does a synthmaker's bad demo turn you off?

[jhulk]

no but i can translate to sf2 and akai format as you only want the samples and loops and no preset info

[dawman]

Wow the Oberheim DPX's.
I had a rack of 4 of those, I remember using EMU/Akai and Roland samples. I had the EMU libraries from using the Emulator II/III & IV.
But that was back in the days where you could always upgrade hardware and knew it would work. Now I can't upgrade software unless I can find proof that it works as advertised.
Even some newer Roland hardware is glitchy.

FWIW I still have never demo'd a VST I like, and I don't base anything on demos as most have the chicky-chicky ta-ta tst-tst cheese, but there's something about headphones and nearfields that make Windows and Apple synths sound better than when you demo them through larger powered monitors.
I wish I could explain it, but samples seem to be fine, it's the synths that make me cringe.
It sounds as though the sound eminates from the back of a Cabinet and distant, so when you crank it up for more presence it has a layer of cotton over it or something.
Then I play a hardware synth, which I will always favor through the same Cabinets as it sizzles and is in your face, no need for weak chorus, delay or canyons of reverb.
But I am viewing these from a live POV where there are SVT cabinets and Marshall/Mesa Boggie stacks, and oddly enough real acoustic drums.
Even Scope stuff, while being a step up from Native, still cannot harness the powerful sound of Analog, but some do have a decent quality in the mid range of the Keyboard.
Going to an upper octave and especially a lower range is where the rubber hits the road, and there's no way I could gig with those unless I had a dual tank of chilled Jagermeister strapped to my back with a Scube diver type hose leading to the mouth.
But for indoor use I imagine they would work out just fine. I mean when I listened to Lady GaGas CDs as I really like the techno grooves Big Red gets, it's all done in Logic and on the CD or radio they sound fine.
But I did see her live and it was a treat at the 2010 CES show, but it was pre recorded and they had 4 x Subs with 18's that sounded pretty full.

[Eanna]

For me, it's more that good demos turn me on, rather than bad demos turning me off...

If the author can produce good factory presets and demos, chances are he's a good dev. Think that's what my brain is telling me when I see a good demo.

The Scope world seems to have an aversion to producing demos. And the little handful out there I feel are bad demos, in the sense that they're very limited (not showing the capabilities of the device), and often the music is not very 'modern' or 'cutting edge'.

No demo at all is worse than a bad set of demos.

[Bud Weiser]

Wow the Oberheim DPX's.
I had a rack of 4 of those, I remember using EMU/Akai and Roland samples.

I had three,- now there are 2 left.
No Roland sample support,- it was/is for AKAI,- S-900s only, but EMU II, Ensoniq Mirage and Prophet 2K series.
With the 8x single-out option,- it is a EMU II playback machine because there are the identical SSM filters for all the outputs.
It sounds really killer up to now when using 2 DPX-1s loaded w/ the same disk/patch, detune and run the main mono outputs of each to a Rocktron RX-20 dual-mono Exciter/Imager using the "phase" functionality and ajust to slihtly different phase settings.
In addition, the built in HUSH II single ended NR kills some hiss from bad recorded samples,- if there are any.

The 12Bit converters of the DPX-1 sound very good, the machine is hi build quality and the Exciter/Imager trick brings these samples to life.

There´s a excellent application dealing w/ EMU I / II / III / Emax / DPX-1 / Mirage / Prophet 2K and AKAI S-1000 sample formats and it´s free:
EMXP http://users.skynet.be/emxp/

Have a detailed read,- it´s worth the time investment.
It also reads the OMI CD ROM media which came w/ the "Universe of Sounds" ...
The app works under WinXP on any outdated single processor machine and deals, via a custom made cable, w/ RS422 connecting hardware directly to your outdated computer via USB.
Have a Adaptec SCSI PCI card built in and connect your old SCSI hardrives, MODs, Syquest which you hopefully have saved in stock w/ all your library stuff from the past.
Soundfont 2.1 will be created and it it also reads Soundfont 2.0, 2.1 and 2.4 as also converts to AKAI.
Look for "other downloads" on that site,- there are all he tools for above samplers mentioned.

Now think about we can use all that in SCOPE w/ STS and/or Modular.

I had the EMU libraries from using the Emulator II/III & IV.

I collected everything,- all the floppys I have from S-1xxx series samplers, all the CD-ROMs I made copys and stored to harddrives.
EMXP makes disk images from floppy disks you can store on your computer.
It uses BBC Omniflop floppy driver and is compatible w/ Omnifop application.

Now I can't upgrade software unless I can find proof that it works as advertised.

Confirmed !

I wish I could explain it, but samples seem to be fine, it's the synths that make me cringe.

True,- but also the conversion of program files of a given hardware sampler for any software sample player make you cringe too.
Today, I wonder why I have to use several software sample players to get that right what old hardware did already better in the 90s.
A EMU E64 converts AKAI S-1000 by loading disks or from harddrives much better on the fly than every software sampleplayer does.
Once I converted EMU III stuff for Halion 2 using CDXtract and the velocity layers of programs were all adressed to different MIDI channels,-
Didn´t happen w/ AKAI S1K formats though.

It sounds as though the sound eminates from the back of a Cabinet and distant, so when you crank it up for more presence it has a layer of cotton over it or something.

The sound is a different story, but I know well knowned producers commenting on VST in general, it has some pit (or gap) in the midrange always, so no punch and they have to make these plugins louder in a mix than any hardware.
I think, this is what makes DSP modeled stuff sounding better and even using no additional FX or processing.
When I switch off all the FX in VSTi presets, there´s rarely a synth really sounding punchy or meaty,- mostly it gets thin.
Is all o.k. for the background envolving soundscape or layering stuff but never for the in-your-face dominant lines, phrases or riffs.

Then I play a hardware synth, which I will always favor through the same Cabinets as it sizzles and is in your face, no need for weak chorus, delay or canyons of reverb.

see above ...

Even Scope stuff, while being a step up from Native, still cannot harness the powerful sound of Analog, but some do have a decent quality in the mid range of the Keyboard.

True,- that´s why I´ll use my Minimoog D forever for the low end, probably my Obie Xpander too,- but according to the Obie it all depends on what Solaris tells me once I have one in my hands.

Going to an upper octave and especially a lower range is where the rubber hits the road, and there's no way I could gig with those unless I had a dual tank of chilled Jagermeister strapped to my back with a Scube diver type hose leading to the mouth.

But for indoor use I imagine they would work out just fine.

We´d have to differenciate recording and mastering from realtime live usage though.
With today´s digital tools, there´s always the option to pimp anything up to that standard being acceptable for the common CD buyer and/or radio listener.
Music production process changed a lot,- all the recorded stuff became unimportant more or less, even musicians made mistakes or the recorded material is less quality.
It´s now all about pimping up soundquality of tracks in post-pro, arranging the title by comping and editing tracks beyond recognition compared to what was originally recorded and making all this a radio/TV format compatible product.

That has nothing to do w/ the organization and precision of recording we did in the past when editing features were almost non-existing compared to todays possibilities.

Up today, I try to get the sound of an instrument or voice right before it will be printed to a track,- so that is not so much different from working live where the sound has to be right before I hit a key.

That´s right for me because I´m lazy,- all the extended post-pro steals my lifetime, that is.

But I did see her live and it was a treat at the 2010 CES show, but it was pre recorded and they had 4 x Subs with 18's that sounded pretty full.

Since we see most major live acts working pre-recorded and often lip-syncing too,- I lost interest in visiting concerts.
Before I loved it,- and now I don´t go even I came and come in for free always.
I cannot stand watching musicians reduced in rank of background actors now.

There are exceptions, but these are rare now when successfull.

Bud

[dawman]

Before I went to Nashville I saw Rush with a String Troupe and then Trans Siberian Orchestra with that hot babe Violinist who jumps around everywhere, even flinging her sweat on people in the audience... I think she's fantastic to hear and see, but both groups were real musicians with mad skills and great compositional arrangements.
The SD7 console is a pretty amazing FOH rig too. The lighting guys and pyro technic tricks were also top shelf.
Here in Vegas I grew weary of the BOOV-BOOV-BOOV dancy prancy chick shows where image and lingerie are the norm. Even Shania Twain uses pre recorded tracks as she claims she wants her audience to enjoy a studio quality sound live......??? WTF does that mean,....you can;t sing anymore, or your 600 USD per week players are lame...? I saw her fall on her face at a Superbowl game years ago, and have no interest in seeing her again, the poor players were trying to accent the parts so she could find her way back to her own recording, but blocking everyone else out of your IEMs makes that tough. Guess it's hard to lip sync when guitars and bass/keys are in your ear........what an ego tistical attitude.

Right after her was Gwen Stefani who is a great entertainer with an OK voice, and Sting and her did a duo type of performance where the musicians actually played their instruments, and they smoked the dancy prancer sexy sequencer based lameness.

It's sad actually, as I got tired of automated gigs and instead created a second group of cackling Hens that I booked and made money off of, but I quit playing with the QX-1 in 1990 as I was bored with the perfect tempos.
The 2 groups I formed and booked made me money and allowed me to take lower paying gigs at rooms I liked off of the strip away from the drunk scoundrels yelling Freebird or Merle Haggard at me....

If you get a chance to see Rush or TSO don't hesitate as they are a breath of fresh air. No weak drum machines where the snares sound like a bucket full of Bee Bee's getting kicked, or kicks that sound like a Simmons roto tom detuned.
Once my friends CD is officially released on Frontier records I can share some excerpts here, and let you hear the original power drummer with chops and sound that impresses performers. His syncopations and double Bass, as well as his Buddy Rich quality snare work are astounding and hearing it done in isolation through the Studer Deck was a treat.

[jhulk]

i still have my EII

and its sounds way better than the dpx

i sold my mirage recently as apart from the soundprocess os the filters are lame and the adsr control was just not fast enough

i repair and upgrade the emax1/2 all the time and do do conversion of my EII library but the conversion is not quite right due to the limitations of the

transpose engine of the e-synth chip

where as the EII was all discrete components and logic and just made it sound so good

i still have sd2 with a macIIsi with soundtool2 hard ware card and external a/d conversion box and still use it for the EII/EIII

emxp is great but it only goes up to e3xp support and wont read eos samples which i have to convert to sf2

but what i really like about the EII is being able to sample frequency of notes

c1 has no hi frequency so you record it at its hz frequency this allowed you to do multisampling with the 8 bit 400k sample memory limit

but the problem with converting these samples to other formats is that there frequencies are set and everything is sampled at that frequency

which uses up more memory

if i watch any bands i usually go to camden town as all the new acts come that way and they all play live at these gigs and gigs in the pubs

the bands are exciting as they are there giving it there all

none of this x-factor crap where theres so many plugs correcting the vocal performance

and the big singers sing lip synced which is terrible

and also the bleep blops band dub they are all preset users as you can here them using the latest massive presets and they all sound the same

im a sound designer and i like to make nice weird and wonderful sound scapes

and theres no synths like the hybrid digital analogs for this and hardware modular and the great dsp modular we have which has been about for 12+ years

im also a synth maker and synth edit designer and they have only just come up with modular shell modules that makes it possible to do scope modular like projects 12 years later

i was doing hardcore techno and drum and bass in the late 80,s and 90,s until 95

and in the dance music there nothing new they still use the same format as we did

all dubstep is is slowed down drum and bass and jungle music

obviously our fast pace of the 90,s was to fast for them

my favourite live band of the 90,s was marillion they were great live and that keyboard player could make a synth sing like a lead guitar

[Bud Weiser]

i still have my EII

and its sounds way better than the dpx

We had 2 EMU II on a UK/Scottland tour in 1986 gigging the large halls,- and 2 roadies being busy loading disks during performance ...

That´s why I buyed the DPXes,- smaller and double size 3.5" disks and loading in half the time.
Advantage of 19"/2U formfactor in addition.

Now, I´d want to get rid of both too,- if I´d be able to load that content in SCOPE.

i sold my mirage recently as apart from the soundprocess os the filters are lame and the adsr control was just not fast enough

I sold it after doors of Musikmesse closed where I demonstrated it for Ensoniq when it appeared.
To me, it was a piece of junk from the beginning, but for others it was a revelation,- so I had additional DM 5.200.- in my pocket just before I entered my car to ride home finally.

i still have sd2 with a macIIsi with soundtool2 hard ware card and external a/d conversion box and still use it for the EII/EIII

Same here,- but for ATARI ST, accellerator card included.
I also have the SD Universal package and Turbosynth.

emxp is great but it only goes up to e3xp support and wont read eos samples which i have to convert to sf2

That´s correct for the time being,- but EMXP grew always during the last years.
Can be, they come up w/ EOS sampler support too one day.

Anyway,- so, - which application are you using for EOS to SF2 format conversions ?

my favourite live band of the 90,s was marillion they were great live and that keyboard player could make a synth sing like a lead guitar

Can´t remember what gear that keyboardist used in the 90s,- I only know he´s using a VST setup today, incl. Brainspawn Forte running on a 4U rackmount Windows PC and 4 hardware synths/controllers.
Good band though !

Bud

[jhulk]

i asked e-synthesis hes not going to support it the eos

i convert the eos into emu format exb in

emulatorx2

then i use extreme sample convertor to sf2

on the older emu synths including the EII and emax

they need samples after the loop

also there conversion will not play properly on some synths as they are in frequency and there transposing does not work well on some sampler formats

i have softsynth and turbo synth

yes mines the accelerater 2 card

yes there is something about the 8bit compression sound of the EII and the dbx vca before the adc

i love it

i had to record the outputs to get proper multisamples to sound right in other samplers

and they sound crap in kontakt

that i have aquired several emax1 for customers so that they can use the library

for me though a lot of the samples where from analog and digital synths

and i have those so i have done multivelocity multisamples of each partial of the d50 from many patches

and they sound much better because they are 10-20 samples long

and im making up new content all the time

[Bud Weiser]

i asked e-synthesis hes not going to support it the eos

O.k. thx for info, that´s sad.

i convert the eos into emu format exb in

emulatorx2

then i use extreme sample convertor to sf2

Thx, good tip.
I don´t have the EMUX2, so, is it worth buying used ?
Isn´t it bundled to hardware like a EMU PCI audio card or MIDI interface, or can I use the software w/ anything else now, let´s say a old single core P4 and Win XP SP2 at best ?

I have Extreme Sample Converter,- so EMUX2 would be the missing link.

on the older emu synths including the EII and emax ...

Well, I´ve found out a lot of the old EMU I / II and eMax samples went into EMU sample library CDs for EMU III (X) as also EOS samplers and I collected most of these on a bunch of SCSI drives incl. backups.
So, probably not everything is necessary to convert from the originals.
There are also all the sample sets from EMU Proteus series on EMU III and EOS CDs available.

for me though a lot of the samples where from analog and digital synths

and i have those so i have done multivelocity multisamples of each partial of the d50 from many patches

and they sound much better because they are 10-20 samples long

and im making up new content all the time

That´s true, a lot of stuff is just only samples from other brand keyboards/synths I own myself too.

D50/550 emulation for SCOPE would be welcome,- it´s one of my favourite synths up to now.
I had to refurbish because I couldn´t find any library or softsynth equivalent covering it´s abilities, especially because mine has the Musitronics speed kit, multimode- and memory-expansions built in,- which are only improvements for the hardware itself though.
MIDI multimode works good for sound stacking, but is half-assed because the machine lacks more analog outputs.

I agree, many sample conversions being played back in Kontakt sound somewhat beyond recognition.
That´s why I stopped working on sample conversions for Kontakt which is a worthless steal of lifetime.

Bud

[Eanna]

Hi, for what it's worth, I own the Emu X2 sampler, and I really dig it.
Emu X2 authorisation is by an EMU hardware unit as a dongle of sorts - I have an Emu XMidi 22 hooked up. Also, the X2 authorisation driver does not work on 32-bit Windows - you'll need X3 for 64-bit compatibility.

I think it's an outstanding sampler - sounds great, loads of features (not least the very cool Synth Swype), and is backed up with some classic sample collections from all the hardware units of yore.

[braincell]

I usually try to find all the demos I can on YouTube.

Kensuguro, You don't have enough synthesizers? I have too many.

[kensuguro]

I just like listening to demos. Some of them sound nice, like they're actually good compositions. What's interesting to me is that demos normally don't use branding to force you to think something is good. So the good ones tend to be very well written, since they need to impress you on sound alone. Not true for every demo obviously, but the premise is much more interesting when compared to packaged products.

[Bud Weiser]

... the X2 authorisation driver does not work on 32-bit Windows - you'll need X3 for 64-bit compatibility.

I don´t understand that line, sorry.
You say, even EMU X2 was made to run on Win XP 32Bit, it´s authorisation driver doesn´t work and that´s why I had to buy EMU X3 ?

No need for 64-Bit compatibility here.
I´d install it on a Win XP Pro 32Bit machine w/ an Adaptec SCSI PCI card, connect the old drives and swap the files to the IDE drives, load into EMU X2, then convert to SF2.

Bud

[jhulk]

emux2 neads hardware to run either a midi device a keyboard of emu or the 1820/m/1212/ audio card

yes you can get the EII library it was ported to the emax 2 and are available in EIII format

but they still use the weird frequency settings rather than 44.1 and the transposing works on the emu gear but not on others very well

they are even the same on the digital sound factory sample kits all they have done is ported the instruments

but i own and can get many of the samples from them

i own all the emu sound sets as instruments which is better as doing multisamples from them is better

also you can do good multisamples from ex2

but there are some sets that are not available on the roms

like the morpheus rom set

and the audity2000 rom set

ill do some multi samples opf the morpheus as its a great machine and you can do synth leads from looping snares

but as it is im doing sample sets for hard ware as i like doing things no one else is doing

[Eanna]

X2 uses a Driver-level piece of software to perform authorisation with the EMU hardware as dongle.
This Driver software does not launch on a 64-bit Windows OS platform.

The X3 release does not use the same mechanism for authorisation - I don't know what that it (think it's a licence key / challenge-response job), so X3 does not have a problem running on a 64-bit OS.

In other words, if you wanted to install an EmulatorX sampler on your PC, if that PC is 64-bit Windows, you'll need X3, otherwise, if it's 32-bit, then X2 will work fine so long as you have some piece of Emu hardware as a dongle.

Me, I used to use my XMidi-22, but since I got two Scope cards last year, it's now 'just' a dongle for X2 on some USB Hub, with the Keyboard and Mouse wireless receivers and the Propellerheads dongle, buried somewhere behind the PC..

[jhulk]

i have 2 scope systems that are seperate from my daw which has the 1820m audiocard

because it has an adat i/o i run adat to a scope card and back again

the one scope machine is used for vdat and mixer fx duties

the other is just for modular and synths

i also have a oasys pci system in a win98 machine also used as a sound module

emux2 is easy to use and i make most things in sf2 format

and read that with the emux2

you can get brand new copies of ex2 with the midi x2 dongle for £50-60

on ebay

[Bud Weiser]

X2 uses a Driver-level piece of software to perform authorisation with the EMU hardware as dongle.

In other words, if you wanted to install an EmulatorX sampler on your PC, ... if it's 32-bit, then X2 will work fine so long as you have some piece of Emu hardware as a dongle.

Me, I used to use my XMidi-22 ...

O.k., thx, that´s the info I needed.

Bud

[Bud Weiser]

you can get brand new copies of ex2 with the midi x2 dongle for £50-60 on ebay

I hoped I could because some time ago there were offers for EUR 30.- for that package.
The only one I found today was EUR 395.- !!!!
Insane ...
Seems I´ll have to check ebay for a longer period of time now.

Bud