Using Ableton Live 8 (and Live 9) with Scope

[petal]

Are there any Live + Scope user in here, that can explain to me how they do automation of scope synths using live?

From what I can understand the only option is to use the envelope function within clips.
I can make this work partially. I can point the cc to a specific parameter on my scope synth and make it control this parameter, but only with a bad result.
Say I'm controlling the parameter from min to max, thny I should get cc: 1,2,3,4,5.... 126,127. but what I get is 5, 27, 54, 89. In other words horrific stepping.

Am I doing something wrong or is Live and Scope really not a good match at all?

And if I'm right, can we expect to see this solved with live 9? I'm having a hard time finding useful info on the subject.

Cheers,
Thomas

[jhulk]

live has really bad midi timing does not do sysex

and making a ctrlr panel would be the best thing for the scope synths as this would be a controllable vsti panel

you could just make a generic 128 control panel as the scope synths are able to use any midi cc for its controls

we have done one for 14bit control but a 7bit control one is easy todo

ill think about knocking one up you could then have several scope synths on different channels with a ctrlr with banks of 16 controls switchable with separate midi outputs

just write the controls in of the synth set them to that midi cc control and have full automation of scope synth controls

but the timing of live really needs to be sorted out as its terrible compared to the audio clips

i use my atari for midi and just record the clips in live from the synth as i use the atari as master midi clock source which makes the live easier to use

[petal]

Thanks for chiming in.

I'm not sure what a control panel is. Is it a feature in Ableton Live?

[ShogunSpy]

Jhulk a ctrl panel would be awesome I have not looked into it yet hopefully soon when I get the studio finished. FYI http://ctrlr.org/ it's a vst plugin control panel for hardware it also uses juce !

[jhulk]

both sharc and i have done a generic 14bit cc control panel

because its 14bit control you can only get 32 controls as it uses a lsb and msb giving 0-16383

but you can use more as rpn and nrpn also do 14bit cc

but the scope synths only use 7bit midi cc so you can use a lot more controls but on the synths there is not that much control so 16-32 knob panel should be fine

i will make a generic one that can be used with all the synths all you have todo is use the ctrlr midi cc for the control by listening to the control message in the scope synth once set you can then name the control on the control panel

ctrlr is free software but there is no manual its all trial and error you need to understand 8bit hex code as all sysex is done in hex

and you need to learn how to change decimal into hex

you need to be able to read the synth manuals for there implementation then you need a gui program like knob man for nobs and skin man for back grounds

it takes some use to get use to it

it took me 3 days with fafing around sorting out bugs to get the basic panel done it took me a good day to make the animation nobs then adding all the lcd code blocks and making it so that it works

but the end results you get a vsti control panel making scope fully daw controllable with out the xtc mode

so ill make a generic panel with 16-32 controls or i can make specific panels for each scope synth

[petal]

I see!

A generic panel with 16-32 controls would be very useful.
Specific panels for each scope synth would be wet dream come true

[jhulk]

ok ill start work on them

would be easier if i could get the png control knobs and the exact colours to make my life easier and also the fonts

but creamware are no more

gary b would you know what resources were used for each scope synth or if sonic core has these resources on hand so that i can easily produce the panels

as if nobs are already for me to just edit would make my life easier other wise i will have to try and copy it which will take time as i will have to create each nob

and each panel

a generic one would be much quicker as it will be a cc control panel from cc02 upto cc34

modulation wheel which is cc01 will not be in the panel as most controller keyboards have it

[ShogunSpy]

Thanks that would be great. Once I save a generic panel as say Minimax could this be then Shared?

[jhulk]

if you make a panel make it as exe or .dll and you can share them then all every one needs todo is download ctrlr

you can use the exe as a standalone midi controler

or open the ctrlr.dll in you host daw and open the panel there and your daw will see it as a vsti instrument

i do this for my hardware and for scope modular its great being able to record modulation sweeps in your daw and you scope modular responding to those messages

[jhulk]

also you would need to save a preset with the midi cc set to the ctrl panel cc control once done then every preset will be set afterwords

[jksuperstar]

I tried Ctrlr, but couldn't see any of the knobs in the VST available for automation. Did I miss something? MIDI I/O worked fine, so I could use it like a librarian, and load patches for a song. But not automate....

[petal]

If the Ctrlr Panel will not enable automation in Live, then it's not really relevant for me.

But thank you very much for the suggestion!

[jhulk]

you have to make a panel you have to make the animation knobs in knob man

yes you can use ctrlr to automate control of the scope synths with in live

i have not made a panel yet for the scope synths

its seen in ambleton live as a vsti just like any other vsti instrument

no one has made a panel yet for scope synths you just can use ctrlr as with out a panel made for the scopes synths you will not be able to control it

and for automation and updating of controls of the scope synths and the ctrlr panel you need both midi in and out connected to the scopes midi inputs

[jksuperstar]

Thanks jhulk, I'll give that a go. This is going to be f*ing great when combined with the new BC modular stuff!!! Full control panels AND VST integration! No need for XTC!

[petal]

Yes, if it will enable automation from Live, Cubase, Reaper etc. then it really sounds like the perfect solution for Scope integration with your daw.

Until then I found this Max4Live-device that gets you most of the way:

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=54

Essentially it gives you the same kind of solution as the generic ctrlr panel with 8 controls.
It enables automation from the arrangement window and it solves the problem of stepped midi data.

Cheers,
Thomas

[Tau]

You can also use one of these 2 devices I made a while ago (Max4Live)

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... -sender-16

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... c-sender-8

[petal]

Hi Tau,

Yes, actually I did find yout cc-sender-16 after I found the other device. I'll have to try your other device as well though.

Max4Live is a nice tool that enables you to do stuff your daw developer didn't think you needed.
I'm looking forward to use it in combination with Open Scope. Midi stepping be gone! - Open Sound Control here I come

[ShogunSpy]

This means I am going to have to upgrade to live 9 suite now to use max 4 live

[petal]

live has really bad midi timing does not do sysex

but the timing of live really needs to be sorted out as its terrible compared to the audio clips

Unfortunately I now know exactly what you are talking about.

Cubase has much better timing than Live. I would love to work in Live's workflow instead though when using Scope.

I guess we can only hope that this will be solved with Live 9.

[jksuperstar]

Solution: Generate Clock in Scope, and slave Ableton to that. If I lock hardware to Ableton, it'll drift +/-4 BPM. if I lock Ableton to scope, it'll drift +/- 0.03 BPM.

Also: Make use of Silent Way (or stretta's free "vcvi" suite of max for live devices). Output audio directly to Modular.