Book about Sonic core ?

[jhulk]

the problem with climate change is its alawys happening all you have todo is read history reports on times and weather

in the time of the roman conquest of britania great britain as its called today they talk about it being cold and rainy all the time well we are living this same type climate now

30 years ago when i was a we nippper 12 the weather used to change we had very cold winters that lasted 3-4months we would get 6-8 foot snow drifts and be off school upto 2-3 weeks over the 3 month winter period

spring would be wet but warm and summers would be hot and i would get very brown

as the climate is now we are lucky if we get 2 weeks out of the 3 month summer being hot it seems we got 1-2 days hot weather then 4-5 days rain

and our winters are not very cold if we get snow it lasts max a week this year we had snow in the late spring rather than winter months

they use the climate change as an excuse to charge green levy taxes

our pollution today is a lot less than than during the industrial revolution as i live were it all started the black country now from pictures taken at the time and drawing the sky was filled with chimneys and were filling the sky with black smoke and there used to be smog by late after noon were the smoke used to come down to ground level and you could not see very far in front

my dad said when he was a we lad that birmingham was just a big black cloud from all the steam engines

and my father inlaw who used to work at bescot coal sheds on the steam loco,s said it was very polluted air just look at some of the films of the 20-60,s and you can see

the climate is just ever changing as it ever did they proved that parts of alaska used to have tropical climate

until the last ice age so at some point we are heading for another ice age

its also proven that the land masses move wales is getting larger as it raises but london is sinking as are parts of the midlands as river banks are flooding during the summer months not just the winter months

i doubt in my life time that london will be under water but they say 20-30 years that some parts of london will be under water

but climate change will never happen to stop the pollution as china carries on pumping what ever it like and india

as there industrial revolutions are still happening
uk and usa industrial revolutions happened and died as most of our manufacturing processes have been moved to the asia continents because its cheaper to pay a £1 a day rather than pay a good rate of pay to a usa or uk resident

and the weather climate will just go full circle so at some point the earth will get colder for its seasons and hotter

but at the moment in uk they seem to be just 1 climate all year with the odd day of suprize sunshine like the other day 23 in late september which was hotter than most days this summer

[Eanna]

Aaaah the ole' "climate change is hype" stuff.

Yeah plenty of it is hyped scaremongering.

But what I don't get is:
- Why take the chance?
- Why not move to renewable energies?
- Why do some people argue the scaremongering and taxation line, and also the "wars are waged in oil-rich countries for a reason, and I have a problem with that" line?

And in terms of the world producing less pollution / CO2 that in the past - pretty sure that factually wrong...
Electricity production and industrial activity in Asia produces pollution. The demand for electricity across the world must be ever-increasing.
It's as you said jhulk - the brummies aren't choked up anymore - but that doesn't means somewhere else isn't. E.g. China stopped all industrial activity around Beijing in the weeks leading to the Olympics.

[dawman]

I agree.
Us commoners have been using Solar, and conserving most of our lives due to cost or concern, usually a combination of both.
I am just hoping the elites that look down at us from their private jets would adhere to the lifestyles we have already adopted.

Also if we had Chef's in these world governing bodies that would eat their own cooking.
Seems they don't buy the products they want to sell us.
The Health Care tax............sorry.......I meant law, is just another recent example of food they cook but won't eat. The supposed arch enemies of the right and the left who agree on growing the size of Government, agree on the deployment of other peoples sons and daughters as a reminder or their reach, also agree what a disasturous proposal they have forced on us as they took an entire hour to vote on their exemptions, just before their 5 week vacation, all during another crisis of a Government shutdown.
Just last week Wall Street Executive......sorry, I meant Treasury Secretary Jack Lew called Congress to tell them we are broke in 3 weeks.....unless....etc.etc.
I am not a financial genius, but I think it's safe to assume after creating a debt of 17 trillion under wealthy redistributors stewardship, aren't we already broke....?
Confusing times for sure.

But they really do care about the little people...

[garyb]

it only makes sense to clean up technologies as much as possible. "climate change" is a crock, however.

[Eanna]

In the same way that I cannot scientifically prove your statement that climate change is a crock, you cannot prove the contrary.

So, erroring on the side of caution, and choosing a path to take the power from multinational petroleum conglomerates that have the clout to influence governments to wage wars in faraway lands, opt into and support so-called green energies...

[hubird]

wise argueing in your posts, Eanna

as the news reported:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24292615
some good truth is in it, I'm afraid.
It's better to focus than to deny all and everything

Like the old seller in my local classic looking electronic shop always replies: there's only one earth, when asking him something about 'mass', called 'earth' in Dutch

[garyb]

wrong. it's easy to prove that climate change is a crock.
the climate always changes, the entire history of the earth warming and cooling periods have happened with and without humanity. in the middle ages, the earth was so warm that houses were built without hearths, all cooking was outside, shortly thereafter the mini ice age happened and Scandinavians went a-viking and helped establish some of your dna...

that still doesn't mean it's good to be irresponsible.


and the earth is over populated right? except the whole population of the earth fits in Texas with some 1000 square feet per person. the earth is a pretty large scale by human standards. the sun, even more so.

climate change MAY wipe you out. you can't do anything about it more than the victims of the last few tsunamis could. no amount of handwringing or scapegoating will change that. neither will sacrifices of blood, animals, ideals, luxuries or humans. even that is not an excuse for bad behavior. cleaner technologies and yes, maybe even less technologies are still proper behavior. we don't need to frighten the children to behave like adults. we can use our intelligence and loving hearts even without a crisis. and if you won't get off my lawn, i'll shoot you.

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[jhulk]

Projections are based on assumptions about how much greenhouse gases might be released

that statement says it all based on assumptions

i assume the world is going to set alight over night due to extreme climate change

a assumption is the same as the what if debate

for all the ifs that could of been but never was

im all for climate change but for it to work every body has todo it

if fuel gets any dearer in this country its nearing the £1.50 per litre which is looking at about £7 a gallon 80% of this is taxes being vat green levy tax and other tax

plus in uk we get stung for our energy last year my gas bill for the whole year was £100 as i only use gas for a hobs for cooking on a stove

now this year they decided to charge 33.5 pence per day as a standard charge so in the last six months as we have been eating more salads and cooking on the log burner my gas bill was £20 but i had a standard rate charge of £60 thats £60 im paying more for the same service money for nothing

so i have been trying to save by using less but its actually going to cost me more than last year and i have been using upto 60% less

so im now fitting a halogen hob and switching the gas off as its not a renewable source and is only going to cost more

[Eanna]

Thanks Gary, but I see no scientific proof.
It's true that climate has always changed. That does not imply that our actions cannot change it.

> im all for climate change but for it to work every body has todo it
I'm all for democracy, but for it to work, everybody has to vote...

[Eanna]

Hey lets not turn this into that absolute mess of a thread that was that everlasting topic perpetuated by reactionaries on all camps, that happily was killed off last year when our Moderator had to intervene...

Just don't spend money on that S|C book. It's a sham.

[garyb]

thanks Eanna, but i see no compelling proof that humans are either responsible for the change in climate, or that we can do much, or SHOULD do much about it. i don't see how taxing people will fix anything. the Earth has been MUCH hotter than now in recorded history, for example the middle ages. it's also been cooler than it is now.

this is my honest, and considered opinion. feel free to think me a fool or any other derrogatory description if you or anyone else prefers. until i see evidence that is convincing in my opinion, i am going to be against squeezing the poor and middle class, the only people who are affected by legislation that is pointlessly aimed at forcibly changing habits that were encouraged by the same forces who are blaming folks for being irreesponsible. meanwhile those in charge, and the biggest whistle blowers(such as Al Gore), are using resources more wastefully than ever. everyone on planetz uses less electricity from coal-fired and other "bad" power sources than just Al Gore alone in a year, yet guys like that tell me to cut back for the sake of the earth. i think that's real foolishness. i call that a crock.

actually, from the point of veiw of life on the planet alone, not human interests only, more CO2 and higher temps= more life. animals will thrive in the higher temps, the extra CO2 will spur plant life, which will love the higher temps, which will cause a bloom of O2, which animals like humans will like, which will also bring down temps. ice giants, die!

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[Eanna]

Hi Gary,

I agree that it is very difficult if not impossible to state any scientific fact for which we don't have the statistical or empirical evidence to disprove our theories.

Theories are not a sign of scientific weakness. The dictionary definition: a theory is something that best describes observable phenomena, and is the widely accepted system as the best fit for what can be measured. The best theories extrapolate to future behaviour - like Einstein's famous proof of relativity where the light of a star bends around the sun during a total eclipse, which his theory predicted, and was subsequently observed. When the propositions and suppositions of the theory are validated, based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained, you have something strong and very difficult to displace by argument alone.

But one thing is for sure. The earth shows signs now of warming. And that warming is occurring at what appears like an accelerated rate not seen before - again based on a difficult dataset of historical and geological observations.

It is also true that for two hundred years our industrial efforts have pushed more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than would be if we hadn't gotten involved. And we've deforested the planet in shocking swathes too. So we put out more CO2, and we've taken away what takes away CO2.

And it is also true that those petroleum multinationals exercise undue pressure on the political landscape of the world. Would the Middle East be so important without oil? Would governments sponsor uprisings in oil-rich countries without that oil? Oil is a both strategic bargaining chip, and a reason to go to war.

For me, the notion of oil-as-power was once all about procuring resources. But when oil starts to run dry, when the easy deposits start to be drained, what are we going to do? Fracking? Deep excavations at oceanic depths? And how important will the procurement of resources be then? How much will it cost me, the end user, to pay for this expensive mining? How much power will still-oil-rich countries wield?

As you can see, I generally believe that dependence on a non-renewable localised resource makes the whole world a more unstable place - we are at the mercy of the oil-rich nations, and are both compliant in and subject to the petroleum companies' silent ruthlessness to maintain their power. The axis of oil producing countries say jump, and we say how high...

So what are the options? There are alot! You got your regular green energy renewable resources, wind, wave, and hydro. And you got some ones that high-flying science may produce, such as nuclear fusion and harnessing solar energies outside the planet.

I personally have a huge problem with governments collecting taxes in the name of one reason, only to spend that money for a different reason. If a 'green tax' is money invested into a future of energy independence (we in Ireland import a shocking 87% of our energy - we don't have the natural resource of other countries - and our government have given the keys away to the petroleum companies for deep drilling in our slice of the atlantic past the continental shelf), then yeah, it's investing now in a positive future is deferred gratification - the sort of behaviour you don't expect of democratic governments! So, green tax is levied, and the money spent on servicing national debts and subsiding banks and previously-made bad decisions....

And if a tax is levied unfairly, it's an unfair tax, regardless of the name that the government of the day puts on it. If there wasn't the 'green tax' label available, it'd be another label.....

I don't quite envisage a Mad Max scenario of near-future scrapping over petrol. But any attempt we make to avoid that will only be good for the planet, and good for the financial independence of states.

[garyb]

petroleum has now been shown not to be a "fossil" fuel, that is very little can be said to be the result of the breakdown of "organic" substances. petroleum is something that is produced in the ground under high pressure. the ingredients are hydrogen and carbon and oxygen, there is nothing more common in the universe than these elements that we know of. this is why yhe Nazi war machine was able to run on synthetic oil. old dry wells have often refilled. there is a LOT of petroleum.

does this mean that i think that we need to base all our energy on petroleum? banish the thought. it's a great thing to use cleaner and more efficient methods of energy than that. to blame petroleum and CO2 for all of our problems is narrow minded and short sighted. the people who control the petroleum are NOT the "oil companies". it is the banking industries that control the flow of capital that have all the control over what is made, advertised and sold to the public. all i am saying is don't blame the victims.

should individuals be more responsible for themselves and demand sane solutions to problems? by all means!

one last thing on CO2-even if temps are rising at a rapid rate, it's not CO2. there is more than a small amount of evidence that earth's CO2 levels are extremely low, compared to it's history. there is more than a small amount of evidence that warming trends lead CO2 levels, not the opposite and this makes sense. as temps rise, activity increases and CO2 production by living things increases. there is more CO2 from a single major volcanic eruption than all human production combined. personally, if people are responsible for temps rising, i'd be more likely to believe that concrete and deforestations are bigger culprits. all one has to do is visit a large park to see this dynamic in action.

as i said, "global warming" or now as they call it(since global warming as defined isn't happening) "climate change" as defined by organizations like the united nations is a crock. this does not mean that people should be irresponsible or not take care of their homes, however. the UN has a program known as the Agenda for the 21st Century. depopulation by 80% and the elimination of free movement and the formation of "compacted cities" are stated goals that anyone who wants to wade through the documentation can see for themselves. the Club of Rome has stated in the book "the First Global Revolution" that "the threat of global warming will fit the bill" to achieve these agendas. this is a problem of leadership, not the riff raff.

actually, Ireland is an interesting example of the positive difference that a government that cares just a bit about it's population can accomplish. it wasn't so long ago that the common Irish were the "Niggers of Europe", fordidden from propert ownership and reading and writing by these exact same powerrs. an Irishman should be most cynical about information from the powerful. cynical does not mean neagtive or pessimistic. it indicates a healthy need for questions.

[Eanna]

Yep I know what you mean Gary.

You needn't feel the need to give me a history lesson on Irish oppression! It needn't extend back to when we were colonised subjects of the British Empire - only in the last five years, we have lost our sovereignty to the EU and World Banks - when International (mostly German as it happens) Market Banks who speculated on the Irish banking markets saw their bet fail, our government stepped in, and to avert a cataclysm of banking collapse, instead gave a sovereign guarantee to honour those debts, saddling this country with an incredible debt burden - one that the financial markets recognised as being a doubly-bad debt. The cost of borrowing for the Irish state on the 'open markets' became prohibitive, and so the EU stepped in, and to calm the Euro zone, mandated changes and instigated 'austerity' on our people via a compliant government who were not in a position to dictate otherwise. So, yeah, cynicism is alive and well and living in Ireland, as it always has... the poets and the comics have always kept that alive

Btw, the Nazi war effort totally dried up for want of petroleum. Synthetic oil didn't fuel their war in any meaningful way. More Me-262 jet fighters were shot on the ground than shot Allied planes in the sky, simply cause there wasn't the fuel to get them airbourne...
And if countries such as Ireland could manufacture oil for the domestic market, even produce enough for export, is that not something the country would choose? I know oil can be produced synthetically, just not sure if it's a sensible financial/economic/scientific option.

I have little doubt that the World Bank (the very thought makes me shudder!), and OPEC, and jaded superpowers, and jumped-up oil-rich localities and nations, all contribute to it.

So, I subscribe to green energies, policitical and diplomatic resistance, or whatever takes power from them, and places power in the hands of the locally-elected democratic government. It's the right thing to do, isn't it...

One last thing I would like to say about the whole Climate Change business, is what I saw when I watched the excellently-funny "Team America" satirical movie... There are some folk in the States who push the cause, and my word they don't do themselves favours to endear themselves to the popular majority! So, it appears to become not a stance on green energies, but rather can you stand the very people who push it! Especially, it appears, in America...

[Nestor]

Hey lets not turn this into that absolute mess of a thread that was that everlasting topic perpetuated by reactionaries on all camps, that happily was killed off last year when our Moderator had to intervene...

Just don't spend money on that S|C book. It's a sham.

Yeah…., I wish there was a moderator that could stop what is coming soon, I would be happy to help…, but there isn’t any. The fact that a thread some where in the net has been closed, doesn’t mean its content is not still alive and AS REAL AS REALITY!!!

[Eanna]

Honestly lads, let's not go there.

I'm not posting on this topic anymore.
It was about a book. That's all

[garyb]

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[garyb]

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[Nestor]

[dawman]

You and your capitalist chauvinistic buddies are more concerned with local taxes and their money bags than with civil rights and environmental integrity and what you can do to improve.

Well said.
We get angry at wealthy redistributors taking our cash to change the Earths tempurature, so naturally we are concerned.

One would think you would be angry if you are from Germany for all the Carbon taxes they took from you to build new Coal burning plants. ...

And The Sheep Shall Clack Their Hooves In Approval.