for my girlfriend
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Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
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for my girlfriend
I did this song for my girlfriend, it's called Waiting for You. It's a classical piece of music, lots of work with harmony-melody. Please, let me think what you think. Cheers...
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
hi Nestor
Waiting for You is a very pleasant piece, which conjours up hints of Ravel and Debussy, with its French "flaneur" feel combined with a hint of eastern promise. As for criticism (which I hope you will take as constructive), I felt that the handling of the strings was a little clumsy, in that the chord progressions (eg at 1min) go in big blocks, with one note held almost continuously. If you could raise the held note by one tone during, say, the second block, it would add a certain piquancy.
The other thing I found is that you should play with positioning the instruments more. If you look at an orchestra from the audience, you'll find the flutes are generally left-based, the horns even more so and the trumpets are out to the right. This would I think give more of an orchestral impression. Be brave with pan!
Well, that's what hit me when I heard it - and you know, I've listened to it three or four times now, which is a good sign!
As for a rating out of 10... let's say 7.
P.s. I know we all hate working with orchestral samples because they don't sound right - maybe that's still a good thing, because I wouldn't want real orchestras to disappear.
all the best,
Otion12
Waiting for You is a very pleasant piece, which conjours up hints of Ravel and Debussy, with its French "flaneur" feel combined with a hint of eastern promise. As for criticism (which I hope you will take as constructive), I felt that the handling of the strings was a little clumsy, in that the chord progressions (eg at 1min) go in big blocks, with one note held almost continuously. If you could raise the held note by one tone during, say, the second block, it would add a certain piquancy.
The other thing I found is that you should play with positioning the instruments more. If you look at an orchestra from the audience, you'll find the flutes are generally left-based, the horns even more so and the trumpets are out to the right. This would I think give more of an orchestral impression. Be brave with pan!
Well, that's what hit me when I heard it - and you know, I've listened to it three or four times now, which is a good sign!
As for a rating out of 10... let's say 7.
P.s. I know we all hate working with orchestral samples because they don't sound right - maybe that's still a good thing, because I wouldn't want real orchestras to disappear.
all the best,
Otion12
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Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Hello Otion12. Thanks for your replay.
In fact, Ravel and Debussy, jointly with Stravinsky, are three of my preferred composers. So I’m certainly influenced by them. Good ear you have, yes, Eastern music is also a much-loved resource of inspiration to me.
I REALLY appreciate your criticism, it doesn’t bother me at all, totally on the contrary, this is what I’m looking for so I can open my mind more and more. There is no music without a listener. The composer does 50% of the job; you are in fact, the other 50%.
The held note gives me a special sensation; it’s difficult to explain. I’ve always liked this, and this is not my first try at doing it, I’ve done it in all sorts of stiles getting this kind a mystical experience. I nevertheless agree with you cos the harmony goes in big blocks, you are not the first person to tell me that.
Now… this is a great advice: “The other thing I found is that you should play with positioning the instruments more. If you look at an orchestra from the audience, you'll find the flutes are generally left-based, the horns even more so and the trumpets are out to the right. This would I think give more of an orchestral impression. Be brave with pan!” You are absolutely right about that, I did not realise it when I did it. If I were to compose something classical now, I would for sure take care of this important factor, to achieve more realism. Great point, thanks!
Well, I have done very little Classical music with Pulsar so far, if I compare the lot I’ve done in Fusion music, I have much to learn about classical ensembles.
Thank you for your interesting points.
In fact, Ravel and Debussy, jointly with Stravinsky, are three of my preferred composers. So I’m certainly influenced by them. Good ear you have, yes, Eastern music is also a much-loved resource of inspiration to me.
I REALLY appreciate your criticism, it doesn’t bother me at all, totally on the contrary, this is what I’m looking for so I can open my mind more and more. There is no music without a listener. The composer does 50% of the job; you are in fact, the other 50%.
The held note gives me a special sensation; it’s difficult to explain. I’ve always liked this, and this is not my first try at doing it, I’ve done it in all sorts of stiles getting this kind a mystical experience. I nevertheless agree with you cos the harmony goes in big blocks, you are not the first person to tell me that.
Now… this is a great advice: “The other thing I found is that you should play with positioning the instruments more. If you look at an orchestra from the audience, you'll find the flutes are generally left-based, the horns even more so and the trumpets are out to the right. This would I think give more of an orchestral impression. Be brave with pan!” You are absolutely right about that, I did not realise it when I did it. If I were to compose something classical now, I would for sure take care of this important factor, to achieve more realism. Great point, thanks!
Well, I have done very little Classical music with Pulsar so far, if I compare the lot I’ve done in Fusion music, I have much to learn about classical ensembles.
Thank you for your interesting points.
Hi Nestor. I thought this was pretty well put together, and am curious about a few things:
1) Where did you take your samples from. Some of them are pretty good, at least better than my equivalents.
2) What sequencing software are you using. I have been finding it very hard to write classical-style melodies in cubase. Are you using Sibelius / Sib 2 ? I've been thinking about getting a copy and would like your opinion, if 'yes'.
3) How long did this take to write ? Do you go through a conceptual stage or just sit down and write ? The latter hasn't been doing me any favours. Do you write it straight into the sequencer or use a 'real' instrument to come up with the harmonies etc.
On the whole I enjoyed this far more than 'The Nature of God'. There was far more variation and the mix did sound clearer.
I would definitely recommend more use of pan though. Not only does it sound more 'authentic' but it also brings out all the harmonies more clearly and makes a big difference to the tonal qualities.
1) Where did you take your samples from. Some of them are pretty good, at least better than my equivalents.
2) What sequencing software are you using. I have been finding it very hard to write classical-style melodies in cubase. Are you using Sibelius / Sib 2 ? I've been thinking about getting a copy and would like your opinion, if 'yes'.
3) How long did this take to write ? Do you go through a conceptual stage or just sit down and write ? The latter hasn't been doing me any favours. Do you write it straight into the sequencer or use a 'real' instrument to come up with the harmonies etc.
On the whole I enjoyed this far more than 'The Nature of God'. There was far more variation and the mix did sound clearer.
I would definitely recommend more use of pan though. Not only does it sound more 'authentic' but it also brings out all the harmonies more clearly and makes a big difference to the tonal qualities.
Hi ya Nestor,
I like your piece, but I would suggest for more 'clarity', accentuate the structure / sections with more textural and timbral contrast, it has the feeling of an 'aural shower'. (but, as usual, that might be exactly what you wanted!).
I'd also like to know which score-writing software you use, I see you like Cubase, is it that one.
To mr.swim, I reckon Sibelius is a waste of money, Its basically a 'for print' programme.
And Nestor, you might be interested in some orchestration programmes I taped of Radio 3, especially the one on Ravel's 'La Valse'
Robert
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert on 2002-07-18 22:15 ]</font>
I like your piece, but I would suggest for more 'clarity', accentuate the structure / sections with more textural and timbral contrast, it has the feeling of an 'aural shower'. (but, as usual, that might be exactly what you wanted!).
I'd also like to know which score-writing software you use, I see you like Cubase, is it that one.
To mr.swim, I reckon Sibelius is a waste of money, Its basically a 'for print' programme.
And Nestor, you might be interested in some orchestration programmes I taped of Radio 3, especially the one on Ravel's 'La Valse'
Robert
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert on 2002-07-18 22:15 ]</font>
I heard that Sib 2 could act as a midi sequencer in the same way that Cubase can, except that it was geared to score writing rather than cubase's bar-oriented interface.
If it can sync with my sts3000, that would be all I need, as I would like to print the results out and get them played eventually anyway.
My plan would then be to get the wav files from this and manipulate them via cubase and sfp, adding drums etc and generally messing them up.
Sib still bad ?
If it can sync with my sts3000, that would be all I need, as I would like to print the results out and get them played eventually anyway.
My plan would then be to get the wav files from this and manipulate them via cubase and sfp, adding drums etc and generally messing them up.
Sib still bad ?
Sibelius is £500 bad!
If you want professional looking scores to print out it might, (just might), be worth it, but only if you're looking for 'modern' score-writing procedures.
I use a shareware programme called Noteworthy Composer, (which I registered). its about £25 but don't let that put you off! Its more of a step-sequencer than a real-time one but its score-writing is the most user-friendly I've come across and as you've got cubase the real-time bit shouldn't matter.
I've probably got exactly the same problem as you, how to combine real-time with step- sequencing and I've come to the conclusion that any score-writer is OK for exercises or sketch work but you need a dedicated MIDI and Audio set-up so that you can play 'live' all the parts. If you like Classical, you must realise that the performance is everything, and any step parts just don't sound right. It was a hard decision to come to but I've got to go back to my Atari days and play everything in!
(And don't get me onto Orchestral Sample discs, because I don't like them either!)
Robert
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert on 2002-07-18 22:17 ]</font>
If you want professional looking scores to print out it might, (just might), be worth it, but only if you're looking for 'modern' score-writing procedures.
I use a shareware programme called Noteworthy Composer, (which I registered). its about £25 but don't let that put you off! Its more of a step-sequencer than a real-time one but its score-writing is the most user-friendly I've come across and as you've got cubase the real-time bit shouldn't matter.
I've probably got exactly the same problem as you, how to combine real-time with step- sequencing and I've come to the conclusion that any score-writer is OK for exercises or sketch work but you need a dedicated MIDI and Audio set-up so that you can play 'live' all the parts. If you like Classical, you must realise that the performance is everything, and any step parts just don't sound right. It was a hard decision to come to but I've got to go back to my Atari days and play everything in!
(And don't get me onto Orchestral Sample discs, because I don't like them either!)
Robert
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert on 2002-07-18 22:17 ]</font>
God ! You are really ANTI-sibelius.
I do agree that you need a dedicated midi/audio sequencer to be able to really hear what you are doing. It is just that I thought Sib 2 was one ! And yes, performance is everything, it is just that I don't really have any performers, or anywhere for there to perform !
And damn it ! There must be a sonic way of writing in the old-school score mode. Cubase does really affect the way one writes - the ease of looping, the set bars, the problem of tempo changes (accelerandos etc). I find myself writing things which sound more like techno than classical !
As for Orchestral Sample discs, I agree, but for the time being that sort of thing is all I have to go on . . . if only I'd paid attention in theory classes when I was a kid, then maybe I could just write notes and know what it would all sound like. But alas ! I had to be a rebel didn't I ?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mr swim on 2002-07-19 05:59 ]</font>
I do agree that you need a dedicated midi/audio sequencer to be able to really hear what you are doing. It is just that I thought Sib 2 was one ! And yes, performance is everything, it is just that I don't really have any performers, or anywhere for there to perform !
And damn it ! There must be a sonic way of writing in the old-school score mode. Cubase does really affect the way one writes - the ease of looping, the set bars, the problem of tempo changes (accelerandos etc). I find myself writing things which sound more like techno than classical !
As for Orchestral Sample discs, I agree, but for the time being that sort of thing is all I have to go on . . . if only I'd paid attention in theory classes when I was a kid, then maybe I could just write notes and know what it would all sound like. But alas ! I had to be a rebel didn't I ?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mr swim on 2002-07-19 05:59 ]</font>
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Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Thanks very much for your replays guys!
Hello Mr Swim: as I said in other posts, this album was recorded four years ago, almost 5 already. The samples came from many different sources and some of them from my KORG X5, an old low-priced keyboard I use as a MIDI keyboard, but even now, still use its sounds as samples or just play recording it as wave files. I love KORG sounds above any other Wavetable synths in the world.
In fact, I have always used Cubase. I started with the version 1.1, can you imagine that? It has no audio at that time… Now I’m working with VST 5.1.r.1. I think Cubase it’s suitable to write anything, classical or anything else. Cubase has never been an impediment to me, but on the contrary, a helpful inspiration cos of its interface and fast access to every function. The only real hell was 3.5, it was just a can of bugs, exasperating to such a terrible extent! But those days are gone, fortunately.
I started by the melody which came the first day, and then put the harmony together in about 15 days, and it took me about a month to get it to the mix. Everything was played from the keyboard, and you’ll notice there is no quantasing at all, this music dies if you do.
I would always compose with real instrument in hand. The guitar or the keyboard. This one was ideated with the keyboard, the melody was just singing at work. Sometimes I use my bass to compose, but a completely different kind of music: fusion music. There the bass is the boss.
I do not use “one” method for composing I’m rather open to anything that may happen as a way to get the music I want, but the following is what happens most of the time. Most of the time I “feel” something emotionally clear, like very coherent words put together let’s say, and then I hear a very tangible piece of music in my head. Eventually, if what I feel is very, very strong, I can get roughly the entire song, but the ideas have to be answered quickly enough, in about 30 minutes, no more than that… Is all I can hold with the idea being alive, after that, it starts to go away and if I try to remember, or reproduce it, I know I’m going to be frustrated cos I would be able to bring it back as it was.
I compose in rather chunks that build up one onto the other and this is what I hear in my head. I do all the work in my imagination first, and then I start putting things together in real physical facts. The problem is that if I don’t seat quickly in front of a piano or get a guitar, everything vanishes, and so the feelings I had at that moment.
Sometimes I start by a rhythm that gets me into the feeling… sometimes a few written words or a melody, or a few chords I discovered playing foolishly about, etc. But with classical music I get rather serious and look inside myself.
I absolutely take note of your advice, a few others have said the same to, and I have to pay more attention to the pan thing when doing classical, certainly!
Hello Robert, no, this is not what I wanted, you’re right. Of course, I would have preferred to have more textures at hand, but with 4 DSPs, it’s difficult. I didn’t know how to bounce when I started so I did everything in a single go.
You’re right, as I said before, Cubase is my sequencer software and this is my 50% with Pulsar. Pulsar without VST for me, well… it would not be the same thing. Fortunately they exist and coexists beautifully.
Tell me Robert, what program is it “La Valse”? It’s a UK radio isn’t it?
You know Mr Swim? Cubase Score does this job and does it well. If you need to print out your music for others to play it.
Robert: in fact, as said before, I don’t quantize classical music, I play with care and then I would edit it in the edit and score windows for fine details. The Nature of God was quantized nevertheless, cos it has a continuous rhythm. Wrong, cos it killed quite a lot its expression.
Classical instruments samples are not the perfect thing I agree; these are very fine sounds that are difficult to get recorded at all, even with real bands… There is nothing like hear it live. Sound engineers say recording classical orchestras is extremely difficult.
Well, thanks for your replays again.
Hello Mr Swim: as I said in other posts, this album was recorded four years ago, almost 5 already. The samples came from many different sources and some of them from my KORG X5, an old low-priced keyboard I use as a MIDI keyboard, but even now, still use its sounds as samples or just play recording it as wave files. I love KORG sounds above any other Wavetable synths in the world.
In fact, I have always used Cubase. I started with the version 1.1, can you imagine that? It has no audio at that time… Now I’m working with VST 5.1.r.1. I think Cubase it’s suitable to write anything, classical or anything else. Cubase has never been an impediment to me, but on the contrary, a helpful inspiration cos of its interface and fast access to every function. The only real hell was 3.5, it was just a can of bugs, exasperating to such a terrible extent! But those days are gone, fortunately.
I started by the melody which came the first day, and then put the harmony together in about 15 days, and it took me about a month to get it to the mix. Everything was played from the keyboard, and you’ll notice there is no quantasing at all, this music dies if you do.
I would always compose with real instrument in hand. The guitar or the keyboard. This one was ideated with the keyboard, the melody was just singing at work. Sometimes I use my bass to compose, but a completely different kind of music: fusion music. There the bass is the boss.
I do not use “one” method for composing I’m rather open to anything that may happen as a way to get the music I want, but the following is what happens most of the time. Most of the time I “feel” something emotionally clear, like very coherent words put together let’s say, and then I hear a very tangible piece of music in my head. Eventually, if what I feel is very, very strong, I can get roughly the entire song, but the ideas have to be answered quickly enough, in about 30 minutes, no more than that… Is all I can hold with the idea being alive, after that, it starts to go away and if I try to remember, or reproduce it, I know I’m going to be frustrated cos I would be able to bring it back as it was.
I compose in rather chunks that build up one onto the other and this is what I hear in my head. I do all the work in my imagination first, and then I start putting things together in real physical facts. The problem is that if I don’t seat quickly in front of a piano or get a guitar, everything vanishes, and so the feelings I had at that moment.
Sometimes I start by a rhythm that gets me into the feeling… sometimes a few written words or a melody, or a few chords I discovered playing foolishly about, etc. But with classical music I get rather serious and look inside myself.
I absolutely take note of your advice, a few others have said the same to, and I have to pay more attention to the pan thing when doing classical, certainly!
Hello Robert, no, this is not what I wanted, you’re right. Of course, I would have preferred to have more textures at hand, but with 4 DSPs, it’s difficult. I didn’t know how to bounce when I started so I did everything in a single go.
You’re right, as I said before, Cubase is my sequencer software and this is my 50% with Pulsar. Pulsar without VST for me, well… it would not be the same thing. Fortunately they exist and coexists beautifully.
Tell me Robert, what program is it “La Valse”? It’s a UK radio isn’t it?
You know Mr Swim? Cubase Score does this job and does it well. If you need to print out your music for others to play it.
Robert: in fact, as said before, I don’t quantize classical music, I play with care and then I would edit it in the edit and score windows for fine details. The Nature of God was quantized nevertheless, cos it has a continuous rhythm. Wrong, cos it killed quite a lot its expression.
Classical instruments samples are not the perfect thing I agree; these are very fine sounds that are difficult to get recorded at all, even with real bands… There is nothing like hear it live. Sound engineers say recording classical orchestras is extremely difficult.
Well, thanks for your replays again.
Yeah, did it work ?
But also, is it possible to get accelerando's etc in Cubase ? To actually get the midi clock to speed up ? This has been a real hinderance to me, as I do always use quantize, partly because I always write fusion - my music always has some sort of beat somewhere along the line . . .
But also, is it possible to get accelerando's etc in Cubase ? To actually get the midi clock to speed up ? This has been a real hinderance to me, as I do always use quantize, partly because I always write fusion - my music always has some sort of beat somewhere along the line . . .
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Nestor
- Posts: 6683
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
I like your question guys… 
In fact, I think we all feel “somebody” special for you is coming to share with you, the whole of life. Well, I didn’t mistaken. I did it for somebody I didn’t know, and when thinks came to term, I gave it to HER saying: “I’ve done it for you, about 4 years ago”. And guess what! She is going to be my wife. I’m going to marry her…
About Cubase being able to do such a thing as accelerandos and diminuendos yes, it does, sure it does. But when composing something that has a loose time, I prefer to just work directly with the real thing, and then get into the different edit functions fixing the little troubles I may have caused. It’s not as difficult as it seems… It’s a bit tedious, yes, but not as difficult as it seems to be. Give it a try, you’ll concentrate completely in the feelings of your music. If you can’t reach several notes to be together because the passage is very subtle, well, then you can go: Ctrl and E, beforehand selecting the tracks you would like to play the same tempo or nuance. Once you have selected them and have open the edit window, then you look for the note or notes you want to alter and move them together to the point you want. To do so, you need to work with the Snap to “Off”, allowing you to move the smallest bits of music.
Cheers.
In fact, I think we all feel “somebody” special for you is coming to share with you, the whole of life. Well, I didn’t mistaken. I did it for somebody I didn’t know, and when thinks came to term, I gave it to HER saying: “I’ve done it for you, about 4 years ago”. And guess what! She is going to be my wife. I’m going to marry her…
About Cubase being able to do such a thing as accelerandos and diminuendos yes, it does, sure it does. But when composing something that has a loose time, I prefer to just work directly with the real thing, and then get into the different edit functions fixing the little troubles I may have caused. It’s not as difficult as it seems… It’s a bit tedious, yes, but not as difficult as it seems to be. Give it a try, you’ll concentrate completely in the feelings of your music. If you can’t reach several notes to be together because the passage is very subtle, well, then you can go: Ctrl and E, beforehand selecting the tracks you would like to play the same tempo or nuance. Once you have selected them and have open the edit window, then you look for the note or notes you want to alter and move them together to the point you want. To do so, you need to work with the Snap to “Off”, allowing you to move the smallest bits of music.
Cheers.