More auxiliary channels ?

[niceboy]

not for solo, but in general.
If a player want to add something, he can listen the mix he had choose for himself.
That's what I called solo (as he's playing alone).

Yes but have you tried direct out, if you wanted Aux for other things.

[guppy]

I've not tried because it means adding another mixer and lots of connections, I'm afraid it could be too big for my cards, but I should try.
I can clearly use a stereo bus for stage monitoring with this configuration. So I save 2 aux if I use stage monitoring for backing, or the stereo monitor for a real stage sound. That's a good point

[niceboy]

I've not tried because it means adding another mixer and lots of connections, I'm afraid it could be too big for my cards, but I should try.
I can clearly use a stereo bus for stage monitoring with this configuration. So I save 2 aux if I use stage monitoring for backing, or the stereo monitor for a real stage sound. That's a good point

No its in the same mixer just push options down in the left Corner and direct outs will load,
In the routing window Black box for mixer.
For extra stereo monitor out .
Go to upper left.
Rtn-Page
Chose monitor external not necessarily Aux.
On channel page
Below Aux 6 you find Monitor.
If you want to adress mix down to monitor out,
I am not sure if you really get stereo out there
its probarbly both channels in Left and right,
ment for mono studio recordings,
not live monitoring.
I would therefore use direct out from channel ,
with routed mixdown to that channel,
or anything.
Bear

[garyb]

this is something i never understood.

thew musicians don't need such precise mixes, they just need to play their parts. the audience is the only entity that needs a perfect mix. why spend more time on monitor mixes than the actual performance? the musicians need to get over themselves and out of their fantasy land. jmho, not a law that anyone needs to follow....

[niceboy]

this is something i never understood.

thew musicians don't need such precise mixes, they just need to play their parts. the audience is the only entity that needs a perfect mix. why spend more time on monitor mixes than the actual performance? the musicians need to get over themselves and out of their fantasy land. jmho, not a law that anyone needs to follow....

I dont know.

[niceboy]

this is something i never understood.

thew musicians don't need such precise mixes, they just need to play their parts. the audience is the only entity that needs a perfect mix. why spend more time on monitor mixes than the actual performance? the musicians need to get over themselves and out of their fantasy land. jmho, not a law that anyone needs to follow....

I dom

I dont think thats true.
I think its very often not musicians.
We have different people ,
and generalisations about everything.
This guy is new to Scope.
Welcome to Scope
Ask anything you want.
Gary lives in fantasy land so ask me

[SilverScoper]

Gary lives in fantasy land so ask me

On the contrary, if not for the garyb reality checks many user expecations would be off the planet by now and this site would be nowhere near as useful.

[hubird]

+1

[niceboy]

Gary lives in fantasy land so ask me

On the contrary, if not for the garyb reality checks many user expecations would be off the planet by now and this site would be nowhere near as useful.

You are right but thats between Gary and me.
I say again then to this Young Guy
Welcome to Scope.

[Bud Weiser]

Gary lives in fantasy land so ask me

No, he doesn´t.

Hundereds of recordings and 30 years touring here, small clubs, big halls and large outdoor arenas.

Most monitor mixes are MONO and I never had more than 1 wedge on stage.
In small clubs, we set up so close the control was there from the amps/spkrs and only the singers had monitors.
For big stages and even w/ separate monitor mixing console, monitor mix is mono too,-
Did we want everything pumped out of only one wedge ?
No.
I normally have the bass drum, snare and hi-hat for the count ins and timing, some bass, guitars and a bit of vocals,- just enough to recognize what the singer does (entertaining the crowd p.ex. or for some cues) and in case some spontaneous changes come up for the running order of tunes.

All vocals can share one bus, drums and bass too, the 3rd for all guitars and the 4th for the keys.

I listen to my own keyboard stuff w/ small active speakers (or cans in the studio) in stereo but the others have the keys in mono for the guidance.
You hear enough from the backline and sidefills live to compensate and good musicians deal well w/ indirect and diffused signals.
For the luxurious setups,- use a transformer balanced splitter and run separately to FOH/studio console and a dedicated monitor mixer adding sends and busses.
Can be realized w/ SCOPE when you own enough AD/DA converter channels.
Live and studio is not that different.

Bud

[niceboy]

Gary lives in fantasy land so ask me

No, he doesn´t.

Hundereds of recordings and 30 years touring here, small clubs, big halls and large outdoor arenas.

Most monitor mixes are MONO and I never had more than 1 wedge on stage.
In small clubs, we set up so close the control was there from the amps/spkrs and only the singers had monitors.
For big stages and even w/ separate monitor mixing console, monitor mix is mono too,-
Did we want everything pumped out of only one wedge ?
No.
I normally have the bass drum, snare and hi-hat for the count ins and timing, some bass, guitars and a bit of vocals,- just enough to recognize what the singer does (entertaining the crowd p.ex. or for some cues) and in case some spontaneous changes come up for the running order of tunes.

All vocals can share one bus, drums and bass too, the 3rd for all guitars and the 4th for the keys.

I listen to my own keyboard stuff w/ small active speakers (or cans in the studio) in stereo but the others have the keys in mono for the guidance.
You hear enough from the backline and sidefills live to compensate and good musicians deal well w/ indirect and diffused signals.
For the luxurious setups,- use a transformer balanced splitter and run separately to FOH/studio console and a dedicated monitor mixer adding sends and busses.
Can be realized w/ SCOPE when you own enough AD/DA converter channels.
Live and studio is not that different.

Bud

Its different situations, as well as technics.
Our drummer want the Snare slightly to the left in his ear.
We want it like this in our contracts.
and its so easy to fix.
He spoke for all musicians what they want.
I am a musician so its between him and me.
Bear

[guppy]

this is something i never understood.

thew musicians don't need such precise mixes, they just need to play their parts. the audience is the only entity that needs a perfect mix. why spend more time on monitor mixes than the actual performance? the musicians need to get over themselves and out of their fantasy land. jmho, not a law that anyone needs to follow....

I think you're right, but some of us in the band want to have particular mix in the headphones, so I try, as the berhinger thing has direct input for each headphone.
As we always play in the same room by now, i'd like to have the most extensive usage of my setup. I've seen that we play better when we have the best personal sound in the ear (since the drummer have tested it, he can't play without ), but you're right Gary that there a point I couldn't do anything more.
We don't have time limit to think about

[Bud Weiser]

I think you're right, but some of us in the band want to have particular mix in the headphones, so I try, as the berhinger thing has direct input for each headphone.
As we always play in the same room by now, i'd like to have the most extensive usage of my setup. I've seen that we play better when we have the best personal sound in the ear (since the drummer have tested it, he can't play without ), but you're right Gary that there a point I couldn't do anything more.
We don't have time limit to think about

As long you are the boss and make your own decisions together w/ the/your band, you´ll be always free to design your monitor system like you want and choose from all the options existing out there and depending on the budget.
Also when you run a PA rental, as the owner, you´re free to design that to your liking, then rent.
But the most usual situation of most bands is,- you arrive w/ your backline and see what´s there delivered by the PA company and payed by the local promoter, unless you´re the star and your manager hired the stage, PA and monitor stuff for a tour.
But also then, it´s all a matter of the budget and managers tend to save money.
In most cases and as a musician, you´d be better prepared for to deal w/ what´s offered.

The Behringer network based stuff seems to be a now good and cheap solution, especially for the IEM.
My experience is, tech/stage managers don´t like to see Behringer gear on stage very much and that´s since decades.
It´s banned from tour riders but times changed eventually.
It´s not my personel opinion, it´s a fact because it´s throw away gear,- cheap,- and if it fails buy new in a hurry because it´s not service friendly.

I myself, I don´t like IEM too much,- also in a studio I prefer to work w/ monitor speakers,- nearfields I set up close to my keystands but I also worked w/ cans a lot.

Being a monitor mixing guy isn´t a easy job, they have almost no friends.
That said, I was never very satisfied w/ any monitor mix wherever it was and I learned living w/ that.
When you come to a venue and there are only 4 busses for the monitors coming from FOH,- that is what it is and then you deal w/ it.
If there are 8 or 16 busses available,- well, be in heaven hoping there´s a good guy operating the gear if it works at all ...

Bud

[Bud Weiser]

Our drummer want the Snare slightly to the left in his ear.

He´s deaf on the other,- isn´t it ?

We want it like this in our contracts.

and its so easy to fix.

I know a better fix for this issue.

Bud

[niceboy]

this is something i never understood.

thew musicians don't need such precise mixes, they just need to play their parts. the audience is the only entity that needs a perfect mix. why spend more time on monitor mixes than the actual performance? the musicians need to get over themselves and out of their fantasy land. jmho, not a law that anyone needs to follow....

I think you're right, but some of us in the band want to have particular mix in the headphones, so I try, as the berhinger thing has direct input for each headphone.
As we always play in the same room by now, i'd like to have the most extensive usage of my setup. I've seen that we play better when we have the best personal sound in the ear (since the drummer have tested it, he can't play without ), but you're right Gary that there a point I couldn't do anything more.
We don't have time limit to think about

Its modern times now
It might be so that my friend Gary is changing his opinion in the Future.
The FOH thing is mainly for real stereo on line thing that we do.
Thats very easy to listen to.
This discussion is also about that old wrongdoings will be changed.
Like the roof that was falling down on people in Nashville this summer.
They might have to change the construction of outdoor temporary setups.
The same is with our setup.
Aux is mono so you need two Aux to make Stereo .
So maybe you need to stop using so much heavy Amps first,
and go direct on line.
If you cant afford to buy the Blackstar , the Sibirian tube that they copied inside,
that we also use direct online, is actually better for more agressive solos.
See pic:
We listen to the FOH stereo signal because we send that Stereo signal to the Headphones.

Beta testing
Bear

[garyb]

this is something i never understood.

blablablablabla

I think you're right, but some of us in the band want to have particular mix in the headphones, so I try, as the berhinger thing has direct input for each headphone.
As we always play in the same room by now, i'd like to have the most extensive usage of my setup. I've seen that we play better when we have the best personal sound in the ear (since the drummer have tested it, he can't play without ), but you're right Gary that there a point I couldn't do anything more.
We don't have time limit to think about

there is certainly nothing wrong with spending 4 out of 5 hours setting up a perfect monitor mix, if all parties are happy.

actually, i didn't mean that post to sound so aggressive and harsh. i'm a little jaded. after a certain number of sessions an engineer discovers that the less that the musicians are focused on their monitor mixes, the quicker and more painless the session. the music tends to improve as well. i only have one mix available. the musicians can't afford the session anyway, and it's to their benefit to get over themselves and get recording instead of trying to get seven or eight perfect mixes.

iems are attractive, buy i wouldn't trust my ears to anything but custom molded earpieces, ears are too sensitive and important. alsom you can't hear the outside world with iems, you need mics on the stage to hear the crowd or bandmates yelling that you're in the wrong key. again, for what most bands make and the time they have to setup, it might be impractical. if you do enough preproduction such a setup might be sweet...i'd rather make everyone play at a reasonable level and use two wedges, one in front and one in back. turn the wedges up as much as possible until the vocal mics feedback and then go, killing any member who drowns out the vocals. this always works with my band's 4 singers, a guitar and keyboards in the monitors...but then i'm old and lazy.

[niceboy]

this is something i never understood.

blablablablabla

I think you're right, but some of us in the band want to have particular mix in the headphones, so I try, as the berhinger thing has direct input for each headphone.
As we always play in the same room by now, i'd like to have the most extensive usage of my setup. I've seen that we play better when we have the best personal sound in the ear (since the drummer have tested it, he can't play without ), but you're right Gary that there a point I couldn't do anything more.
We don't have time limit to think about

there is certainly nothing wrong with spending 4 out of 5 hours setting up a perfect monitor mix, if all parties are happy.

actually, i didn't mean that post to sound so aggressive and harsh. i'm a little jaded. after a certain number of sessions an engineer discovers that the less that the musicians are focused on their monitor mixes, the quicker and more painless the session. the music tends to improve as well. i only have one mix available. the musicians can't afford the session anyway, and it's to their benefit to get over themselves and get recording instead of trying to get seven or eight perfect mixes.

iems are attractive, buy i wouldn't trust my ears to anything but custom molded earpieces, ears are too sensitive and important. alsom you can't hear the outside world with iems, you need mics on the stage to hear the crowd or bandmates yelling that you're in the wrong key. again, for what most bands make and the time they have to setup, it might be impractical. if you do enough preproduction such a setup might be sweet...i'd rather make everyone play at a reasonable level and use two wedges, one in front and one in back. turn the wedges up as much as possible until the vocal mics feedback and then go, killing any member who drowns out the vocals. this always works with my band's 4 singers, a guitar and keyboards in the monitors...but then i'm old and lazy.

Thats great

[guppy]

Although we have a nice discussion Niceboy, I think Gary is one of those who know better than anybody what we can do with the Sonic core cards. So you don't have any glory or interest to fight with him. I would like to take this opportunity to thank him (edit: and of course all of you !) for all this help I have since I started to study Scope.
I'm happy that he's on this forum, i'm sure his experience is precious...in fact I really enjoy the skill of this forum, i'm learning a lot everyday

[niceboy]

Although we have a nice discussion Niceboy, I think Gary is one of those who know better than anybody what we can do with the Sonic core cards. So you don't have any glory or interest to fight with him. I would like to take this opportunity to thank him for all his help.
I'm happy that he's on this forum, i'm sure his experience is precious...in fact I really enjoy the skill of this forum, i'm learning a lot everyday

Thats right
And I am truly sorry if I maid anyone misunderstand anything.
Bear

[dawman]

IEMs require a monitor man, and he should be a man of patience as musicians on stage always send a lower signal during the soundcheck, then change their settings all night long and expect the monitor man to chase them around like little Kings and Queens with new demands in between every few songs.
I love IEMs that are wireless and have been molded for the person using them based on an audiogram.
But I tried being the FOH/Monitor/Keyboard man and I will NEVER do that again.
As GaryB said, you set up a few vocal wedges and for a click, you can use a DAW but send that signal out to a Monome with the metronome app, our drummer has this, and it works great.
Most musicians should be able to mix onstage with each other, without having an FOH hold their hand. But sometimes I overlook egos and shortcomings if the performer is a cut above talented. Most musicians ask for changes, and you can pretend you changed something, when you didn't, and still get the Nod that your "adjustment" worked.
This is similar to the Pit Boss Syndrome.
Some high roller loses 5 grand on a bet then wants all of the extra attention as he wants to be heard and taken care of so he yells for his own drinks, asks for new cards, tells the Band to turn down, etc.
So the FOH has a Ghost Fader so when the Pit Boss comes over and tells the band to turn down, the FOH lets the Pit Boss see him lower the massive Ghost fader and although nothing changes the psycholgical suggestion is always sufficient. Now the children get their candy and life goes on as usual.