The monster of atomic war is upon us, again...

[hubird]

BTW did you notice that garyb whom you called for a sidekick dance did not speak up ? Any PM missing here ?

hm...he was so friendly to let Nestor speak for his own for this time, after I gave him a subtle (?) hint you must have missed...

[garyb]

thanks dad!

i'll continue to post whatever with or without your permission.

sure i've jumped into threads to blow hard with my thoughts of the moment. i don't recall jumping into threads just to attack others, though. don't be so mean. nobody in this thread has hurt you. if you are butthurt, you are expressing your rage at the wrong target. so, maybe i can remember some mockery, but i've never drawn the blade. i only parry with the scabbard.

yes, Nestor gets a little worked up and overly dramatic. this is my opinion and i often tell him so. that alone doesn't make him incorreect. nobody is perfect or always correct, of course. i can't really see any reason to provoke that though. this is clear trolling. Nestor hasn't done anything wrong in expressing his opinions about world events. this is how a totalitarian regime quells dissent, by making it socially unacceptable to express dissatifaction.

actually, there are a lot of forces that are moving the world in a bad direction. it is not bad or negative to look at this, go a little crazy over it, worry about it, or talk about it. yes, there are a lot of things that are going well, too. anyone who can't take the "things going wrong thread" can easily make a "things going right" thread. maybe we would all be better for it.

[hubird]

thanks dad!
i'll continue to post whatever with or without your permission.

of course.
It wasn't meant to be paternalizing at all...just wanted to see what Nestor would say...this time.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I think different about Nestor's behavior tho.
If so many people feel upset by an admin's forum behavior he should react more self critical.
He is insulting us and often whole populations, and his repetitive nonsense predictions definitely look like irritating spamming. period.
Even if he doesn't feel it like that, he should be more empathic on forehand, as he's admin.
An admin should never be so strong in the eye of the hurricane, as he has a representative role to carry.

[garyb]

actually, an admin's real role is usually as the god of the site. that ultimately is John Cooper. Nestor has been given the right to eliminate spam. he has not censored those who find him to be vile and dispicable. he has not abused any power that he may or may not have.

really, if his views are just insulting, the real revenge is when he is wrong about the things that worry him, and everything ends up as good. while Nestor may or may not be obsessing over trivialities, the things he is concerned about are for the most part, real. that doesn't mean that bad things are going to happen, but history shows rxamples of tragedy when it's least expected. when Germany first moved on Poland, very few of the common folk had any inkling that a world war was coming that would destroy so many old cities is one obvious example.

again, make a "good things happening" thread. if all you do is complain, bully and defame until you get your way, you are worse than what you don't like about this thread.

in fact i'd correct the title of the thread from "The monster of atomic war is upon us, again..." to "The monster of atomic war has never left us.". that's just reality.

[garyb]

there's no abuse of power. you are confused. if he were the moderator that you think he is, he would have already silenced you permanently. there is also no law that staes that a moderator should not express his opinion.

internet fight.gif (1.29 MiB) Viewed 1987 times

i'm not drowning in lament personally. as to international conspiracies, well, people do things together and in secret all the time. who elected the UN? how undemocratic. see, these are things that you may not like, but it's not wrong to say them. if John doesn't want me to say that whether it's right or wrong, i won't say it because pz is also not a democracy. you are not doing anything but attempting to be the defacto censor. oh, and trolling. you are trolling mostly.

i have agreed and disagreed with Nestor in this thread. that alone makes your summation of me in this thread bogus. you want Nestor to relax when you are just as tightly wound up. no, you are much more tightly wound up. that is why you only speak up to troll.

[valis]

Look I'm going to out myself here to bring this back on topic. I have beyond mod access here because I have some other phpbb forums I hang out on (like John Bowen's), and helped JCooper once or twice in the past. And with the person asking for the message to be discussed rather than the messenger, all I can say is that Ad hominem statements are being made by multiple individuals in this thread. I could just as easily take issue here and start moderating, but that's not happened even with braincell. Trying to prod Nestor into action isn't going unnoticed either btw...

But forget that anyway, we're in a thread that is directly titled to rant about apocalyptic magnitudes in events, and you're surprised at the content you find within? really? So onto my next response:

it depends on what you call fundamental human matters.
Equal rights for gay people (marriage) can be called like that, ask them...

That's fundamental in a different way though, specifically it's also an issue to the 'fundamental'/literal/conservative moral right vs. the 'liberal' left yes. While I'm not gay and don't want to minimize the import of that particular issue, I would perhaps suggest that the gay marriage issue is being USED as a 'hot button' topic much in the same way abortion etc are. Again I am not minimizing the issue by any means, I just think that the fact that we're now currently underway with 80 billion a month in bailouts (QE3) in the US went blindly by during the election. Nor did I hear much mainstream or presidential discussion of the disclosure of our Syrian ambassador being killed with weapons that we supplied, etc.

Also it's worth reading the laws specifically, as the public perception of laws can be quite opposed to the actual intent. Take the GMO labelling act that just (again) failed in California. There was a Monsanto/Duport/etc financed campaign against it spending approx $1million a day to tell outright lies, like 'GMO labelling administrative costs will cripple the industry under regulatory burden'...since that's what happened in Europe right? Yet the typical uninformed person I know down there says that exact talking point when the subject comes up.

remarkable, didn't know it is already that far in the US.
having spoken here about marihuana:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/amer ... iet__.html
(no need to look for an Engklish pendant, it's clear enough ).

I live here btw. So I can specifically speak on this one...and it directly relates to this post. Yes we just passed a 'legalization' of marijuana that either makes it now legal to possess but possibly not legal to drive within hours/days of use with no due process (blood test is admission of guilt, which is a 4th amendment violation) etc. And yet the average person here only knew that it 'legalized marijuana' via the press...

What the law really does is stand counter to already existing 'medical marijuana' laws that allow people under the age of 18 to get prescriptions from a doctor. However you may feel about that law, this one now criminalizes anyone under 21 for having any thc in their bloodstream and driving. It also enables the use of a blood test to be per se evidence of guilt of driving under the influence of mary jane. Forget the fact that it's not actually clear that pot is like alchohol or other narcotics when it comes to a DUI and the fact that there's no clear methodology outlined to indicate how our police are supposed to determine an 'intoxicated' individual during a traffic stop (outside of maybe smelling smoke billowing out of the vehicle). Also we ALREADY HAVE a DUI law on the books in WA state that criminalizes driving under the influence of *any* drug, as per a blood test. So this new law basically rewrites that existing law to state that the blood test is no longer up for review of a jury by trial of your peers, BUT ONLY FOR THC. At least until that's fought for and amended (hopefully).

For the rest:
Despite the small margins in possible policies between the two camps I am happy that Obama won, and for those who think Obama and Romney are represantants of the same elite: they can be happy also, as it doesn't matter who won, unless the social yet slight redirection of income is fundamental to you

And don't forget the occasional redirection of human rights you mentioned above. My only question is what the expense is of a slight redirection in income or human rights when we're busy crashing our economy and devaluing our dollar with glee.

To be quite honest I was expecting the housing crash long before it happened. I left the overpriced real estate market in Cali some years before and initially was surprised at how long it was taking to crash, only in retrospect it's now obvious that between the bundling of bad loans into packages of 'liabilities' that were passed off as top rated investments to privately managed and government managed retirement funds and foreign investors was brilliant. And followed up by 4 years of printing cash to keep their buddies afloat so they can consolidate markets while gathering up a few of the top performers from small & medium sized businesses as they fail.

And each movement that's started so far to inform and create some effort at opposition gets immediately sidelined by them attaching some fringe public figure from some far end of the political spectrum or other to the movement immediately, while the media makes full use of this as a talking point to get everyone convinced that the movement really is from this side of the political spectrum.

[hubird]

re marihuana and driving: those blood tests were initiated here also, voluntary, in a try-out setting.
Now they can check by aspiration test.
I'm against alcohol in the blood while driving, and also against THC while driving.
It's good that there's control on it in traffic, as it's playing with others' lifes.
The good thing is: you won't be thrown in prison anymore just because you're smoking marihuana

[valis]

re marihuana and driving: those blood tests were initiated here also, voluntary, in a try-out setting.
Now they can check by aspiration test.
I'm against alcohol in the blood while driving, and also against THC while driving.
It's good that there's control on it in traffic, as it's playing with others' lifes.
The good thing is: you won't be thrown in prison anymore just because you're smoking marihuana

You're missing the fact that there is no due process in involved, which violates our basic bill of rights and 2 constitutional amendments. That and of course the fact that plenty of uninformed people said exactly what you said "The good thing is: you won't be thrown in prison anymore just because you're smoking marihuana", based simply on the fact that a press released and ad campaign that went around the internet said so. But no problem you don't live here anyway, it's the people that do that will have to sort it out

[Nestor]

Something interesting I would like to farther explain:

The message I wanted to send to Sturdust was simple and clear: “do not try to make full of us”, because coming every now and then, once every two or three months just to discredit something you are not even following, it is stupid. I think that what I said is totally in order and I keep every word of what I said to him. I was sarcastic absolutely in purpose, because he talked like someone coming from above the human race, using degrading and insulting language, so I used this particular language to diminish his own self-importance. No one is in fact too important here or in any other place, we are small and insignificant beings in the universe, so why to be so proud of oneself? The only thing that really matters is love, this is what makes life and ourselves worth living and existing. I may be cool and even politically correct avoiding unpleasant battle of words, like I do with some others strictly without letting this thread becoming a mess, I have more than enough temper for this, but there are certain things that have to be cleared first before saying a final good bye. Now that I have shook off of that free ill will, I continue forward my path and everyone should continue his own too.

In the same way I have turned the page with Hubird, realizing that any relation with this person is a total waste of time in every single comment, I consider my useless communication with you the same, I tried many times to be close and understanding but if you don’t want a sound relationship, it’s fine, be yourself, but get off of my path, don’t expect for me to read your silly writings, no more answers for you either. I really believe in self-respect above all, if you don’t respect yourself, you cannot respect others (I have said it many times and will keep repeating it). To be in touch with people that don’t express honest feelings and thoughts after a year of trying to communicate with them in the first place, while they try to defend themselves as pure “ego” denying what is essential, trolling about without a philosophy, insulting, and the very, very worst of it all, constantly and on purpose mistranslating words out of bad will, it is a lack of respect to myself and my time, no way!

A normal way of communicating must include questions and answers, conversations, sound arguments without the need of discrediting, theories, quotations, ideas, views, perspectiovs from others or from oneself, historic studies or comparisons, comments about books that eventually talk about the topic, debates based on ideas that we defend with arguments of why we think in this particular way, but without insults, and of course the most important of it all, without mistranslating what people say, using what we have of good will in our hearts to really COMMUNICATE EACH OTHER. There are, along the pages of this thread, probably a couple of hundreds of explanations that were made to say “hey, I did not want to say that, I wanted to say this”, then another one to say “no, you did not understand my explanation of the words you did not understood before”, coming from Gary and myself.

Then… time goes by, and you find that the exact same things are happening again and in regard with the exact same words and topics already explained. For instance, I have clearly give explanation, in particular to Hubird and through PM and also several posts about the fact that I am not a conventional moderator, I am simply someone that helps John now and then, very seldom, to keep the forum running, but I do not have any authority as to judge what to do, or to implement a new forum, or ban anyone, etc. Sturdust has used again the same arguments that have been clearly sorted out long, long time ago, in fact, a year ago… How come? What could be the bottom line, the background or the hidden reason behind all this? Why is there such a bad will without a psychological and philosophical explanation of its reason, without coherent thoughts that makes sense? Why this people have been so concerned about a forum they don’t like, that is very, very small, so tiny that must be one of the smallest places on the net where people talk about the possibility of WWIII? Isn’t it bizarre or at least, curious?

One thing is deducible as true, and this is that they don’t believe what I say when they ask me a question and I answer them. If they don’t believe what I say, what would be the meaning or value of this relationship?, absolutely none, worthless.

Who is the obsessed one and with what kind of things in here? Mmmm, mysteries on the night…

[Nestor]

If you want to, please go back and read the forum:

You may like or dislike what I said in this thread, but many of these things expected by me had already happened and continue to happen very much in the direction they were described.

I was expecting a war in the Middle East and the war is there, it happened for real. Remember that when I was talking about it at the beginning of the forum things were pretty much normal, we were only expecting something to happen with Iran, but not with Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, and many other places in the Middle East that are slowly getting in fire, some of them already in plain war and getting ready for more, as some of these countries, for instance, are getting ready new thousands of missiles.

Tensions with Iran match and make sense with what I have stated in this forum, it is becoming plausible as every month there is a bigger implementation towards the war Israel-Iran, how to deny it? There are hundreds of thousands of soldiers around the hot spot and many aircrafts, war ships, missile setups stations, enormous aircraft carriers, and Iran has implemented hundred of thousand of missiles of all sort, and so did Russia. You may dislike me, or the way I talk about things but you cannot deny reality, the war is already there a growing bigger. The Israel-Iran potential war is really a hot spot that is going farther every day, all assertions are becoming real facts, this war is prepared already and it will start at any moment. Forget about anyone speaking about it, and simply acknowledge the facts.

I said that riots would increase and spread all around the planet, and this is exactly what is happening, and there will be many more spots of riots around the world, enormous riots never seen in history. Forget about anyone speaking about it, and simply acknowledge, again, the facts.

I said two days ago that due to a pole shift in the earth we will have more and more earthquakes, well, we have just had, a few hours ago, a big earthquake taking down some parts of Guatemala that spread through Mexico and some other countries, and I had to wake up of a sudden this morning because an earthquake woke me up here in Chile, without the need of a clock. Please, forget about anyone speaking about it, and simply acknowledge, the facts.

I have said also that there is an upcoming revolution in Mexico. This is also going to happen and you will be able to see that by yourselves, you will see this words becoming facts, too.

You will see and experience everything said in this thread as a truth beyond any concept or speculation, facts are well beyond believe.

[dante]

I'm against alcohol in the blood while driving, and also against THC while driving.

Given that one of these substances are legal and the other not, I think they are the wrong way around. Smokers I have known back in the day drove slower / more cautiously than drinkers. I'm not saying its safe to drive under the influence of THC, just that alcohol is worse. And not just for driving, but for violent or antisocial behaviour in general.

[hubird]

alcohol is worse

[Eanna]

As for the whole "The world is screwed, and every day it gets worse"... I feel that there is no benefit to focussing on these things! I will not lose any sleep over it. What point is there to it? If I worry, fret, feel pain, post on planetz, then what point is there to that?

And for those who attack a messenger because of a disagreement on a viewpoint, it is better to ignore, surely.

Everyone has an opinion on stuff. We each have a narrative on what we see in the world around us. We take our sources of information for this narrative from many places. Subconsciously, we filter out what we believe is important to us. But there is no one single truth.

Don't forget Socrates has said:
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.

So - ha! Ye're all wrong!

[Nestor]

great

[Nestor]

Well, of course there is no point in been a masochist or to concentrate in what is disastrous for the sake of it. This is definitely not what I am doing in my life, coming and writing in this thread it is a tiny portion of my life. That would be silly and pointless. I think the exercise we are looking for here is UNDERSTANDING life, SHARING humanity, building CONSCIOUSNESS, because when you understand, when you digest, everything is lesser important, less painful I mean, when you share, you find one of the highest meanings in life, and being more and more conscious of yourself and your surrounding means expanding yourself as a person.

If the purpose of this thread would be to cry over what is going to happen, it would not make a practical sense at all, but if you prepare for it and can handle it in a much better way, you bet it was worth the effort.

Becoming more and more consciousness of reality leaving fantasy behind it is also something of great value. A right man will prefer truth over happiness; the cynic man prefers happiness over truth. Most mature people on earth are those who can encompass as many important elements in their spirits as possible.

There are many great teachings in all we are facing now, this is not an empty quest, otherwise life itself would be useless which would be a lie and an insult to the forces that have given us the opportunity to exist. To assert such a thing would be against the very nature of life which is giving and loving.

There is something we have to learn about our earth for instance, and this is that you cannot exploit the earth without expecting for it not to react against you! The Gaia principle is a real one, the earth is alive, and our monstrous exploitation of all its resources will bring a mass chain reaction.

Is it too simple a lesson to be learned? “We must live our lives in harmony with the earth”. Yes, it is very simple, a child could understand it, right? But did we understand it? Yes, and this “yes” is even worse than saying “no”, because we have been destroying the earth knowing that this would bring an ecological ecosystem disaster, but we carried out with our endless exploitation nevertheless. We have burned the earth and tortured its people through our wrong multinational materialistic system, and now we are paying the consequences. We have definitely, a lot to learn here!

[garyb]

stardust, you are obviously basing your responses upon what you THINK that i say and believe, rather than on anything i have said or believed.

feel free to carry on with your trolling of the unintelligent and uninformed humananity like myself. feel free to continue to know that the Master Race that you belong to knows better.

btw- nation=tribe. what nation controls the USA? how is the nationalism working in your country? if nationalism is bad, how are nations providing the controls that you speak of? if the USA has hegemony, it's from kicking your nation's ass when it attempted hegemony. speaking of hegemony, how else was your country's wealth established? it all sounds like hypocracy to me, this hatred of hegemony. as to current US military action, i remind you that beyond all the political posturing, the USA is not fulfilling it's population's desires through military action. Bill Clinton assigned final control over American troops to the UN and NATO during Kosovo and this has never been reversed. the current operations are joint UN/NATO ones and NATO is 25 or 26 countries of good old Europe. the game is called "good cop, bad cop".

[valis]

I'm against alcohol in the blood while driving, and also against THC while driving.

Given that one of these substances are legal and the other not, I think they are the wrong way around. Smokers I have known back in the day drove slower / more cautiously than drinkers. I'm not saying its safe to drive under the influence of THC, just that alcohol is worse. And not just for driving, but for violent or antisocial behaviour in general.

The real issue here though is that there's not a direct comparison between the two. You can take even 'seasoned' drinkers and monitor their blood alcohol levels and you'll find a 'hockey stick' effect where you slam face first into impairment at a certain point. Between ages 25-45 that 'hockey stick' moves a bit to the right, meaning that you can imbibe a bit more before hitting the 'wall' of impairment in testing going to 2x worse, 5x worse 10x worse etc. For people younger and older it is more to the left, where smaller more moderate amounts create more impairment. This is not only ratified in the courts but there are THOUSANDS of studies that reveal this.

In Marijuana there are only a handful of studies that relate to *impairment*, and the vast majority of them focus on CBD's and THC-9, try searching the internet for CBA's related to cannibanoids and see how many results you get. The information on THC is a bit skewed to begin with, but there are at least a moderate amount of studies out there. The question is what do the studies on IMPAIRMENT suggest? Well first of all there is no consistent blood level that constitutes 'impairment', and the blood levels of THC-9 are not as important for overall impairment past the 30-50 minute mark as the CBD's and CBA's which are the primary NARCOTIC aspect of the plant. THC-9 is psychoactive and does affect you cerrtainly, but tell me you've smoked a joint and been unable to drive 3-5 hours later. Basically we're going to be 'experimenting' with our arrests and courts now to determine procedures to identify how exactly one knows if someone is inebriated on pot (is this really as easy as alchohol?) and how consistent blood levels actually are. Meanwhile if you REALLY dig in, some of the companies involved are not only behind the sale of the blood monitoring equipment but also invested in other companies that facilitate the prison system and businesses with the collection of biometric data. So this isn't as simple as just 'legalizing pot', especially as there were already other laws on the books that address almost every point covered by the new law.

You and I aren't the ones potentially affected by this law though, we've ALREADY had a law in place in WA state (USA) that enables people with certain chronic medical conditions to obtain medical MJ through a specified structure of grow ops & dispensaries. This new law stands in conflict with that current structure for one, meaning that medical users are unsure what's going to happen to their supply chain. Many of the proponents of this law claim that the 'grow ops' are just mad that they're going to lose their "stranglehold on bootleg style profits of prohibition" as obviously state-sponsored dispensaries are worse than...state sponsored dispensaries? It doesn't make sense on the surface, but if you look towards alchohol DISTRIBUTION in this case you'll see most states have laws that specifically allocate only a given # of licenses for a given area (usually based on census figures). Here in WA state they ALSO just recently overturned liquor stores and sold the 'rights' to sell alchohol to grocery stores. Digging into that issue you'll find that large investment funds that back mainstream grocers like Safeway and Albertsons etc lobbied heavily for this law, and 'won' the 'right' to distribute taking this away from businesses that have been around for 30-40 years. I suppose one might say that the liquor stores were 'taking advantage of the profits of' bla bla, but how are grocery stores morally superior to small businesses that they replace? So looking at the Colorado & WA state laws there are some...rather interesting backers to say the least. I could also draw potential comparisons to the tobacco industry and what's occurred there, both in terms of corporate ownership of distribution, manufacture and growing (and its subsequent move offshore from the US to avoid regulation of contaminants), and what may potentially happen to MJ if profiteering takes completely over...all under the guise of being 'morally superior' to the current grow op system. Of course that may not happen, but it happens to every other industry in the US that shows profits large enough...

[Eanna]

I dunno Nestor.

I reckon we are slaves to how evolution shaped us. Nothing more.
Life isn't about loving and giving - altruism exists to give us an evolutionary advantage.
We are endowed with large brains, a bit like a peacock with its large feathers, we have been genetically pruned in this manner. This big brain allows us exploit our environment, to give us individually and collectively an evolutionary advantage.

Our misbehaviour, meddling and abusing nature, is a very unfortunate yet thoroughly understandable effect of our ability to behave in that way. If a cat found a way to drill for oil, mine iron, smelt steel, design the internal combustion engine to sit on top of a chassis with wheels, then he would do so. We did find that, because we could. And if a cat could organise and self promote to create a movement that instantiated a system of government over other cats, oppress those cats, force them to work for their benefit, then he would do so. We did do this, because we could.

What's hard to do is to go against your humanity, your evolutionary endowment.

[garyb]

ok, i'll go with the ot....

until someone is obviously impaired, they need to be left alone. how about giving a roadside test to random sober drivers to be sure that they are up to snuff?

again, anyone who cannot maintain the basic control over their vehicle needs to be off the road. blood levels of a substance do not necessarily reflect the level of control one has. if one drives much worse after drinking, but still drives as well as the typical sober driver, he has done no wrong. driving itself is a risky behavior bordering on insanity. 4 air filled rubber balloons supporting a 4,000 pound vehicle moving at 60 miles per hour that hasn't been serviced in a year or more is not exactly safe. even serviced properly it isn't safe. this idea of safety is a lie. we can only limit disaster.

[garyb]

Charles Darwin was a fraud and an inbred pervert. it was Thomas Henry Huxley who left Aldous and his criminal brother Julian(of British intelligence and Eugenics fame) behind, who is responsible for the current ideas of "evolution"(along with partners in crime like nephew Sir Francis Galton). let's get out the calipers and begin to measure craniums to prove the existence of the master race everyone!

yes, things tend to change over time and yes, there does seem to be some kind of mechanism that allows organisms to adapt to their surroundings. there is no proof of evolution as Darwin described, however. none. in scientific circles this is well-known. evolution is for the masses. yes, my family includes one of the top level chemists of the 20th century and one of the most influential philosophers of the 20th century, but i ain't gonna prove it...