Win10 Crackles

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

Moderators: valis, garyb

djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

The HPET setting isn't there.
You can disable it from windows device manager, go to Device Manager > System Devices > High Precision Event Timer

right click and select "Disable" and reboot.

If you don't see it, it's because it's not enabled on your system.
binaural
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by binaural »

Just to let you know: I switched off HPET in win10, but no luck.
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

Ok, if you have done every possible tweak, then as last resource, is the RAM ok? Are you using approved RAM as stated on the HP web site? Is the RAM inserted inside the correct channels? I have found a support page where a user asks for RAM compatibility and the answer also explains where to insert the RAM modules for proper operation.
Here:
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/ ... -my-system
Also inside the manual there are specifications for compatible RAM types and on page 17 it explains the different slots combination:
http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/pdf ... kSpecs.pdf
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

Also, after reading your benchmarks, i'm pointing you on some solutions related to directx and stuttering, trying it costs nothing, in short disable Control Flow Guard for Live.

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/possi ... f5.425353/
binaural
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by binaural »

Thanks mate!

I've put in two banks of 100% certified RAM for this machine in the right slots. And I've disabled Control Flow Guard.

Didn't help...:(
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

binaural wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 am Thanks mate!

I've put in two banks of 100% certified RAM for this machine in the right slots. And I've disabled Control Flow Guard.

Didn't help...:(
This is bad news, I'll let you know if I find some other possible solution that matches your problem.
User avatar
valis
Posts: 7451
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by valis »

It''s rare that approved RAM makes a difference, though in our current era using RAM that runs at JEDEC speeds versus XMP Profiles MAY in some cases improve stability (XMP overclocks RAM past JEDEC defaults, and changes timings, which in most cases is fine but it can reduce the lifespan of RAM or cause poorly binned chips to show flaws relatively quickly). On this era of machine, that's irrelevant. What certified DOES tell you is that the manufacturer 'approves' of it due to their testing, which of course can give peace of mind.

However I had stated somewhere above that 4GB of RAM is far too little for Win10 + Live. The dual core system I gave my daughter was only usable for light web browsing and low end gaming with 4GB ram, by upgrading it to 8GB it became immensely more responsive. If you're on a 64bit version of Live, 16GB might be better but I'm not sure 4GB DDR2 sticks are all that affordable outside of used on ebay, so 8GB is probably more reasonable. I bought new warranteed 4GB kits (2x2GB) on amazon for about $17.99 per kit (~$37 total including tax). They're certainly not certified since it's some "Kuesuny" brand, but stability tests with AIDA64 show no issues.

That probably won't solve your DPC latency issues however. Something on that system is not playing well...sorry to say.
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

valis wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:52 am It''s rare that certified RAM makes a difference, though in our current era using RAM that runs at JEDEC speeds versus XMP Profiles MAY in some cases improve stability (XMP overclocks RAM past JEDEC defaults, and changes timings, which in most cases is fine but it can reduce the lifespan of RAM or cause poorly binned chips to show flaws relatively quickly). On this era of machine, that's irrelevant. What certified DOES tell you is that the manufacturer 'approves' of it due to their testing, which of course can give peace of mind.

However I had stated somewhere above that 4GB of RAM is far too little for Win10 + Live. The dual core system I gave my daughter was only usable for light web browsing and low end gaming with 4GB ram, by upgrading it to 8GB it became immensely more responsive. If you're on a 64bit version of Live, 16GB might be better but I'm not sure 4GB DDR2 sticks are all that affordable outside of used on ebay, so 8GB is probably more reasonable. I bought new warranteed 4GB kits (2x2GB) on amazon for about $17.99 per kit (~$37 total including tax). They're certainly not certified since it's some "Kuesuny" brand, but stability tests with AIDA64 show no issues.

That probably won't solve your DPC latency issues however. Something on that system is not playing well...sorry to say.
Using approved RAM is the best way to avoid compatibility problems, especially on HP machine, but very often uncertified RAM works fine, also it's important to use the proper RAM slots when not all slots are used, so I tried to suggest checking it to exclude another possible issue.

I agree about memory amount, at least 16 GB should be installed for audio on windows 10 64 bit.

Also if the problem will not get solved, there is not reason to force the use of Windows 10 64 bit and the computer was running fine on win 7. I had a very good experience in the past with Windows 7 32 bit and PAE enabled to use more than 4GB.
User avatar
garyb
Moderator
Posts: 23282
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by garyb »

approved ram, yes. certified ram, not so much...

yes, at least 16gb of ram for win10 64bit...
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

garyb wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:59 am approved ram, yes. certified ram, not so much...
I meant approved
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

possible solution I have found on a forum marked as solved, it says to create a txt file that enable some hidden options in Live:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=231640
binaural
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by binaural »

Dear guys,

I want to thank you VERY MUCH for all the kind help. I've actually tried the Live options.txt and other Live settings to get things going. Even lowering frame rates on live to 20 fps and lowering the rate via the Nvidia app as well.

It did actually get a bit bitter, but it was still far from what it should be, even at 7 ms ULLI.

So, I guess my machine just is not up for it. That's too bad, because I bought an update to Live10 some time ago (which is 64 bit only) and I really like the new features.

But, I'm afraid I'll have to go back to WIN7. Nothing wrong with that, other than the obsolete security updates) and refraining from Live 10. It did run like fire (lowest possible ULLI with no crackle whatsoever) and will get me to make music again.

Maybe I'll go and buy a new MOBO, processor and RAM and start over again with that. Not sure if I can fit that in my PC case, but I'll figure that out...

So, another very big THANK YOU! As I can't send you dutch stroopwafels through the wire, I'll make another donation to this great forum. Consider that my gift for your kindness..

Cheers,
Jasper
User avatar
valis
Posts: 7451
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by valis »

Thanks for the donation.

Fwiw, I bought Live10 but still use 9 on my aging (Mac Pro) desktop because 10 uses more resources and thus gives less performance. Live 10 is on my newer (Win10) Machine and a laptop...and my Scope PC does little besides Scope now (oh and dates back to 2001).
roberflash
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:45 am

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by roberflash »

Try to try a new installation of the operating system or even windows 8.1
binaural
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by binaural »

Maybe it's due to solar flare activity last night, but somehow I got WIN10 going fairly well... I'm thrilled and dazzled!

So I decided to go back to WIN7. I didn't want to take any risk, so I put in the old GPU. In WIN7 I found out I still had to de-activate a plugin that I left activated in WIN10 (for an USAMO sync box). I didn't bother switching back to the new GPU before connecting the WIN10 drive and start, so I left in the old.

I thought: let's try and fire up Live for an ultimate try... And: crackling was almost gone! Even at lowest ULLI.

LatencyMon gives satisfying results, on idle and even at full ASIO load. There's just the occasional crackle as long as I don't do anything else. With a less than lowest ULLI crackling is gone!

I did NOT install the WIN10 driver (but maybe WIN10 did automatically) for the old GPU.

So I guess all the tweaks I made last week (in WIN10 and Live) did some good after all...

I'm a happy fellow! Thanks again for all your kind help! I'm off making an ISO backup of the current OS drive...:)

Cheers,
Jasper
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

Excellent news :)
User avatar
valis
Posts: 7451
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by valis »

From the link to the Ableton forum above:
The file name is Options.txt and the option is -_ForceGdiBackend
GDI+ is XP era (GDI for NT4/Win98/ME). My understanding was that the DWM didn't allow GDI+ to run any longer but rather ran it emulated. Either way, glad that this got it working, interesting that it kicked it when you put the old GPU back in. Just documenting this as it may be needed info later when u have to sort this out again (due to OS updates or who knows).
djmicron
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Milano

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by djmicron »

valis wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:04 pm From the link to the Ableton forum above:
The file name is Options.txt and the option is -_ForceGdiBackend
GDI+ is XP era (GDI for NT4/Win98/ME). My understanding was that the DWM didn't allow GDI+ to run any longer but rather ran it emulated. Either way, glad that this got it working, interesting that it kicked it when you put the old GPU back in. Just documenting this as it may be needed info later when u have to sort this out again (due to OS updates or who knows).
Found it on Ableton forums, so it's something specific to Ableton Live, there are several threads about how to trick GDI on stackoverflow if you take a look.
User avatar
valis
Posts: 7451
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Win10 Crackles

Post by valis »

link(s)? Not sure what you mean by 'trick GDI', curious to know more.

It's clear Live can force it, though I'm sure it runs emulated and then the DWM handles final compositing. Explorer.exe relies on the DWM and starts it as soon as it starts, and the only way to fully kill it is to also kill explorer. On Win8 you could just put a different file in place of the dwm executable (like rundll32) and stop it permanently that way.

In any case I was mostly logging the mentioned correlation of changing the card then Live seemingly being more responsive. Not a fan of things that magically work personally because when they stop working again it's probably important to be able to replicate the fix without any unnecessary hand-waving and bit-flipping thrown into the mix.
Post Reply