Audio format wars

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:44 am

Suddenly I am reading about SACD (not news to others I'm sure) and how "normal" CDs are on the way out.

But I thought DVD was the new king? Certainly in Australia DVD/CD players are the big thing. I hate read-only DVD so am waiting for the DVD format war to end first . . .

But still there's audio: Which format will win and which will die do you think ?

CD, DVD, SACD, Minidisc, MP3. And what about Surround ? I read that the record companies like it because it's hard to pirate. Is that so ?

Any promising formats I've missed ?

I think it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of PlanetZ people since we are spread all round the world.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:49 pm

they'll tell u which one u gotta have...ignore them untill u no longer can find anything in the format u already have....

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:34 am

Yes, one day we will receive Planet Z at our breakfast computer screens on the toilet, all new tracks and topic´s -32bit, 96kHz, surrounded and already downloaded.
Of course, a monthly fee is written off your account for Mr. Cooper and all musicans.

What a morning meditation this could be, you haven´t surround sound on your toilet,ha.

For the near future DVD will made it, because it has a market already. We have to study surround, or? I orded Cubase SX.

A good day to everyone!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:37 am

recently a girl in the office asked 'hey, you're a techie. Which is the best digital sat receiver I can get ?'.
My reply was to first consider the picture quality she wants as there were huge differences, which influenced the price.
'No' she said 'I just want a digital one'

She's the typical consumer (nothing bad with that) also from age.
So quality may concern us music makers, but doesn't matter at all where the money is made.
DVD fits best with the current clip-marketing of music, where image is the main source in selling a lot of sh*t.
Surround will certainly become a main feature soon as even the most dumb are able to distinguish it from plain stereo.
And honestly, if I imagine a surround setup of a modular patch where I'm blowing my digital horn from left back to front right and accellerate it through space... this has something...

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2002-11-23 06:38 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:21 pm

I'm angry on ads like: explore the world of digital sound and vision... Both dig a & v are not excellent yet (I mean MPG format... you can find on DVDs and Digital TV platforms) and nobody knows if it will be. Consider the fact of VHS rulling the world while other home video systems bankrupt -> VIDEO 2000, home Beta -> both offering better video and sound quality... Why? Because VHS is cheaper in production and JVC gave free licence for producing tapes and recorders... Or look at the war in HD TV formats. They've been talking about this 'future tv systems' for at least 12 years now! There is no agreement in the screen format (16:9 or other) not to mention the technical aspect - American HDTV, Japanease one, European...

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:27 pm

On 2002-11-22 09:44, Spirit wrote:
I hate read-only DVD so am waiting for the DVD format war to end first . . .
But still there's audio: Which format will win and which will die do you think ?

Yeah! It's difficult to join the club! You buy an expensive DVD audio and tomorrow there is another formayt or the next step what you have and your yesterday-top-end player becomes junk...

But that reminds me an old rule, too: like a decision on to buy or not to buy a computer: if you buy a top computer for a fortune - tomorrow it's worth half of it. So let's wait for it to be cheaper. But following such point of view you get to an infinite loop of waiting. Not to mention you have no computer!

Actually I agree with you, Spirit. Let's wait for the format to crystalize!

_________________
Sir SamPlaire

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2002-11-23 13:28 ]

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:56 pm

Consider the fact of VHS rulling the world while other home video systems bankrupt -> VIDEO 2000, home Beta -> both offering better video and sound quality... Why?

I've been told VHS made it cos all German porn movies were brought out on VHS in the early days. I was still playing w Lego at that time, so I can't confirm

Anyone has a super-audio CD player here? I think Sony and Philips recently agreed on that new format. Don't know this for sure either.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:18 pm

I've been told VHS made it cos all German porn movies were brought out on VHS in the early days.

Once I puted my hands on Video 2000 recorder (you know, top-side loading cassettes, analog tuner, etc) brought to my by my friend from Germany (it was 1988). I received 22 cassettes with the device: 17 with German playback movies (like the well known 'Der Man ohne Nerven' featuring Ch. Bronson), 1 with no-spoken-cartoons and 4 with porn films

So my first contact with such art was not vhs but v2000!

_________________
Sir SamPlaire

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2002-11-23 21:20 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:13 pm

Is DVD sound higher quality than 44khz/16bit CD ? Are they all surround sound by definition ?

A bit ignorant I suppose, but you need only take your eyes off the market for a short time and everything's changed.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:20 pm

192kHz, 24bits (or 32 I don't remember) - surround - I don't think so as I haven't heard anybody prepares suround versions of their albums (1) expensive, 2)who buys those audio DVDs yet?)

Post by **garyb** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:35 pm

dvd sound can be in several formats.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:37 pm

Peter Gabriel had the album UP available in both normal audio CD and the other in DvD audio format... Yes, it is 24bits/192khz ac3

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:38 pm

Can be - yes. But will they use it for the surround sound? What format - Dolby digital is a crap (sounds like an MP3), perhaps DTS?

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 4:57 pm

There's different audio formats available for DVD. I quote James A. Moorer from Sonic Solutions:

DVD has a number of standard audio formats, both compressed and uncompressed. The uncompressed formats are PCM at bit widths of 16, 20, or 24, and sampling rates of 48 kHz and 96 kHz.

He also says that, at the time of writing, no definite official boundaries have been set for DVD yet.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:48 am

On 2002-12-01 16:57, at0mic wrote:
He also says that, at the time of writing, no definite official boundaries have been set for DVD yet.

There should be someone, big enough & brave enough (or after a deep market research) to stand a standard format. It reminds me the time of first Blue&White G3 Macs with no floppies, standard Mac serial ports but with firewire and usb onboard and then I remind the big rise of usb and firewire devices on the market.

Steve-o · Post by **Steve-o** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:24 am

Written for consumers but informative for the 5.1-beginner:

Surround Sound Formats

http://timefordvd.com/tutorial/SurroundSound.shtml

(You haven't experienced a movie until you hear it in surround sound)

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:21 am

>>>> For the near future DVD will made it,
>>> because it has a market already. We have >>> to study surround, or? I orded Cubase SX.

DVD already has its equivalent of SACD and could be considered outdated (if i find the references of the new dvd format, i'll post it here) .
So could be 5.1 speakers as some brand begin to release 6.1 speakers, at a time when the industry already thinks about a 8.2 standard (don't ask me much about it).

I doubt average people would agree to install a 8.2 home cinema at their place (even a 5.1, and may be even a decent stereo setup).

I don't think many will go for anything else than DVD, which is not yet widely used by consumers and still has shares of market to take.

For a musician Surround is interesting for the so called "3" dimensions (rear front stereo, there no "up" and "down" in 5.1 surround : may be that would require a 12.2 setup).

I'll get a small unexpensive 5.1 surround setup soon, but it is more for personal enjoyment than anything else.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:31 am

I think it's a tough choice too.. sure there's 8.2 or whatever that's AVAILABLE. But it's pointless to mix for a platform that doesn't exist. 5.1 almost doens't exist. And in the closest form, it's 5.1 virtual surround using headphones.

It might be the way of the future. And it really is. It's definitely not the way of the present, just yet.

People still watch DVD on less than adequate consumer model cheapsh!t TVs... that's poor stereo even at it's best.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2003-01-06 11:33 ]