Masterverb Test Thread

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Bud Weiser »

garyb wrote:sure, but it was VERY expensive back then and the computer had plenty of it.

as with everything in life, there was give and take in the design.
Now, we have 12x 32MB RAM in the XITE-1,- 384MB of unused memory ...

Wouldn´t it be an idea to use that for reverbs and/ or all of the memory intensive devices to reduce PCI / PCIe traffic to the computer´s memory.
I don´t think it would be possible to make the computer RAM obsolete but I think it would help to use XITE RAM up to that point where the computer RAM becomes essential.

I´m not able to describe that like an engineer does but as a musician I could imagine modulation-devices using short delays or stuff producing early reflections or smaller rooms as well as all the chorus stuff in synth devices could use that RAM we find in newer SHARC chips.
I don´t know how much RAM is needed for delays beyond 500ms, but eventually everything up to 500ms might work w/ XITE - internal RAM.

There´s a lot unused potential in the XITE up to now as we also see w/ DJMicron´s optimized devices.

Bud
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garyb
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by garyb »

yeah well, when things are designed the engineers try to think about the future, but at the same time, they try to make something that works for everybody and is backwards compatible. no doubt there is untapped potential and this could be tapped potential if someone wanted to pay for it.
Analog_Minded
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Analog_Minded »

Ok so here are my test results:

after 11 masterverbs i got pci overflow massage.
How's that performance wise?

My specs:

GA p35 ds3 rev2.0
Q6600
2x 1gb ddrII 6400 cheap ass ram
hd 6950 (will be replaced by fan less card)
2 pulsar II and & Luna II (15 dsp)
1 uad I (other 2 out of system for the moment)
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garyb
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by garyb »

good.
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Stevil
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Stevil »

i posted this in my build thread, thot i'd share here. PCI caps out at 13. follow the link for system details.
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Shamk
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Shamk »

1) MSI P45 NEO3 FR
Intel E8500 on LGA775 (4 PCI)

2) 3x 6DSP Pulsar II on scope 5.1 - 64 bits

4) 12 Masterverbs (13 MV cause PCI overload)
Creamware Scope 5.1 (Scope Power Pulsar 1.01|3 x Pulsar II|Pulsar I|Syncplate), scope abuser since 2004.
Asus Z87-K C2|Intel Haswell Core i7-4770|Kingston KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX - 2 x 4 Gb Ram (1600 MHz)
13 MV @ Masterverb Test
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Shamk
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Shamk »

1) Asus Z87-K C2
Intel Haswell Core i7-4770
Kingston KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX - 2 x 4 Gb Ram (1600 MHz)

2) 3x 6DSP Pulsar II on scope 5.1 - 64 bits

3) Integrated graphics on i7 CPU.

4) 13 Masterverbs (14 MV cause PCI overload)


Now is the time to fight against IRQ Sharing ! :(

@diegomaggi : how did you manage the sharing ?
Creamware Scope 5.1 (Scope Power Pulsar 1.01|3 x Pulsar II|Pulsar I|Syncplate), scope abuser since 2004.
Asus Z87-K C2|Intel Haswell Core i7-4770|Kingston KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX - 2 x 4 Gb Ram (1600 MHz)
13 MV @ Masterverb Test
jksuperstar
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by jksuperstar »

Bud Weiser wrote:Now, we have 12x 32MB RAM in the XITE-1,- 384MB of unused memory ...

Wouldn´t it be an idea to use that for reverbs and/ or all of the memory intensive devices to reduce PCI / PCIe traffic to the computer´s memory.
I don´t think it would be possible to make the computer RAM obsolete but I think it would help to use XITE RAM up to that point where the computer RAM becomes essential.

I´m not able to describe that like an engineer does but as a musician I could imagine modulation-devices using short delays or stuff producing early reflections or smaller rooms as well as all the chorus stuff in synth devices could use that RAM we find in newer SHARC chips.
I don´t know how much RAM is needed for delays beyond 500ms, but eventually everything up to 500ms might work w/ XITE - internal RAM.

There´s a lot unused potential in the XITE up to now as we also see w/ DJMicron´s optimized devices.

Bud
32MB / (96KHz * 4B ) = 83.333 seconds
*4B means 4 bytes per 32bit sample
96kHz is the highest sample rate (worst case use of RAM)

44.1kHz = 181 seconds.

There's a lot of hope for Masterverb, FX, wavetables, oscillators, samplers, loopers, etc.
dawman
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by dawman »

SAL is already making things for SDRAM on the XITE-1.
I swear I can hear the direct access having an effect on the audio that usually sounds colored when using a chorus effect.
I hear no such coloring on his SDRAM Chorus.
To me this is great as I love keeping my synths free of the coloring sound, but like the Chorus effect on Waldorf Oscillators, and SFX stuff.
Even Solaris Chorus adds too much color, but does sound great at 96k processing.
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asktoby
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by asktoby »

1)Motherboard, CPU and RAM
GIGABYTE Z87-HD3 LGA 1150 motherboard, Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM

2)CWA cards installed and eventual other PCI cards.
Two Pulsar II cards.

3)Graphic Card used
Nvidia GTX580

4)Number of Masterverbs loaded in an empty environment before PCI overflow is reached.
9
Eanna
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Eanna »

Eanna wrote: Note that whenever I start Scope, I get:
---------------------------
Sorry!
---------------------------
A capacity limit of your DSP cards has been reached.
The specific cause is:
DSP overload: Big modules do not fit

Followed by:
---------------------------
Capacity limit reached
---------------------------
A capacity limit of your DSP cards has been reached.
The specific cause is:
DSP overload: Big modules do not fit

I dismiss these dialogs, and I can continue to use Scope fine. It's a minor annoyance...
FYI, I've cleaned the contacts with the white eraser, and reseated the cards.
I've also disconnected the SyncPlate from one of the cards.
Took three re-seatings for Scope to find the boards (was complaining about "Please check STDM cables"), some careful poking, coaxing and prodding, and a bit of mandatory sweating, but I got there...

And the result! No more of these dialogs-of-annoyance on startup!! :-)

I've closely inspected the gold contacts on the PCI side and the card edge connectors, and they look OK.. It's testament to the quality of the original design and implementation that these 14/15 year old boards are still working well... Hope I get another 15 outta them.....
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
hubird

Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by hubird »

thumbs up! :)

Since 1999 my cards migrated only 4 or 5 times to a newer or replaced mac, which is not surprising as the Quicsilver mac is the latest mac you can run the cards on, if you use STDM cables.
I'm on my second Quicksilver now, hope it keeps up.
I seldom removed the cards for whatever reason from the slots, actually I can't remember I ever had to do that.
Well, I added an expansion board once :P

Bottomline: the less movements the better it is for the contacts.
But I'm warned, too much of the same kind of problems with the same simple solution here, since the cards are getting aged. I know what to try first if strange problems occur.

My current projects are loaded to the max these days (18 DSP), I had to delete every module or cable not in use (anymore).
I often get that capacity message, and reassigning always does the trick when the load is about the right organisation over the DSP's.
One project is so fully loaded that opening it always gives the capacity message, but 1 or even 2 times reassigning takes care.
igge1
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by igge1 »

Motherboard: ASUS M4A77T, AMD Phenom II X4 840 (QuadCore 3200 MHz), 8 GB Ram

PCI cards: 1x Pulsar 2 + 2x Luna 2 (12 DSPs)

Graphics: AMD/ATI Radeon 6670 HD

MasterVerbs before PCI overflow mesage: 12
chazbloke
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by chazbloke »

1)Motherboard, CPU and RAM
ASUS H87-PLUS / Intel i7 4770K / 16GB CORSAIR (2x8GB)

2)CWA cards installed and eventual other PCI cards.
Pulsar II (6 DSP) using Scope 5.1 on Win7 x64

3)Graphic Card used
2x AMD Radeon HD2400

4)Number of Masterverbs loaded in an empty environment before PCI overflow is reached.
10
On loading the 11th, got DSP overload message
Eanna
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Eanna »

Nice machine, and good result... :-)
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
Immanuel
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Immanuel »

Ah well. Here is a route not to go. I have this 3570K processor on an itx board, so I thought: "Why not buy a motherboard with the q77 chipset". It is likely the last chipset with build in PCI support."

The choices where very sparse. I ended up with the Asus P8Q77M. I installed win 8.1 (first time I try anything post XP on my own computers) and put in my two big cards - second gen 15 DSP and second (third) gen 14 DSP. They are both seen as 14 DSP cards in the latest Scope PCI software. And here is the result ... ... I got a PCI error when I loaded the ... ... third masterverb.
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Immanuel
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Immanuel »

This old guy is better:

MSI Platinum p35 Combo
q9450 CPU
The same two cards as above

I get an error on the 11th masterverb.
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garyb
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by garyb »

the P8Q77M is socket 1155. none of the socket 1155 motherboards work properly.

socket 1150, which is newer, works pretty well....
Immanuel
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Immanuel »

Yes. I did the guinea pig thing because 'q77' gave zero search results, so I hoped the different block diagram compared to i.e. the z77 chipset would hide a little treat for me.
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Immanuel
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Re: Masterverb Test Thread

Post by Immanuel »

Should I laugh or cry? :lol:

Intel Tualatin Celeron 1@1.333 GHz
512MB RAM
Matrox G450
Asus Tusl2-C with everything turned off except the AGP and the four PCI slots I use
2 Pulsar II cards and one Luna (all on IRQ9)
1 PCI card for USB2 and Firewire (IRQ7)

Here is an unusual limit. I have seen no other reports of this. I had the task manager running as I loaded the Masterverbs. This way, I could see the CPU load rise for every new Masterverb. After some instances, the CPU would start to cap during loading. Thus, loaded the next instances would take longer and longer. Eventually, it probably took more than ½ a minute to load Masterverb number ....

17 Masterverbs loaded before the CPU ran out of juice :cry: :lol:

I still had more DSP power left and there was no PCI bandwith error. It would be fun to find a 1.2 GHz P3 to see if this set-up can be pushed even further.
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