The monster of atomic war is upon us, again...

[Nestor]

Wow! It feels really hot today...

[dawman]

Whenever i gets Hot Al Gore will behind a Podium sonewhere trying to emulate a Black Baptist preacher, he was a coach named Dr. Cleophus Robinson......

Mans Souls Cannot Lee-ive, on SHrimps, Clams, and Poke Chops....

[Nestor]

Whichever of them comes in power will proceed with the same upper instructions dictated by the real authorities that are never seen or heard in public. Nevertheless, between these two prospects of evils that serve the globalists, there are virtually no differences to expect, except for the color of the skin if that matters to you, what really does not to me.

One thing is true: this presidential election that today we are witnessing will be one of the most important in history, not because of their efficiency, no…, but because of all the changes that are going to happen from this moment and on, in the following years. The plans that are already on the world domination table in clear paper, will go on, fast...

When the moment of being at the end of the year 2016 comes to be, I think we will be surprised watching back and seen the enormous distance we went through in only four more years of our life, I guess it will be like a condensed four years century…

If the problems ahead were only the economic crisis and some bad politicians, that would be bad yes, but it would still be something we could handle and at worst, with some changes in our ways of live we could still go on and manage having a nice life together and in peace. The serious problems we are facing up right now are the endless COVETOUSNESS and intense desire the powerful ones have for domination through war, something that will happen independently of which could be the president of any of our countries, because the presidents of the most powerful countries of the world are nothing but servants at the service of those who really have the power; AND… the restlessness of our planet which is deeply ill already going through a health crisis that is going to explode in our hands. Earthquakes will intensify, it is a scientific fact that authorities do not want to talk about and spread, but our world is going to change enormously as it did many times already in the past, our earth is suffering an electromagnetic transformation that will bring earthquakes of gigantic proportions and a pole shift is already happening.

[hubird]

You may think what you want, but I think it's all rethoric.
World domination soon...don't make me laugh
You're good in making great songs in short time and idem mixes, and good in judging other's mixes, and you could write a great thriller with an apocalypse on the background, but realistic politics...no.

And it definitely makes a difference for a lot of Americans who wins.
Think of health care, a more decent tax policy, equal rights for minorities, some regulation of banking, immigrants, more attention for the Palestinian case, Cuba, and less war.
Yet I know it won't be that decisive, as both chambers are dependent on each other.
I don't think the democrats will coöperate so deliberately with the republicans in case they win, after the shameless 4 year obstruction during Obama's term.

In the meantime I'm sitting ready to watch all night (local time) the show on dutch tv, with a delay of 30 seconds for translation aims. hmmm
Beer, chips, and a nice ready made spliff on the table from the next door coffee shop, what can go wrong?
Oh, the elections, as it's too close to call, I almost forgot, hehe

[garyb]

think an insolvent government because they ILLEGALLY borrow money from the private Federal Reserve Bank.

Obama has been obstructing the Republican's desire for war? what a laugh! Obama has INCREASED military spending and taxes. he has quietly instituted a Brownshirt organization(something Dutch Royals approved about Hitler). income taxes don't go to the Government. they pay for interest on money printed by the Fed and the Fed makes money out of thin air. they have bankrupted this country and free healthcare won't reduce taxes in any way. on the contrary, if the government provides it, free will be at double the cost. this is a 100% lock.

go ahead and get high. just don't think that your pipe dreams are reality.
the Eloi always think the Morlocks are there to help, except when the sun goes down...

hubird, the Netherlands, though immigrants exist, are made by and for the Dutch, for the most part. the USA is a collection of various tribes who are all in competition. even worse, the tribes get broken down and then it's every man for himself. there is NO benign elder wise council who care about their people. we as common people need to be vigilant to avoid out and out economic and cultural slavery. those reports you listen to are peices of crap.

old movies explaining it:
Meet John Doe
Mr Smith Goes to Washington
it's a Wonderful Life

oh, and get off my lawn.

get off my lawn.jpg (92.81 KiB) Viewed 1946 times

[hubird]

hate, hate, hate...

[quote="garyb"]go ahead and get high. just don't think that your pipe dreams are reality.
/quote]
tell that the reggae bands you're recording...

[garyb]

kiss my ass!

i have nothing against Marijuana use, just pie in the sky hippyism that avoids reality.

Marijuana can be a wonderful medicine and tool for meditation. it can be good for depression and excess mental, spritual and physical pressure and pain, but used only as an escape it just leads to stupidity. i'll tell this to anyone, including "those reggae bands". reggae musicians usually aren't stupid enough to believe that the government will come and fix everything that troubles either. at least personally, i know that i need work to make a good life.

it's not hate to deal with reality and to discard and destroy fantasy. that is love. without being grounded in reality, there's no way to fix problems.

[hubird]

then don't be so frustrated to damn me for catching a fire.
Am I condemned to your 'reality'?

[garyb]

see, that's the problem hubird. you react to stuff that i don't say, and never have a conversation about what i do say.

i never suggested that you shouldn't smoke. i told you that your view of the situation is flawed and gave a hint as to why that's the case.

personally, i like you just fine. i think you're a good guy!

i just disagree with your conclusions and your attitude about those things that i mentioned.

it's great for the government to help those less fortunate! if the government's sole purpose was to help, we would have no arguments. Obamacare isn't about helping, however. bankrupting the government isn't a good idea either. neither candidate will reduce war or do anything to directly improve people's daily lives. Romney will talk about fiscal responsibility, but he will continue to spend trillions on international projects to consolidate world power. Obama will talk about ending conflicts and taking care of people in need, but he will continue to do what he has already done, spend trillions on international projects to consolidate world power.

just because everyone has "healthcare coverage" doesn't mean that people are cared for, nor does it mean that the destitute are less destitute.

oh, and it's not MY reality. we are not the ultimate arbiters of reality. reality exists within and without us. reality is everyone's. the reality that is only mine or only yours is completely a false one.

[garyb]

further, voting is only usefull if one is presented with a choice that one actually wants. there were six candidates on the ballot. why do we only have a choice between two of them? why must we be red or blue?

"These two really are birds of a feather, but also total foils to each other. The idea of them being exactly the same and yet polar opposites is going to be a huge factor in upcoming episodes."
red oni blue oni TV tropes and idioms an oni is a type of demon...

[hubird]

it is your reality to be totally nihilistic.
Don't make me part of it...

[garyb]

from wiki:
Nihilism ( /ˈnaɪ.ɨlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ɨlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological or metaphysical/ontological forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that reality does not actually exist.


i'm not a nihist by ANY means. in truth, i keep expressing the IMPORTANCE of life and it's meaning. again, it's not MY reality that i care about. i care about the actual reality, not just the happy or sad thoughts in my own head.

you are the nihlist. you have no real sense of humor. did you even read about red and blue onis?

[hubird]

yes, I've read it.
Can't help, it's your country.
I prefer a multi party democracy tho, fight for it
Yet the result of the elections will make a difference.

[garyb]

you read it?

then you see why there are red and blue states here. red oni and blue oni are the same, they are both onis. the difference is one is cool-tempered and one is hot-tempered.

yes, i would prefer a multiparty system here, as well. we do not have that in actuality, only in name. again, there were SIX candidates on the ballot, but only two are viable or participated in debates or got ANY coverage. it's like a communist country where there are many candidates, but only a party member can win.

so you know that there will be a huge difference between candidates?
well, there will be a difference in rhetoric.

[hubird]

so you know that there will be a huge difference between candidates?
well, there will be a difference in rhetoric.

I didn't say huge, the possibilities are small because the dependency of both houses on each other, as said before
Yet I named a few aspects before.
You don't have to agree or laugh at me for that.

[garyb]

ok, i can deal witrh that. why have a multiparty government if it becomes a two party system that ends up doing pretty much the same thing in the long run? that's really just a one party system.

i understand that you have your preferences over who administrates the country.

actually, the president doesn't have the right to institute ANY health care plan, it's not in his job description, but somehow it's the main talking point. i do kinda laugh about that. he does have the right to lobby congress to enact legislation that he would want, but that has nothing to do with what will or won't happen. the president is not a king.

[hubird]

Thank you.

Two reasons to quote myself, one for our convenience: the referred aspects of the difference, and two: I meant that if the Republicans win the Democrats won't support them so much after the obstruction by the republicans of the Obama administration during last 4 years.
I think you understood that wrong, due to my cripple English.

Let's not discuss these aspects, it won't help us any further.
At least no one can say these all together won't make any difference.

quote:
And it definitely makes a difference for a lot of Americans who wins.
Think of health care, a more decent tax policy, equal rights for minorities, some regulation of banking, immigrants, abortion and euthanesia rights, more attention for the Palestinian case, rights for Cuba emigrants, and less war.
Yet I know it won't be that decisive, as both chambers are dependent on each other.
I don't think the democrats will coöperate so deliberately with the republicans in case they win, after the shameless 4 year obstruction during Obama's term.

[garyb]

there are members of the coucil of foreign relations on both sides of the aisle.

democrats and republicans are not the polar opposites thatr you might think them to be. there is much more difference between communists and conservatives and greens in your country than between democrats and republicans. indeed, there is more difference between Lutherans, Dutch Reformed and Penticostals than democrats and republicans. there is more difference between a red and a purple tulip...

[Nestor]

I am watching the news right now, and Obama has won the elections as most expected in mainstream news. Poor people!

Well, it seems that there is still a small posibility for Romney becoming the next president. Poor people!

[valis]

Thank you.

Two reasons to quote myself, one for our convenience: the referred aspects of the difference, and two: I meant that if the Republicans win the Democrats won't support them so much after the obstruction by the republicans of the Obama administration during last 4 years.
I think you understood that wrong, due to my cripple English.

Your cripped english is excusable, so no worries there. I am however going to discuss this further against your wishes to clarify what GaryB is saying. One thing you'll notice after being 10-15 years 'an adult' in the US is that the majority of the 'critical' issues during an election cycle are actually insoluble problems. One side will refer for example to 'Universal Health Care', the other to 'Obama Health Care', care to guess which is which? I'm sure the Republicans refer to it as 'Obama Health Care' to insure the support of their party...right? And 'universal' might be possible if a true effort were made consistently over time, but since I've been an adult I watched the Clinton administration and now the Obama admin. both espouse similar ideas about this, and meanwhile you can track lobbying and investment by BOTH parties from the insurance companies (that have no interest in the current game ending), pharmaceuticals and petrochemical companies.

As an example our two largest chemical companies--Dow & Dupont--create much of the basic building blocks for the pharma industry as well as the Intellectual Property for GMO's from Monsanto and etc...things that are seemingly designed to cause health PROBLEMS, or at least 'solve' another bizarre problem we have: lack of food (?!). We've mentioned in other threads here that HUGE portions of our commercial food production is either thrown away (shipping from halfway across the world where labor is cheap makes 75%-85% spoilage rates ACCEPTABLE from a financial perspective as the remaining portion of fruit/vegetables sold are still cheaper than native solutions AND regulations overseas are so much less of a hassle. What's interesting about this is you'll hear "but how will we solve world hunger without GMO's and industrialized farming?!" while we casually accept 75%+ spoilage rates on some products...all without blinking.

Another example: abortion. Just say the word and people instantly polarize, snap to a preconceived notion, belief system and/or emotional stance. Everytime I've seen that debate THAT I CAN REMEMBER come up we've been actually doing something else. In the last few years it was an 'issue' during each round of bailouts (handing out 13trillion on both sides of the isle while everyone is arguing over abortion worked well enough for them), it was an issue before the "Arab Spring" aka "lets use the munitions we couldn't use in Iraq on Libya so we can use taxpayer's money to build new ones and keep this economy rollin'...." I have yet to see abortion come anywhere near a rational or solvable discussion, but boy do they get a lot done aside from that usually (if you pay attention).

In fact (I forget who introduced this to PlanetZ but...) the poster who introduced the Hegelian Dialectic to the discussion is closer to what GaryB is trying to get at. The problem is that there's not a 'one conspiracy' in the sense that there's a single plan or tactic that is always used or works. However if you are familiar with more than a few vague conspiracy sites that quote Hegel a few times, you find out that it's only ONE of many verbal and intellectual (Logical actually) strategies to 'manipulate a discussion or sequence of events to reach your logical conclusion' aka win. And MANY of these strategies are based on the same tactics that also work on War, in Love and in even with 'Illusionists' who entertain...diversion and manipulation of perception. To think that we've gone through somewhere between 120 Trillion and 173 Trillion US dollars on US & Foreign 'bailouts' since 2008 and there isn't some sort of cross-aisle collusion (Dem+Rep) between the people that own & run the majority of those companies is just...ignorant? immature? Irresponsible?

No offense intended of course, this is simply my view as I see it and I typically understand quite well where GaryB is coming from. To be quite honest, when I was a young adult and entering my 20's I thought many of these things were silly or just paranoid as well. Musings of a mind that feels failure must be the fault of the outside world... Here I am 20 years down the road and I realize the vast majority of us fail & learn from those failures, so it's not some small sect of people that have dreadlocks or 'hippy clothes' that suffer from the injustice and unfairness of <the universe> <the world> <etc>. I also think most people cling to their illusions for longer than they're necessary in many if not most cases, which makes us that much easier to direct and funnel in a given direction 'en masse'. Or maybe that's a byproduct of reading Asimov at age 7-9 (all of his foundation/empire/earth series) and being exposed to his musings on Psychohistory.