Is there something wrong with my hardware?

[emotive]

I just obtained a 6DSP card with classic I/O, and installed the scope driver (5.1) and it shows in Windows (7) as working, however there is no signal on the digital (SPDIF) output into my TC Electronic BMC-2.

I don't yet own any software (waiting on a 4.0 key from S|C or the previous owner) but the authorization menu appears in 5.1 asking for an allkeys file, so if I enter this information will my hardware start working in that I will see a digital (or hear an analog) output?

[garyb]

it's not a windows soundcard. it doesn't work like you think.

Scope is a seperate multiprocessor computer. without the program to load the dsps, it can't do anything. basically, Scope devices are hardware. in modern hardware you have dsp chips which makes it work. that goes for fx, digital mixers, and synths. the computer is merely a way of avoiding having lots of seperate boxes all with their own knobs or other control surfaces and jacks. the computer merely houses the card's gui.

the sequencer is inside Scope, not the other way around. this allows you to monitor inputs in realtime and overdub without worrying about latency. the only time latency is involved is when playing vstis inside the sequencer. the sequencer's i/o jacks show up in the Scope routing window and can be freely routed anywhere, outside the computer, inside Scope and/or back into the sequencer, just like with real hardware, mixers, patchbays, fx boxes and tape decks. in fact, that's all a sequencer is anyway. it's a fancy digital multitrack recorder. you can also use hardware in your mix in the box if you like and latency isn't an issue again. this is part of why the card remains usefull. as you and your system grows, the card can still connect everything together, both in and outside of the computer. if you have no idea how to use and connect real audio gear, Scope can be a bit mysterious. it is definitely more for someone, amatuer or pro, who is more serious about sound and likes real equipment, than for someone who just wants to piddle with something that doesn't take any thought.

the 4.0 key won't help you. there is nothing you can do in windows 7 with a Scope card unless you have v5.1.

[emotive]

Well, I've asked S|C for the 4.0 key anyway just in case but if there's a fast turnaround for a 5.1 key I may just move more quickly

My hardware is relatively new so I snapped it up immediately and will now look for another 6 (or 14) DSP card, since I believe that these are the ones that have ASIO in hardware.

My DSP needs aren't great, all I really want to do is run some reverb and a drum machine, and modular synth now and then and use my UAD (I only program MIDI) since then my settings (VST) can be used with my other sound devices but who knows what I will think when I actually get it running.

As to my question, garyb are you saying that it's normal for there to be no signal, be it digital or analog available even when the driver shows as working in Windows?

Thanks again for writing

[hubird]

yes that's 'normal'. If no ins and outs are programmed to be in a Scope project window, then ins and outs don't exist and the DSPs don't do anything.

[emotive]

I guess I don't understand the underlying technologies.

I thought there would always be audio output.

Does it also work the same with X-ite?

[hubird]

yes.
If you start the software belonging to the card, you start loading modules from the scope menus and connect virtual cables for audio and midi. (you can safe this as a project of course).
Say you load a mixer and some In and Out modules (Midi, ASIO, SPDF).
Only after doing that the DSPs can doing something.
So you first must 'build' yourself a studio in the Scope start window before you can do anything.
This building happens in the DSPs, without a built they do nothing
Just like a fine studio which has no gear in the racks...

[Mr Arkadin]

Of course, once you've settled on what I/Os you want and saved it as a project, you can have that as the default load project when you launch Scope, so you will have instant access to sound.

[emotive]

I guess it must be different to other audio devices in that:

no registration = no DSP

and

no DSP = no sound

I really thought I'd at least be able to use it as an audio device, even with a custom driver, or that at least there would be a digital signal to show it is "alive".

I remember RME used to only have custom drivers, but with their USB line they now allow class drivers to be used (which is convenient).

[hubird]

Hm, the card doesn't sit on your motherboard...
Me not knowing about the RME class drivers tho.

The DSP's have to be programmed by loading the studio you want.
Imagine an empty start up synth modular window, how could it manage audio?

Compared to an UAD card: this has just the usual drivers for ins and outs, and the efffects are activated in the sequencer.
It's a closed system.
Scope is a complete studio with top instruments along the walls.
You know already: the sharcs want to know on what instruments over which mixer and from or to what ins and outs you wanne have it today.
That means you have to start Scope Fusion Platform to instruct the DSP's.
You can make your own start up default studio setup, like Mr Arkadin mentioned

[niceboy]

I guess it must be different to other audio devices in that:

no registration = no DSP

and

no DSP = no sound

I really thought I'd at least be able to use it as an audio device, even with a custom driver, or that at least there would be a digital signal to show it is "alive".

I remember RME used to only have custom drivers, but with their USB line they now allow class drivers to be used (which is convenient).

Where is your location , maybe my oscilloscop could help you.
Bear

[emotive]

...you have to start Scope Fusion Platform to instruct the DSP's.
You can make your own start up default studio setup, like Mr Arkadin mentioned

As I say, Windows detects the device and allows me to install drivers from the 5.1 package but no sync light appears on my BMC-2 via the SPDIF port (I have not tested the analog ports or ADAT).

Is there meant to be any signal coming from the device at all regardless of whether or not any software code has been entered?

This is a serious question, trolling is not welcome.

[niceboy]

...you have to start Scope Fusion Platform to instruct the DSP's.
You can make your own start up default studio setup, like Mr Arkadin mentioned

As I say, Windows detects the device and allows me to install drivers from the 5.1 package but no sync light appears on my BMC-2 via the SPDIF port (I have not tested the analog ports or ADAT).

Is there meant to be any signal coming from the device at all regardless of whether or not any software code has been entered?

This is a serious question, trolling is not welcome.

Nobody is trolling.
Gary has told you if you buy the software it will work .
Bear

[dante]

Here is some basics about routing (you need to make a Scope project with the I/O parts shown) before you start any other audio applications that use them.

http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_03/route_it.htm

How to setup for Cubase :
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_01/cubase.htm

How to set up for Samplitude :
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_02/samptude.htm

And Reaper :
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_03/reaper.htm

And Reason :
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_04/propmast.htm

[emotive]

Thanks for the tutorials, but none of this appears to answer my question.

Is there at least meant to be a digital stream available regardless of whether the software is registered or not?

In other words, if I had a wordclock daughter board connected, would other devices be able to lock on to any signal from the "DSP's"?

[dante]

Yes, as long as you have 'routed' those devices in your Scope project.

Scope is like a regular soundcard in that it has I/O but that I/O is not connected to anything until you load a Scope project with that routing (virtual connections represented as graphical 'cables'), or you start with a blank project and route it yourself.

At a minimum, to hear yourself speak through your speakers, you need to drag/drop 'Analog IN' and connected virtual cables to 'Analog Out' (with maybe a mixer channel in between for level / gain control).

Thats in addition to the physical cabling of connecting the mic (via pre-amp) to Analog IN and Speakers to Analog OUT of the card (or XITE jacks).

Loading up Scope without any routing project, is like having a soundblaster without any solder connecting the components.

No routing (RED for MIDI, BLUE for AUDIO) means no signal flow. See below for example routing, where synths are routed via mixer to output:

routing

routing.JPG (64.39 KiB) Viewed 2537 times

[emotive]

Loading up Scope without any routing project, is like having a soundblaster without any solder connecting the components.

Interesting.

So what about XITE, does it work the same way?

[t_tangent]

Thanks for the tutorials, but none of this appears to answer my question.

Is there at least meant to be a digital stream available regardless of whether the software is registered or not?

In other words, if I had a wordclock daughter board connected, would other devices be able to lock on to any signal from the "DSP's"?

Hi emotive,

In a word, No.

The Scope software is integral to the card itself and will not work if you have not put in a valid keyfile for the Scope OS software. I cant see if you have put in a valid keyfile or not yet, so lets start at the beginning.

1. Is this Scope 5.1 OS upgrade you are running, and if so did you receive a valid keyfile from Sonic Core yet.

If the answer is No, then the card will not work until you do. If the answer is Yes, then onto the second question.

2. Did you start Scope 5.1 once the PC has booted up, are you running in in SFP mode or in XTC mode?

If the answer is yes, and in SFP mode, then you should be able to open up the Scope routing window. If in XTC mode then you might need to make some adjustments first to get sound, but I have never used XTC mode since I find SFP mode much more flexible. If answer is No to both above then Scope is not running and the cards I/O will also not work.

Lets start with those 2 questions first and see what where you are at.

As has been mentioned before, I think you may be missing the entire concept of what Scope is, which is basically an entire Studio in virtual form than runs off the DSP chips on the card, so both hardware and software are inextricably linked.

The drivers alone will not control the card, but merely present the Scope cards to the Windows OS, so Scope OS then needs to be installed and started, and you can only do that once you have a valid keyfile.

When that has finally been done, you can then run Scope and best place to start is to open the Routing window. If you can then imagine the Routing Window as a top down view of your studio, where your Hardware Input and Output modules represent the phyical I/O on the card. Then you have software I/O modules that connect from scope to your sequencer, for example ASIO I/O, Wave, and also MIDI in the form of the Sequencer Source and Sequencer Destination modules. In between these modules you can connect Mixers, Synths, Effects, etc.

So once Scope is installed and running, you can create a basic Startup project and then save that so that every time you start Scope it will open with that setup.

BUT.....Scope OS must always be running and with the relevant modules set up, such as MIDI modules if you for example want to have MIDI coming in or out of the card.

It can take a little while to grasp this concept. But if you dont have the valid keyfiles yet and have not activated Scope OS then the cards inputs and outputs will do Nothing.

Hope that helps, and if you havent got the keyfiles yet, then just give it a few more days until you do receive them. Read the manuals if you want, they are still relevent to the way Scope works. I hope this doesnt all sound facetious as I am not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but once you have received the Scope 5.1 keyfiles, or if you have already received them and ctivated Scope 5.1 then fire away and we will try to help

Cheers mate.

[t_tangent]

Sorry, took a long time to write my earlier thread, so dante beat me to it. Hi dante by the way.

But to anwser your last question, yes, Xite-1 works exactly the same way....same concept entirely, but just updated hardware, ie faster DSPs, better A/D D/A converters, etc

Scope for XITE is basically the same OS as well, but just some optimsation for the newer DSPs on the XITE hardware

[dante]

Ive added a graphic to my previous post, showing example routing. No project running = no routing = no signal.

Thats why theres a default project that loads when you open Scope, to at least establish some default signal flows.

[emotive]

Thanks people for the responses, very informative and now I am confident my hardware in fact works so I guess it's now for either the original owner, S|C or myself to purchase a new (5.1) keyfile as I don't think 4 is gonna cut it for me on XP (Cubase user here).

Cheers