anyone use EW symphonic choir?

[kensuguro]

wondering if anyone here uses EW symphonic choir. Nice way to synthesize words, or at least some form of control anyway. I was thinking of getting into choir stuff, but didn't want to stick to oos and ahhs, so looking for something that does minimal synthesis of whatever phonemes. Vocaloid seemed interesting but it's far from convincing.

I'm wondering how versatile the synthesis approach is though. Like can I make it sing September? Will it take 5 years to make it sound right? With Vocaloid, I remember the interface for setting up the "speech" was quite overwhelming, since you essentially had to animate each phoneme on a time line. (within the VSTi, and not within the DAW) Reminded me of 3D animation timelines. And then in the end, vocaloid's output was quite underwhelming for the amount of work it took to get anything remotely intelligible.

[Nestor]

There isn't, at the moment (yet), any library that would allow you to really flow into this job and then have respectable final results. You can do wonderful choir without wording nevertheless kind of AA OO UU, MM, but when it comes to using words, I would suggest using a real choir, otherwise it is a headache and the time spend does not match the music you get out of it. I don't think you can do any serious job with the libraries in offer today, none will do.

Now, using and mixing together both none wording samples with real singers can give you really fantastic results. This is what I eventually do, getting great results.

I have a 3 piece serious project for next year that will go this path. I have already hired four singers: two females and two mails with very differnet timbers and will make them record three times on top of the virtual choir the same phrases, that will be enough to get a credible performance.

Then, what I do is multiplying the real voices into 24 tracks, very slightly changing formants to fake different timbers, and then I mix this "half real" choir, while in the other hand, with a sample library, I get close to the vowels pronounced in the background, without any detail, then EQ them slightly darker cutting high frequencies, giving the real choir a brighter tone so the words are crisp. When finished, you cannot really distinguish there are people not pronouncing the words and people pronouncing them, you would rather assume the whole of the choir is singing the same words.

If you record a real performance with 100 voices, versus this option, obviously, the real voices will sound better and more intelligible, but common, this is an affordable option for a choir that will sound nevertheless moving and alive.

[dante]

Youre best solution if its a male chior, overdub yourself 24 times ( 8 x bass + 8 x tenor + 8 x alto ).

For female, do same with your wife.

This technique works, I have used it many times in my Rock Opera demo tracks. Of course for a live show a live chior would be substituted.

Your voice works - dont forget your comedy fanbase :

vhs-demo-fans

vhs-demo-fans.JPG (12.62 KiB) Viewed 970 times

[braincell]

Hello Kensuguro

I have both Symphonic Choirs and Vocaloid. Vocaloid is way easier but does not sound as good. Symphonic Choirs will give you a lot of headaches because of of the horrible phase alignment problems. I don't use it in stereo. It also is not so stable. Neither program is a joy to use! Don't bother using Vocaloid as a VSTi. If you don't mind the trouble of it, Symphonic Choirs sounds much better. Neither program will give you words easy to understand most of the time.

Vocaloid does come in a version for Cubase if you use Cubase. It's in Japanese only though. It's called Vocaloid For Cubase. That would be the most fun. Vocaloid will progress but slowly. With Symphonic Choirs you are stuck with that and it is already old. I think it will be orphaned.

Mike Oldfield used an old Vocaloid.

[Neil B]

Hi Ken
I've put you a demo up on Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/neil-buxton/

It's a track called Agnus Dei

The first section is vocaloid Lola with Spectrasonics Symphony of Voices (she's singing "Lamb of God")
EWQLS Choirs come in with "Mercy.....etc"
Mercy, Have Mercy
Mercy, Have Mercy
Lamb of God
Who takes away our sins
Have mercy, have mercy, have mercy on us.

At the same time, the EW choirs are also singing some of it in harmony, but in latin (Miserere Nobis etc)

I used Soprano, Alto & Tenor but no bass as there was enough going on with the bass line.
I did this a few years ago now and it was my first attempt with EW choirs & second with Lola.

Realistically, Lola is still a toy. It's hard work to get anything real out of it & at 61,, life is too short
I plan to do a lot more with EW choirs and from what I did a few years ago, I think it'll be worth it.

I do agree with other comments though - these tools are always going to be hard work and some of the words that sound right for, say the tenors, then sound wrong for the altos. They need patience.
Notice the word "takes" in "takes away our sins" - I could not get this word right, but I could've persevered.

I think the old EW demos sounded okay but they didn't really go into great detail about building a full piece.

Hope this helps and sorry about the delay - just got back from the Scottish Highlands after a couple of weeks high hills walking, mountain biking & quad biking. Wonderful couple of weeks watching the deer rut, salmon leaping, mountain hares & even watched a white-tailed eagle (but you didn't want to know that !!)

Neil

P.S - just remembered statements from the past that EW Choirs were meant to be a choir accompanying an orchestra, and in the real world you can never tell what they're saying most of the time anyway !! So I suppose it depends on how you intend to use them.
Oh, and installation can be a pig !!

Neil

[kensuguro]

Thanks for the demo Neil. And hearing about your first hand experience definitely helps. It definitely sounds like one of those tools that may suck up more time than necessary to get minimally useful results. My interest in chorus was more of a curious "well now that there are tools that work it may be worth messing around with", but it sounds like getting useful results involves much more than the time I can invest. I mean, good things don't come for free, but I also don't want what is meant to be a creative exploration to become the most constrictive part of the process. If it's a life or death situation, I can just grab a mic and sing it, like Dante says.

[Neil B]

I am here to serve
Glad it helped