linux - DSSI synths actually sounded pretty good

[kensuguro]

As many of you may know, my dream is that some day I'd be able to do some serious production in linux. I've heavily used linux at work in the past and always have some variant of ubuntu installed on my home machine. (though not specifically set up for audio)

I've tried several times in the past, putting serious time into getting a working MIDI based DAW setup going with just opensource stuff. I tried Rosegarden, LMMS, etc. My feeling is that the foundation, on the OS side is pretty solid. JACK works great, OS itself isn't full of crap.. But the DAW side was always a problem. Rosegarden was kinda clunky, LMMS is more of a fruity loops clone and I can't work in the fruity loops paradigm. VST support is also an issue since most opensource DAW don't have it on by default, although you can get the SDK from steinberg and compile the DAW yourself with VST capability turned on. Bit of a drag but not impossible if you're familiar with linux. (where compiling on your own is generally more common compared to other OS)

A few nights ago, I came across a sequencer/DAW called Qtractor. The interface seemed familiar so I must have checked it out a while back, but I thought why not give it a go. I got it set up with all the LADSPA/LV2/DSSI plugins I could find from package manager, and started messing around. There was some trouble in telling Qtractor where the plugins were, but once that was done, everything worked. (I didn't mess with VST integration)

Ironically, this was the first time I've ever seen a DSSI synth in action. I've never gotten them to work in a DAW before. The interface is all ugly and slightly jarring to use, but hey, they're still knobs and faders anyway so they're "workable". I tried the handful that I had access to: Whysynth, Xsynth, DX7 clone, and a couple more. They all sounded pretty good to me.

My first reaction was to start making some drums sounds to lay down drum tracks, but unfortunately these general purpose synths didn't have the right EG (decay times are very slow) and also mod routing capabilities (add 2nd EG for "snap" on kick) to do good drum sounds so I had to give up. They're good general VA synths tho, structurally very versatile and capable. Anyone recommend a good drum synth that's ladspa/lv2/dssi? Maybe I should just build me one in Alsa modular or Om/Ingen?

Just looking at this screenshot of Om/Inget turns me on.

Qtractor itself was nice to work in. Since I couldn't get drums, I didn't get into heavy sequencing, but just tried recording a few tracks, move clips around, basic editing stuff like that. For me, Qtractor reminds me of Reaper. It's sort of bare bones and overall feels feature light (might not actually be, but "feels" light) and a very no-nonesense interface that's all business. I still need to give it a serious test drive, but at this point, I feel I can actually get some work done in Qtractor. Big improvement from all the other trial runs. Of course, the problem of many of the ladspa/lv2/dssi plugins (effects) not sounding wonderful still remains, but I can just use VST. Although I'd like to see how far I can push the opensource ones. They're not horrible, they're just not impressive.

Qtractor looks like the common denominator of all non Live inspired DAWs.

So, things are starting to look up for my linux DAW dream. Definitely won't compare just yet to my Live/VST setup, but seems like a worthwhile tinkering project.

[jksuperstar]

Just as an option, Bitwig should be available for Linux, if it isn't already. It uses PortAudio and Java, so there's been some question to it's nimbleness regarding CPU use, but hey, it has some serious development around it.

It's very cool that you are into Linux. about 5 years ago, I had started my own live-disk based distro. I had chosen a live disk system, since they tend to load everything into RAM on boot, and then start running. With a PC with 4GB-16GB of RAM, this felt incredibly fast, and I could save my entire environment and send it to a friend to recreate everything I had. It was very cool. But I also had a similar issue as you....the tools are 'fun' if you have LOTS of time to play, but not so much rubber on the road, so to speak.

[kensuguro]

Yes, bitwig sure is a possibility. I also have EnergyXT license, which runs in linux as well, though of a different caliber. I think for me it's partially about pushing opensource stuff to its maximum potential though. I can see that an app I've purchased is supposed to work right. If it doesn't that'd be a bigger problem. But anyway, just seeing how far the opensource tools have come is encouraging.

The problem's multilayered... First it's the bad DAW. With a bad DAW I won't care how good the opensource plugins are. Regardless of the plugin's functionality, I won't be able to write the music to apply them to. Then there's the plugins themselves. Their functionality or general broken-ness. And including heavy weights like bitwig and also pure breed opensource apps like qtractor, the DAW side seems to be opening up, so I can finally take a look into the plugins. Of course, I'm not anticipating any pleasant surprises there, but they're also not utter crap, so I should be able to coerce some sort of result out of them.

At the very least, if I have 1 synth that can also make drum sounds, an eq, comp, a saturator or overdrive, and a master limiter, I should be able to crank something out. Not that high of a hurdle I think.

[dawman]

That looks exactly like Bidule, which I love and have several skins for.
You never know how light or dark a venue is going to be and Bidule can change skins, as well as Silentway in a second.

Interesting stuff 4 sho.

[kensuguro]

Ahh, good old Linux audio. Alsa modular seems to not be "integratable" to Qtractor, or basically it doesn't have a plug in form, so I was going to try Ingen instead. Ingen is supposedly the new version of the Om modular synth, which is usually included in older distros. Now the only way to get it is to check it out via svn and build the whole thing myself. No problemo, I'm a coder and am not afraid of building. I've used svn for work and now use git all the time.

But man, have I already spent 5 hours trying to figure out all the dependencies.. So I guess so much for Ingen. It was supposed to run as a LV2 plugin within Qtractor. Great in theory. I'll meditate on it overnight and enjoy the thought rather than the application.

Though Qtractor is very promising and there are a handful of promising synths, I guess we're not too far where I left off with the whole linux audio thing. It didn't take too long 'till my main focus turned to compiling code, neck deep in the terminal. Hey, whatever happened to composing? I'm not hearing any music.. all I see is a screen full of compile errors. Oh, and I just realized Qtractor uninstalled itself and is nowhere to be found. lol.. I mean, wtf is going on here..


Oh gee, and JACK is totally messed up now. I can't even start it up. Oh well, so much for trying I guess, I pretty much trashed my setup in 1 day's session.

[garyb]

music, new stuff, or computers. which is more important?

[jksuperstar]

Hahaha, well, if you have to rebuild your system, why not try BeOS, or it's new rebirth as Haiku?


BeOS was like Atari on PCs...super fast, and real-time media processing done well long before ASIO and core audio were even thought of. I don't have much to say for the apps available though.

[kensuguro]

I remember beOS, was kinda hyped up when it came out and seemed like it immediately fizzled into digital nothingness.

[braincell]

I know another musician with the same "dream." I don't know why people bother with this. Windows and Mac OS are so good.

[jksuperstar]

Linux has the ability to be tuned for specific purposes. Once it went embedded, it is now at the heart of almost every internet-attached TV box, most smart phones, and probably a toaster or coffee machine.

If an audio dedicated OS could be developed, then it's possible to see a slew of "hardware" sequencers, synths, and other doodads that could make a studio very cool. (imagine every hardware synth support something like Copperlan, where all control is seemlessly connected into your DAW, without a separate VST for it).

So, it's all about possibilities.

[braincell]

I will believe that the day I witness it do something amazing that I can't already do,

[dawman]

I have always wanted an audio OS for realtime work, but since I have Scope I can wait another 10 years for one.
Having to ask the CPU for permission everytime you want something will never be overcome by brute speed, but rather RISC processing or a dedicated OS, like Klaus and Bowen made for Solaris.

That Dog Hunts...

[kensuguro]

I think for me it's one of those things.. Like when you see something that looks like you can jump and touch. So you jump and try to touch it. As for this excursion, I jumped, reached up high, and then a truck landed on me and exploded.

I've done this so many times that the jumping and reaching part in itself has become somewhat of a game.

[hubird]

some day it will pay off...

[dawman]

Don't worry Ken, I too suffer every time I try and re educate myself in Modular.
But it's always good to set your sites high. The pressure of learning is valuable.
After all Diamonds are simply Coal from years of pressure.