Vienna Solo Strings

[braincell]

Impressive demo. With all the articulations used, I think this could fool anyone. What do you think?

http://youtu.be/m00W14KqqOo

[kensuguro]

well, it's vienna.. personally though, I'd prefer not to go back to doing articulation switched with keys and depend on some sort of script to do the MIDI interpretation to pick the articulations for me. (or at least for the most part) I thought vienna had something like that

[braincell]

Vienna uses key switching. The Cubase Expression works with that. It's a matter of taste I guess. Switching live is too confusing for me. A big advantage of Cubase Expression is that when you move the note, the expression moves with it.

[garyb]

write a really great symphony and then get real musicians to play it if it really needs to be a real string section.

products like this are only good for pop music, commercials and cheap soundtracks, stuff where only simple articulations are needed.

i like the product, though.

[Nestor]

If you work hard programming, for the average listener there is not much of a difference, I think only musicians can actually realize the difference between a virtual instrument and real one today, if it is well programed. It all depends on the use you will give to your music. If it is for something that will pay you well, with an important budget, of course using a real orchestra would be the best, but it takes a lot of money to do it right, and a lot of time too. The problem with real orchestras is that you need a really very good one to sound as your virtual instruments sound (accuracy, balance and tuning), then recording an orchestra is a difficult art that not everybody can achieve, you need a lot of equipment and highly trained engineers to do it right.

I did a recording for a serious production myself of a small orchestra of 25 musicians together with a choir of 15 men and women and I was really disappointed with my work, it was bad... You need experience, right equipment, an acoustically good sounding place and very good musicians for a good quality take. There are many movies today that use a mixture of instruments, which is a great idea, I mean, they build the arrangement using virtual instruments and then they hire one good violinist that will record several takes on top of it with the main lines, and your arrangement will sound fantastic and nobody will guess, not even us, musicians, how it was made. It all depends on what you are going to use the music for, but for me, this last idea I mention it is always the best option available for me.

[Mr Arkadin]

I think layering is definitely the way to go as you say Nestor. If you just need some strings in your dance track then this sort of thing is fine. If you want to do serious classical stuff then you need to do as garyb says or as Nestor says get some real players in to enhance it.

There's a couple of things that worry me about this:

1. The YouTube comment says it's a six year old demo. For this sort of thing I really would wanted the latest developments - I'm sure they could do a much better job now than six years ago - unless the product has been updated lots in that time.

2. The Vienna Key eLicenser - it doesn't state that you can use a currently owned eLicenser. I have one USB key already for Cubase, it seems that it would be more efficient to have the licences on one key, rather than have another key by the same manufacturer clogging up a USB port.

[kensuguro]

lol, grouchy gary haha.

To Gary's point though, it's partially why I wonder if there's much point in "solo" vstis of this sort. Sections I understand totally, but if you've got this solo part that's mission critical and needs ultimate authenticity, and you're about to shell out a lot of greens for a kick ass vsti.. well, maybe making friends with a performer is the smarter choice than to beat yourself up learning to program one of these things. I mean, I'm a programmer, and keyswitched strings drives me insane. But they're always cool for mockups to hand to the performer I guess. (though I've never done it)

On the other hand, in terms of mockups they do have a place just as a production phase thing. If you need a quick mockup for approval or for budgeting reasons, then ya, you'd want to do it as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Vsti would be a life saver.

But anyway, not to get into the real vs vsti thing too much.. I still think the future with multi articulation instruments is automated MIDI interpretation. At least for legato, detache, small runs and trills.. (bread and butter switches) those should all be automatic like in Synful Orchestra. Synful doesn't have the hollywood sound like vienna, but it's so smart and quick to work with I still can't find a better alternative. Sad it's not evolving much anymore. For effect articulations you still need to do it manually.

[garyb]

sure, string players need work too...

[Bud Weiser]

write a really great symphony and then get real musicians to play it if it really needs to be a real string section.

products like this are only good for pop music, commercials and cheap soundtracks, stuff where only simple articulations are needed.

i like the product, though.

These products are also good for the composing/arranging and doing the layout to have an audible version.
Then doing the notation, eventually hire copyists and the final version is the real instruments.
Not many composers/arrangers today have the skills to sit down at a piano, write a score and conduct a orchestra then,- and the orchestra´s musicians don´t tolerate mistakes and/or allow corrections during recordings.

The Vienna stuff isn´t cheap, so it´s only worth to have if there are the jobs too.

I don´t have it, last but not least because it´s another dongled product in addition.
For me, it´s enough I have to deal w/ a standard eLicencer and the Reason 6 dongle actually.

Bud

[braincell]

You do need experience to record these instruments. I did a recording of a cellist in a pro studio with a young engineer. We used 3 microphones. The close mic came out okay but the far mics were not useable. They sounded muffled.

Samples like VSL etc. do tend to sound generic but I have heard real orchestras sound generic too. Large orchestra players want to blend and not stick out to much. Weird articulations are usually used only in chamber groups. A lot of the sound will rest on reverb and how it is placed in the mix. VSL records dry.

Funny you prefer section string samples kensuguru because I think solo string samples sound more authentic.

The samples are old but they have a new player for them. VSL tends to move slower than some of the other companies. They have consistently high quality though and this set is only $250. I was surprised that my old samples work in their new player and with the new Cubase VST expression.

[Mr Arkadin]

the far mics were not useable. They sounded muffled.

Are you sure you weren't using niceboy's feedback technique?

braincell, do you have one of their products that requires the Vienna Key? If so can you use the Cubase eLicenser or do you need a separate dongle?

[braincell]

I use a new elicenser. All of the VSL software currently being sold works on that also I found found support at VSL to be very good.

[kensuguro]

You do need experience to record these instruments. I did a recording of a cellist in a pro studio with a young engineer. We used 3 microphones. The close mic came out okay but the far mics were not useable. They sounded muffled.

Samples like VSL etc. do tend to sound generic but I have heard real orchestras sound generic too. Large orchestra players want to blend and not stick out to much. Weird articulations are usually used only in chamber groups. A lot of the sound will rest on reverb and how it is placed in the mix. VSL records dry.

Funny you prefer section string samples kensuguru because I think solo string samples sound more authentic.

The samples are old but they have a new player for them. VSL tends to move slower than some of the other companies. They have consistently high quality though and this set is only $250. I was surprised that my old samples work in their new player and with the new Cubase VST expression.

Well, not really "prefer", I just think there's more room for section string samples because they're more expensive to record. So more bang for the buck in terms of mockups.