DAS compressors and lowend stereo image / mid res

[Yogimeister]

Hi,

I am getting to know the DAS compressor suite and I noticed that with the LA-2 and 660 (and perhaps other non-DAS compressors) the low end stereo image is narrower and there seems to be a bit of resonance or "presence" in the mid range (seems to me almost like maybe some sort of stereo phase compensation that forces the lows to mono while causing phasing in the mids or some sort of resonant low-shelf/cut ...)

This seems to be the case even with no actual compression ....
I didnt notice it using the DAS 1600+



Have you guys experienced this ?
(@Gary , you said u use the 660 over most of your tracks ...)

Is this a "wanted effect" that correlates with the sound of the original equipment ?

Any way to cancel this "artifact" ?

I kindof dont like this effect on most tracks (i might use it as some sort of compiment to channels that i want to low-cut - but it is a bit of handicap... Especially in a masterbus scenario ...)


Thanx

[garyb]

yeah, it's similar to the originals, i don't know if it's on purpose.
just because it works for me, doesn't mean you should use it. that's why there are so many different choices. some sound better than others for specific uses.

[Yogimeister]

Hmmmm .... Im diving a bit deeper (im working on a track so its not my main focus) ...
I was just flipping the multifx with some compressors on and off (and also a/b ing the compressors inside it)


Could it be that the "MultiFX S" device used in a regular STM insert slot alters the sound ?
(It is as if the lows and highs are cut maybe ... ? It sounds as if the sonic image (where high freqs are up and lows are down) loses the top and lower margins - the kick loses a bit of low rumble and the tops lose a bit of their "frazzled" sizzle ....

I seem to be noticing it mostly if the phase compensation is on ....


Anyone experience this ?

[garyb]

i hadn't seen this issue. i don't use the multifx very often, but i hadn't noticed it in the past.
i'm not sure what you are hearing, but i don't have anything ugly happening in my system. is this on a channel insert or a master insert? i only use the 660 on an individual track, instrument, voice, usually.
just how many plugins are you running? to see what the compressor does, first insert it into a track with no other inserts. then try it in the multifx. does it behave the same way both times?

do you have the same stream processed on parallel tracks?

perhaps the project is corrupted. do you get the same result on all projects? does it help if it's a new project built from scratch?

[Yogimeister]

I will try playing around with it ...
The "spectral change" is kindof subtle ....

i was experiencing it last night when using a nested multifx inside a multifx on the masterbus (stm24 mixer) which i used to add different compressors to the master chain
(I like the multifx because bypassing a device unloads the dsp processing and i dont have too many slots in the stm for each channel ...)

I am not using any parallel devices/routing (didnt even use the stm busses on this project yet ...)



I will record a few snippets and compare them offline (and upload them here ...)

I will also try it with a blank new project .... (My current project is not acting "corrupted"


Thanks

[garyb]

i wouldn't be surprised if nested multifx inserts created some phase anomalies...

[Yogimeister]

OK .... here is some Audio ....

I ran my current project with no devices on the master bus - and then with only MultiFX (empty), LA-2, 660 and the new HPM VChannel MasterBus device ...
(2 bars each, in the above order)
(All compressors were set to minimum Threshold/No compression)

You can listen to the audio here (The nuances are small - but notice the bottom end and try flicking between the first "Dry" segment and the others (LA,660)

Mili Scope Test.zip

2 bars each - no devices on the master bus - Dry and then with only MultiFX (empty), LA-2, 660 and the new HPM VChannel MasterBus device ...

(5.5 MiB) Downloaded 78 times

I also did a "A-B" comparison between the dry "No FX" version and the other versions (The first two bars are silent because of full cancellation) - Beware of loud-ish clicks in the track (Phase file) .... Where you can more clearly hear the differences (albeit maybe the devices on the Masterbus affect the phase of the output ....)

Mili Scope Test - Phase.zip

A-B comparison between the dry "No FX" version and the other versions (The first two bars are silent because of full cancellation) - Beware of loud-ish clicks in the track

(3.95 MiB) Downloaded 85 times

Please tell me what you think - Do you experience this?
do you find this desirable ? Is this "That sound" of the LA-2 ?

(and P.S. and @Peter HPM - isnt the Master V-Channel a bit too heavy on the lows ??)


Thanks in advance ...

[fra77x]

Have you tried loading the device (s) on a specific dsp?

[Yogimeister]

Have you tried loading the device (s) on a specific dsp?

No, though i think they are inside the mixer I cannot (or am i mistaken)

I think the mixer is set to board1 - but not sure ....


Any special actions you think i should take? (besides trying to flip the stm24 allocation to board 1,2,3 )
(Im not usinf the SDK or something ...)

[fra77x]

Put the multi-fx or straight the device not in the insert slot of the mixer but between your source signal and the mixer's channel (i.e. on the project window). Load it on a specific dsp. (in software 5.1)

[Yogimeister]

OK.

The mixer was not allocated to a board .... I tried allocating it but (with 24 connected Stereo channels, no master effects and a bit of mixing effects such as fat and a compressor or 2) although my jar is at about 45% I get a dsp allocation error whichever board I try (I have a luna and 2x6DSP pulsars)

I have Scope (**PCI**) 5.1 (maybe should have mentioned that)- could not find a way to allocate a device in the routing window to a specific board (not to mention DSP) ...
Any tips on this ?

[fra77x]

Look every dsp can handle a certain number of cycles. To be able to load a device on a specific dsp that device should fit on one dsp. I think the dsps of the PCI boards can handle each 1200 cycles on 48000 Hz, or 600 cycles on 96000 Hz. On the xite the new dsps can handle 3100 on 96000 Hz and 6200 at 48000 Hz.

So don't try to load the mixer but try to load the specific effect you are trying to test.

[Yogimeister]

I am running on 44.1KH

How can I allocate a certain device to a certain (or any single) dsp ? I looked hard but couldnt find an option ....

Regarding allocating the mixer - I understood that it is better to allocate it to the first board with the active IOs .... right ?
(in any case - at the moment I think maybe just 24 ASIO channels connected to a STM24 is too much for a single board of mine ... My new PC will house my 15DSP boards ....)

[fra77x]

ddd.jpg

Right click on the dev...

[Yogimeister]

I dont have that option in my device menu ....

Maybe it's an XITE feature ...

[fra77x]

Ok i'm not sure. In my pci system i have sfp 3.1c.

Have you tried with another device (not the DAS comp) because if i remember correctly it works also at the pci systems.

Try with the multi fx (on the project window) The devices loaded on it should follow the dsp assignment.

[Yogimeister]

yes, of course ... I tried several devices (PEQ4, MultiFX, HPM Control ....) I think I read before that it's an XITE only feature ....

(I really did look hard ...

[fra77x]

Ok no luck then

[Yogimeister]

Thanks anyway ...

(Also waiting for Gary's input ....

(Did you ever encounter something like this on PCI or when the devices are not allocated ?)

[garyb]

i don't see why you'd want to use either limiter for a mix like that, but that's just me. those devices are more suited to individual tracks, imo.

i'm not sure i'm hearing the problem on my internet computer's playback system.