" it. And the messages slowly came to me.. not in any clear form like "well, the bow has to move so-and-so, because it makes the strongs resonate at whatever hertz", but more like getting to know a person or a character. And man, has my bowing become better. I still do sound horrible, but now I'm confident that I can work with the Er-Hu. Atleast I understand the language it speaks to me in. It's a very interesting experience really, when you start to understand what the instrument tells you.

Last time, with the flute, I thought of the same thing.. This is probably the beauty of a real instrument. It's an instrument, or a tool, yeah. But unlike synths, these things have a solid personality of their own, and that's what puts them apart from a machine that you use to realize your own ideas. Alot of the times, you just have to go with what the instrument wants to do. (and perhaps the better I get, the more I know how to persuade the instrument to do what I want it to do)

Of course, synths are always great when you're just not in the mood to be persuading.. hehe. But when the persuasion works for a real instrument.. man, the power is just enormous. The type of power is like some living force..

Anyway.. just thought I'd share this while I'm still very excited about it. It's nothing along the lines of "real is good, synths are bad".. I mean, I'm still as digital as ever, but wow, the experience is just so intense. I love it!

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:24 am

Extremely interesting. It reminds me a little bit of how I tried to teach myself piano when I was a kid. I begged for lessons, but didn't get any, and no one knew how to play, so I just banged around.

I used to just flop over the keyboard, close my eyes, and hit notes, then try to feel what was the appropriate space to a new one - everything was about blind distances and strength. I thought that if I immersed myself deeply enough in the sound and really felt the notes that I'd be somehow "guided" along.

I used to do this every afternoon after school before anyone else got home and it felt wonderful even if it sounded awful.

No magical transformation ever swept over me - but the memory of those feelings is very strong.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:16 am

I agree with most of what you said but wait a minute Kensuguru, A synthesizer *is* a real instrument and I am sick and tired of the implication that it is not. A piano is a very mechanical instrument but generally is in the category of a real instrument. Maybe Speaker technology is new but I certainly would not say the sound that comes from speakers is not real. Recently I bought the Yamaha WX5 MIDI breath controller. I think maybe what you enjoy about the flute is that it is a more lyrical instrument. It has nothing to do with it being accoustic or as you put it *real* grrrrrrrrr.

Post by **hubird** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:08 pm

well done Ken, that's the way

After all we (us people) are just the 'instruments' that must let the instruments play... electronically either acoustic.
If at least you wanne find some musical truth...

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:01 pm

yeah.. braincell, I think you're very right.. I didn't want to raise the topic of acoustic vs digital.. perhaps "real" is something that is different for everyone. It just happen for me, with digital instruments.. as much as I like them. Perhaps it's more correct if I call what I feel from acoustic instruments, plainly "different". But aside from the technical details... you sort of do get my point. don't ya.. hehe. It's just when the shabang happens. It's cool. Happens with flutes, minimoogs, and violins alike. I guess it's simply when the musician starts to resonate with his instrument. That's what I'm trying to get to.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:26 pm

the erhu speaks with a human voice.funny how the simplest instruments have the most power sometimes.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:03 pm

kensuguro, I understand the infatuation or love of your instruments but I think we ought to recognize it is because of the physical mechanics of these instruments not that there is anything inherently magical about them.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:22 pm

yes yes, I hear ya. When the player's brain adjusts perfectly (or almost, anyway) with the mechanics of the instrument, when controling the instrument and predicting the results become almost second nature... It's just a learning process I guess. And that's a strange feeling.

It might be different for different people, but to me, it happened to be like getting to know a person. It's the moment you stop thinking about the physical, mechanical aspect of the instrument, when you're on top of it all, or atleast understand what's going on. That moment atleast "feels" a bit magical. Or should I say, that instant, is when the player has put the magic into the instrument, making it come alive.

I think I cover all this up in this type of fantasy-esque hype, cuz basically, I have no idea why this happens. I guess it's popular for people to just categorize something they cannot categorize, under a name called "magic".

I've been through lots, and LOTS of instruments... and I still don't know why it has only happened with these 2. It's not that I particularly like the sound of the flute, or the Er-Hu, and it's not that I'm particularly technically good at the 2. And if you think about it, the 2 have almost nothing in common. (well, they are both sustained sounds..) Actually, it would be sort of cool if we thought about WHY this happens. That some instruments just seem to "work", while some just don't have it. I think I sound dumb.. but it's the best I can describe it.

Perhaps it's the vibrating feedback. For the flute, the body resonates quite strongly, and I can feel it as I play. And also the Er-Hu, becuase I'm touching the vibrating string. That's quite strong, in terms of actually "touching" the sound. Strangely, though, the clarinet, or even the hichiriki, doesn't work, even though they vibrate too. But I haven't played the clarinet in almost 10 years so it's hard to say... But the vibration I think, maybe a very strong factor. (for me, atleast)

Hey... actually, wouldn't that be cool? If there was a keyboard, nevermind the touch and weight, but one that vibrated with the actual sound it was producing? All instruments vibrate, and it is a very vital feedback.. it's quite famous that Hellen Keller played piano, just by "touching" the vibrations. Perhaps it's one form of feedback, that keyboards could benefit from.

Anyway, it's probably something different for everyone. It'll be cool to hear what everyone thinks causes the blast.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-01-23 16:42 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:30 pm

that reminds me on a stunning performance of violinist Hilary Hahn I once happened to watch on TV. There was that deep unit between instrument and player.
When I 'play' keyboard each sound module produces different 'melodies' by a different acoustical response.
I have to admit that I'm not a studied player and stick to a similiar method as Spirit...
But electronic items seem to have their own life as well. My DR110 drummy from time to time gets angry and scratches horribly on snare accents to force me to reduce the rate.
And I could swear there lives a little guy inside the C64 SID chip playing his own game with the control signals

cheers, tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2003-01-23 19:33 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:32 pm

Maybe you're onto something with the vibration thing. I thought when I first got the WX5 that jazz musicians love horns because it makes them dizzy from blowing. Maybe that's why they drink so much? Speaking of new instruments I often have wondered why they don't make multi-tiered midi keyboards similar to the fancy electronic organs. I guess you can use and organ but I'm willing to bet they don't have after touch or weighted keys.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:25 am

the magic is the way you feel and think about it.even if you describe all of the physical laws involved,even if you explain the electical and chemical workings of the brain,you don't come near describing or explaining the experience.

the prophet 10 and yamaha dx1 were two multi tiered synths.very big ,heavy and expensive...financial flops.(cool boards)

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2003-01-24 02:27 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:04 am

Perhaps in years to come when symphonic music is created from thought and light and memory, some "hardcore instrument nut" will look back on these days. And in some clean room they will pull out a hardware synth and lose themselves in the wonderful tactile feeling of turning REAL knobs; and feeling the sliders; and working with limitations.

"Those were the days of real instruments," they might say.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:15 pm

Real interesting, and sensitive Ken, thanks for sharing this.

”Magic is the art of manipulating the forces of nature consciously” By Novalis.

Something is certain… the human anatomy is far for being known yet!

We know about a few hundreds of thousands of phenomena related to the functionalisms of the physical body, but not much about the causes related to the body itself, least of all about the psyche…

There are many moderns scientists that sustain we have discovered only about 10% of the workings and functions of the physical human body, and so… there are many, many more things to discover and to get to know.

Modern technology is getting us the tools to get deeper into these unknown fields, but the path to these discoveries is certainly slow and sometimes, very subjective.

I have a friend called Carlos, I meet him regularly and we talk much about all this kind of things. He is one of these great minds dedicated to the research on the fields of Marine Biology. He has already discovered several spices himself and has written several books about this. Quite frankly, I hardly understand certain concepts when he explains me the biological workings of nature and other wonders, but I love to discover us much as I can anyway...

He told me we know only about 30% of the total animal species living in the world. There are so many species to discover yet that they can be count by hundreds of thousands.

He told me that science, it doesn’t matter how much we have already gone into knowing certain important things, knows in fact extremely little of everything…and this statement I think, it’s a relevant one!

There are many functions not yet understood and many causes not yet discovered, from which we only know the effects not having any references of the sources. Look at our medicine; it always goes to the effects, but almost never struggles against the causes. Why? Cos we don’t know about these causes yet.

The same happens with the human brain and the sensations generated by music hearing. Nobody can yet explain why we feel something. The most you can find are interesting but non-realistic speculations about this topic, nothing conclusive.

The experience of what you feel it is indeed magical.

Have you heard about the microvolts? This extremely small quantities of electric energy released by the brain when listening, composing or playing music? Well, these microvolts have sometimes caused unknown phenomena, not yet discovered by scientists even if microvolts can in fact be measured, but these forces exist. There are many things we don’t know, but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[ This Message was edited by: nestor on 2003-01-26 17:08 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:37 pm

ya, and I tend to use words like "bang", "stuff", "schmizwick", "hoonga-dunga" alot when I dont' know what's going on. LOL. My vocabulary drops from a man holding a degree in media arts, down to just an excited kid trying to describe his save-the-game goal kick. Man, what these microvolts can do to your brain.

Anyway peeps, feel free to flow on.. it's starting to sound a bit debate-ish.. Didn't really mean to start a dispute. Synth vs acoustic, and science vs unknown are VERY tough issues.. and can really agitate people. So, before we get any of that, let's just move on. The diversity in mind, philosophy, and beliefs is part of what makes Z a great place. Let's just keep it at that.

So, to sum it up.. playing instruments, and being able to do what you want to do is cool. Whatever it is, that we play. The "cool-ness" is different each time, depending on the situation and all... but the bottom line is, musicians are dead addicted to it. I just wanted to say that was kinda cool. Easy as that.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:16 am

all i wanted to say is "i'm hip......"

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 11:10 am

Maybe instruments of the future will involve virtual worlds. For instance you won't have to remember what patch the conga drums are because you will see them in front of you.