What warez really do to our industry . . .

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:41 pm

From Sonic Foundry's annual report:

OUR AUDITORS HAVE ISSUED A "GOING CONCERN" OPINION

Our auditors have stated that due to our working capital deficiency, our convertible debt obligations, and our lack of long-term credit availability, there is "substantial doubt" about our ability to continue as a going concern. Our plans in regard to these matters is to consider the sale of certain assets. As of the reporting date, we have received multiple non-binding offers from qualified bidders and we anticipate closing one or more transactions in early 2003. Such a transaction is expected to provide us with sufficient resources to:

. Retire the remaining balance due subordinated debt holders;

. Retire the additional $1,000,000 bridge note;

. Restructure the Company and aggressively pursue a focused strategy of growing the remaining business.

There can be no assurances we will reach an agreement to sell certain assets nor that any such agreement will be completed on terms favorable to us or timely enough to avoid disruption of operations. 

My personal opinion is that their problems have been caused by just one thing: PIRACY

Four friends of mine all use SoundForge6 (as I do). But the only person who actually PAID for their copy was me. To put it bluntly they think I'm an absolute f#*king idiot for paying for my copy.

When I mentioned the problems of SoFo and that maybe it was caused by piracy, one friend just grinned and said "yeah, maybe".

The problem here is that people who use cracked versions just don't care whether the company goes bankrupt or not because they'll just get a crack of some other software to use instead. Meanwhile legitimate users get screwed.

Makes me mad.

When he left he gave me a CD with "some stuff I might like". It had a copy of his new tunes, a crack of the JunoX VSTi and a crack of Cubase SX . . . thanks

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:37 pm

greed makes it o.k. to do to others,what we would never want done to ourselves.....

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:27 am

on the other hand though, I think that for some, if they knew the reality of SoFo's situation, perhaps they'll actually think about buying. I think most users don't see the connection of their act of piracy to SoFo's situation, and then how that will effect users in the long term. So it's impoartant we get the word out.
Internet spread the warez version... it's time to use internet to stop it.

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:17 am

I think this is one reason DSP cards are not going to go away as fast as native fans would like to think. :0

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:28 am

I have not even one piece of warez on any of my three computers. I like paying for software, that I like. It makes me feel, that I am a tiny part of the future development of the software.

It can be realy tiresome ot times though. I have sometimes installed 6 or 7 freeware programs instead of downloading a cracked version. Of those 6 or 7 programs, I will often quickly delete the 3 or 4 of them, and then I will try and make the remaining ones do in unition more or less, what I intended to make. Takes time, but some people are dependant on the software, that I could get an illegal version of, and I don't want to be part of the people to leach on those paying custommers, who might eventually see their software become unsupported.

I was VERY close to getting a pirated Logic 5 though. I payed for my logic 4, that most of the time didn't work well with my Pulsar card (in my first PC with apollo 133!), and not long after my Pulsar started going well - I bought Samplitude

So I felt busted by Emagic (Apple), but hey it was good to me in the end. You can say, that I got VERY little out of my Logic Gold, but well, it feels better this way.

Immanuel

ontik · Post by **ontik** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:11 pm

It's a real catch 22.

To a degree, sales are generated by warez and I can say that of myself. I've used stuff off 'a disk of stuff I might like' and purchased the apps I choose to use. This is almost necessary nowadays to make your product known and gain credibility. Regardless of the fact that you have a good Demo download.

Also, the question must be asked. Just how many users of warez would actually buy the software if they couldn't get it for free?? This is purely opinion but my thoughts from the guys I know who use it is that few of them would because they typically can't afford to and would just go without rather than strecth themselves financially. IE they only use them because they have been able to get them for free. To this effect sales are not significantly impacted.

Purely opinion.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:54 pm

I don't think the users of warez would buy very much software if they had to. Most of them are poor and own far more than they ever could afford to legally own. I know some people who are registered users of Cubase but still use the warez either because they can't afford the upgrades or because they want to have it installed on more than one computer. I don't think there is a user alive who actually likes the dongles. I remember the emagic "Military Grade Encryption" haha that lasted about two months. I hope to god that isn't the state of our military encription. Isn't Cubase the most commonly hacked software? Here is a quote from their website:

How big is Steinberg?
Steinberg employs 180 people worldwide. In 2000, the company achieved a turnover of EUR 22 million.

Doesn't seem like they are hurting.

I think we can all agree that using warez is not ethical or legal. Let's work to create a open source music software.

I have seen a lot of ads lately which tell people if you buy drugs you are supporting terrorism and murder. Is it because we buy drugs or is it because drugs are not legal which creates a gigantic black market for them. If software was free there would be no warez.

"Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'll all join us, and the world will live as one"

--- John Lenon

P.S. how did that guy's new tracks sound?

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:13 pm

If software was free they'd be very little good quality software

How much of the work you get paid for every day would you continue to do (or afford to do) if you didn't get paid ?

Even good software which is free usually relies upon the experience gained by programmers who spend most of their time being paid to code.

And here's a scenario: a person says they can't afford Cubase SX, so they get a warez copy. They say "Oh, but I'd never be able to afford to buy it anyway, so it's not as if Cubase has lost a sale."

Yes, but if this person didn't have the warez copy of Cubase then they'd probably *BUY* a copy of Orion, or Fruityloops or N-track. Maybe they'd use a genuine freeware app and actually *help* someone else in the industry.

Or how about saving up ?

I think the most interesting thing about warez is what they reveal about the peronality of the user. To me it shows a person's moral threshold, the point at which they will abandon basic principles such as "I will not steal" and "I will work to get what I want", and instead give in to simple greed and selfishness.

To save and strive and work and then to look forward to the fruit of your work is good for the soul.

_________________
Where I rest . . .

[ This Message was edited by: Spirit on 2003-01-09 21:14 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:22 pm

On 2003-01-09 19:54, braincell wrote:
P.S. how did that guy's new tracks sound?

Pretty good - he's a good muso. We worked together for many years and played around town in a few bands. He was mainly a hardware nut, but has got into software via warez. Which is a good point

. . . he's buying less hardware gear now too because he gets all his gear-lust satisfaction from software.

An interestin side-effect of warez (at least with him) is that he's like a kid with too many toys. Because the apps represent no real value to him, he expends very little energy getting to know them.

With his hardware he'll read the manual many times, tweak the knobs and get to know his gear backwards.

With the warez he'll just skim the surface, look for the instant gratification, and usually with the soft-synths, stick to the presets. Why invest time ? If nothing falls out immediately he'll just move to the next one.

Extrapolating that a but further you could argue that warez users like him who use the apps in such a offhand fashion may actually generate negtive PR since they never bother to explore the deep potential.
_________________
Where I rest . . .

[ This Message was edited by: spirit on 2003-01-09 21:26 ]

Chill69 · Post by **Chill69** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:14 pm

While I don't condone the use of warez, I admittedly have 2 on my system. I agree with the arguments posted here, but in my case it's a little different. I know that stealing is stealing, but the applications I have are no longer in circulation or being developed, and the author has abandoned the programs to the internet. It's frustrating as I really like them, but his website is no longer functioning and he is unavailible to contact, and all I have is a demo copy that needs a serial. So I did the nasty and found a key generator for them. Was I wrong in doing this? Sure. On the other hand, with an application that's gone abandoned for over 2 years with an author that's no longer developing the software, what options do I have to procure the legal licenses for the software? Hence the catch 22. Unfortunately, Abandonware (as it's called) often falls into this area that still effects other software channels.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:35 pm

How many warez users would buy the software, if they could not get warez?

Well, how many guitarists buy a guitar, because they can not get warez? How many guitarist buy a Hohner "bundle", because they can not afford a Fender/Matchless set-up? If people want to do the stuff, they will probably buy some variation off it.

How many warez users have 600€/$+ speakers and/or 300€/$+ microphones? Would they maybe settle for less, if they could not get warez, or would they be "too poor"?

I agree so much with Spirit - it is in most cases a question of personality.

How many people would listen to music, if they could not get copies? I believe most people would listen to radeo, or aftually choose their music very carefully and get some music, that they will like also a week after it falls ot of top10.

How many people would buy bread, if they couldn't get "bread warez"? What happens in a war situation, when butter and coffee gets hard to get? People find more affordable substitutes. It is very similar to, what Spirit says about getting other software.

What do people do, if they can not get a Creamwarez Scope card. If they want Creamware and are on a low budget, they eat nothing for a year and buy a Luna2.

It is most always a bad excuse for low moral (and sometimes accompanied with knowing nothing about drivin a company financially, but believing that one knows so much, and "they are just so stupid to take so much - if they charged ½price 3 times as many people would buy it" (yeah right) "It hurts noone, that I have an illegal copy, when so many people are paying"). And then - the economic "wisdom" is most always also a bad excuse for lack of moral. Those people are the reason, why we have police - so they can not go steal their breakfast in the nearest supermarket.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:38 pm

Oh, and Chill: Your situation is tricky. In that very special situation, I might do the same, if I could not find another tool, wich could do the job.

ontik · Post by **ontik** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:20 pm

Look, I can only draw from examples that I see or experience first hand of course

I can't say I know anyone who is doing any serious music work that is not an owner of the software they use. Sure I know heaps of guys that have warez and they have dodgy machines no additional hardware, at best a SB Live card and so on

Immanuel, the analogy that 'If you want a guitar you buy a lesser item that a Strat' while making sense isn't really a valid comparison. Why? Cos no-one's out ther pedalling free guitars no matter how crappy they are. If I was walking down the street and some guys says 'here wanna free guitar' I'm gonna say 'yes' even though I am unlikely to ever use it and i don't care where its come from either. If I was serious enough then I'd buy something of quality just like I have with all own digitally, AND I owned Rebirth, Acid and a little tracker prog called Dreamstation before spending big on Reason, Cubase and CW Cards.

What I'm saying is the if a warez user gets serious then the larger % will buy what they use. Enough of them to make warez a marketing tool to some degree. IE more income is generated rather than lost due the the existence of warez.

Maybe its just an Australian thing but its far 'cooler' in the circles I travel to OWN your software. warez is used frequently but more in place of demos for the sake of say, getting used to the product, tuning your ears to it, not encountering some annoying inclusion of a beep etc.

Just thoughts, all of them....