64 Bit - not again

[fraz]

Hi,

I've been looking into the dreaded 64 Bit quest so I can access more RAM on the computers-

When Scope 6 is here it will be 64 bit I've read somewhere here on the forum. If my system was suitable will I be able to use the Scope Pro, Pulsar 2 PCI cards etc...... with Scope 6 and a 64 bit system. Just planning the best way round this and its a complete pain....

[garyb]

sure, that's all true, but v5.1 is fine in 64bit.

[fraz]

Ah that's good news Gary so I've got no worries -

I've got 5.1 with the Xite-1

On the PCI cards PC its 5.0.267 - If I wish to use 5.1 on this will I need to buy an extra copy or can I use the 5.1 that I already have? - Hopefully so....
and Windows 7 Ultimate is covered isn't it for 5.1 (I think probably yes but I'm checking up)-

[fraz]

Gee----Just looked at the 5.1 disc and its got windows 7 on the front....-

and the same for 64 bit..... .......

[garyb]

keys belong to a card's(or XITE's) serial number. they do not belong to the owner of the card. you wouldn't be able to use your license for the XITE to run the PCI card in v5.1. you would need to purchase the upgrade, discounted since you already have v5.
http://www.sonic-core.net/shop/product_ ... E-5-0.html

yes, v5.1 works with XP, win7 and win 8, 32 and 64bit. v5 will work with win7 and win8, but only 32bit.

[fraz]

OK Gary I understand----I'll buy an upgrade for this shortly...

So, out of interest the 5.1 that shipped with the Xite-1 would not work at all (if it was attempted) as it wouldn't match up to the serial number of the Xite-1? -

[garyb]

it will work fine for the XITE-1. the same keyfile that works with 32bit Scope v5.1 for the XITE-1 works in 64bit.

the PCI card needs to be upgraded to function in 64bit windows if you only have a v5 keyfile and not a v5.1 one.

[fraz]

it will work fine for the XITE-1. the same keyfile that works with 32bit Scope v5.1 for the XITE-1 works ifor n 64bit.

the PCI card needs to be upgraded to function in 64bit windows if you only have a v5 keyfile and not a v5.1 one.

The PCI card needs to be upgraded for 64 bit Windows???- Is this a physical upgrade to the PCI card? - hope not-

I've decided to keep the PCI cards in the 32 bit computer - but it would be nice to have the option of using the PCI cards in a 64 bit computer-but if any modification is needed to the Scope Pro etc... I'd leave it

Or have I mis-understood this (again)? - If Scope 5.1 was purchased the PCI cards would work in Windows 7 64 Bit? = hopefully this is the case

[garyb]

yes, buy v5.1 and they will work in 64bit.

the sale link is still up, use it.

[fraz]

yes, buy v5.1 and they will work in 64bit.

the sale link is still up, use it.

Yes I've just remembered in time and now ordered -The plugs and the 5.1 will come in very useful

Its good to know too another PC can be built if need be for 64 bit but in the meantime I've managed to get FX Teleport to work with XP for non-dongled VSTi so I'll need that 32 bit PC connected for the time being BUT talk of Copper LAN - I don't know if this will do the same thing (I know its MIDI) but don't know what the full possibilities are yet.

The Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 looks great for Windows 7 upwards LAN connected which is why I've been trying to work something out for myself that will be great to work with no matter what level I'm at - OK if your a TECH guru but I'm not - sorry for going off topic there

[fraz]

I think I read somewhere here on the forum that there are some elements of Scope 5.1 that don't work with 64 bit?

But is this the PCI cards or the Xite-1 itself or both? - Reason for asking is the possibility of putting the PCI cards in a newer machine to access more system resources............

[djmicron]

i tested 64 bit only with the xite, there are problems with the samplers and vdat.

I use for the most of the tasks 32 bit win 7 with PAE enabled, it can use up to 64 GB of ram on 32 bits and it works like a charm, on reaper i launch samplers as separate tasks so that each sampler task can use up to 3 GB of ram.

[fraz]

PAE enabled? - Whats this?

And 64GB RAM on Windows 7 32 bits?---

The Reaper Tasks you mention - 3GB's per task so you can use up to 64GB RAM? - Presumably this is exclusive to Reaper eg. no other DAW would do this in the way you do? - OR is this a function of Xite-1 for memory allocation? - Please explain

[djmicron]

what i mean is that we can use up to 64 GB of ram on win7/8 32 bit and that the total memory allocatable for each process is 3 GB, so in the example of virtual samplers, if we run them as dedicated process, each one can use 3 GB.
On reaper there is a specific "run as" option for each plugin to run it as dedicated process and other workstations should be able to do something of similar.

This doesn't change how scope works, it remains limited to 2 GB of ram, but on 32 bit it doesn't have the known problems with samplers, vdat, etc. and at the same time we can run other applications, such as native samplers without the limitation of the overall system ram that on 32 bit is under 4 GB without PAE.

To enable PAE on windows 7/8 we need to add the option using the command line utility "bcedit", but there is a ready to use patch that do it automatically at the following link:

http://www.saferbytes.it/2013/02/28/saf ... ld-is-out/

after the introduction there is a download link, run the file and choose the mbr option, then if all is fine, your system will have all installed ram after the reboot.

To enable it with command line:

run cmd as administrator, then enter "BCDedit /set PAE forceenable" without the quotes and reboot, the same to disable it by entering "BCDedit /set PAE forcedisable".

I tested PAE on my system with xite and never had problems, but i can't say if it will work on every system.

[vascomusic]

More info about Large Memory Support for Windows 32bit
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... s.85).aspx

PAE X86 Technical Reference
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... s.10).aspx

[fraz]

DJMicron & others,

Gee if that's going to work it would make a huge difference to the 2 PC's with XP (but I could do something on Windows 7) on - one would be able to house 16GB DDR2 whilst the other 8GB- with Intel Q9450 & Q9550 cpu's-

It still seems too good to be true but would get more use out of the two machines- On this PC's the typical software would be the likes of Cubase SX/4/6 - FL Studio, Live, Reason, Orion, Arturia Storm 3 - With VSTi's like NI and other favourites - Now, you mentioned virtual samplers above but what about VSTi's - Would everything* be able to access ALL this memory if I followed your instructions as above?-

I'd much rather go without the PAE or any serious tweaks as I'm no IT specialist so the link to the patch is most welcome if it works-

The remaining issue would be to check some boxes in the softwares above if they exist- What are your thoughts on this please? - I'd need to buy more RAM so to do this I'd need to know it would work on pretty much everything. -

Another DAW would be the older VST 5.2 -

[djmicron]

DJMicron & others,

Gee if that's going to work it would make a huge difference to the 2 PC's with XP (but I could do something on Windows 7) on - one would be able to house 16GB DDR2 whilst the other 8GB- with Intel Q9450 & Q9550 cpu's-

It still seems too good to be true but would get more use out of the two machines- On this PC's the typical software would be the likes of Cubase SX/4/6 - FL Studio, Live, Reason, Orion, Arturia Storm 3 - With VSTi's like NI and other favourites - Now, you mentioned virtual samplers above but what about VSTi's - Would everything* be able to access ALL this memory if I followed your instructions as above?-

I'd much rather go without the PAE or any serious tweaks as I'm no IT specialist so the link to the patch is most welcome if it works-

The remaining issue would be to check some boxes in the softwares above if they exist- What are your thoughts on this please? - I'd need to buy more RAM so to do this I'd need to know it would work on pretty much everything. -

Another DAW would be the older VST 5.2 -

Hi fraz, i enabled PAE on 2 win7 32 bit pc's and it makes a big difference and it doesn't work on xp, so it's only for windows 7/8.
Let say i have 16 GB of ram on a 32 bit windows system, it only can use 3 GB without PAE and this is shared over all running processes, so once the limit is reached the virtual ram will be used to swap the data to disk, slowing down the system performance.
With PAE enabled, all 16 GB of ram memory will be available and each process can use 3 GB, so if i have 4 instances of emulator x, each one using 1 GB of ram, i stll have 12 GB of free ram for the other processes and the overall system performance.
I use reaper as my main DAW, so i can't say how cubase or other DAW's can manage plugins instances, on cubase a workaround could be to use jbridge that will run each plugin as separate process, as it is stated on jbridge site:

Using inter-process communication mechanisms, it aims to make it possible to run 32bit plugins in 64bit hosts, 64bit plugins in 32bit hosts, or even bridging 32bit plugins to 32bit hosts, allowing to overcome the memory limitations of a single 32bit process, in this last case.

[Eanna]

Very interesting post DJMicron... thanks.

Of the four technologies presented here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... s.85).aspx
which have you enabled (aside from PAE)?
(From my reading, looks like 4GT (4-Gig Tuning) contributes to individual processes addressing more RAM).

I'm a big fan of my Emulator x3 too.. with its SynthSwipe feature I can resample Scope synths and hardware synths... Powerful support for multi's too.
But I've used Emulator X3 as a VSTi in my DAW.
Do you use some routing software like Bidule to support the inter-process midi and audio streams?

Fraz, if you aren't tied to instantiating these as VSTi's in your VST host, and instead launch your synths as standalones (like Kontakt / Reaktor), each standalone process can then address a larger portion of RAM.
What's not clear to me is how Automation Data in your DAW will communicate with these standalone processes.

[djmicron]

Of the four technologies presented here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 18(v=vs.85).aspx
which have you enabled (aside from PAE)?
(From my reading, looks like 4GT (4-Gig Tuning) contributes to individual processes addressing more RAM).

4GT is used here.

I'm a big fan of my Emulator x3 too.. with its SynthSwipe feature I can resample Scope synths and hardware synths... Powerful support for multi's too.
But I've used Emulator X3 as a VSTi in my DAW.
Do you use some routing software like Bidule to support the inter-process midi and audio streams?

I use the emu-x as vst inside reaper as dedicated process, it is underrated and it has a very good workflow, modulation matrix, filters, etc., if i need to use other standalone audio soft, such as virtualdj, i use it over rearoute and for midi routing, copperlan is fine.