Studio Monitor Technical Comparison - MSP5 & KRK Rockit 6

[fraz]

Hi,

I've got an old pair of Yamaha MSP5's - theres nothing wrong with them other other than the green light on one of the speakers doesn't work, nothing that a good service wouldn't sort out. I've been looking at some of the Rockit speakers to compare to the MSP5's

The MSP5 has a power output of 67 watts (27 watts for the tweeter) and 40 watts for the bass - with a flat freqency response from 40 Hz (apparently)

The KRK Rockit 6 has a power output of 68 watts with 18 watts for the high frequency and 50 watts for the low frequency.

Are these power outputs per speaker? or for the pair of both combined?

The two models for the sake of argument have the same output but differ in where the power is delivered within the frequency range-

For me in my little home project studio with Scope etc..... what difference is it really going to make which speaker/monitor is used???

Should I consider getting a subwoofer? -

The room with the speakers in is approx 9ft x 12ft with a recess or two for good measure....

[Fluxpod]

Without going into specs.The Yamaha are way better.If you need a sub..dunno.But to Balance a sub into a more or less Unrtreated room is not easy.I would avoid it and Save up for a Pair of monitors that will last 10 or 20 years with no Upgrade needed.

[garyb]

both are ok.

a sub will give you more bottom and allow the system to be played back louder, but if the sub abd speakers are not balanced, the sub will make problems.

before spending more money on speakers, do something for the room acoustics. bad room acoustics make the best speakers useless. at any rate, you can listen to your mixes on many different systems in many different environments. if you are honest with yourself, you should be able to identify your tendencies that don't sound good and adjust, whether the problem is the speaker or the room that is lying to you.

[fraz]

Thanks. Room acoutsics is something that is on the list of things to do. The idea would be to improve them - Not make them perfect!

The speakers are sat on some foam product designed for that purpose.

To keep things simple-ish what is the best way to improve the room acoustics - I've heard and seen products advertised - Are you talking about application to the walls to absorb the sound waves?

[fraz]

I'll start another thread for acoustic advice

[garyb]

no only absorb, but also to diffuse.

this is always a good place for info(their products are good too):
http://www.acoustics101.com/

i have this product(and all of these products are something to check out):
http://www.acousticsciences.com/products/mix-station/

[fraz]

Thanks for the links Gary... .....there is alot of information on those pages.....gee....

From what I've read (which isn't all of it) and what I've understood....which is probably less..... ......

At this stage I'm not trying to build a sound isolation studio but actually just improve the sound of the room which is one thing I have understood from the Auralex pages. Incidentally the foam pads under my speakers are Auralex and by having that measure in place they have decoupled or isolated the speakers from the surface that they would have been on directly....

if some other improvements were implemented on the walls like acoustic panels that are not permanent this would improve things further right?

fabric covered?
fibre glass?

If this is a smart move how much of the wall space would ideally be covered? - The wall space "as is" is currently plaster with emulsion

Just reading through a studio catalog and there is an Auralex range of "roominator kits"

Any useful pointers please to improve the sound of the room "as is" as easily as possible that would be alot better than just leaving it as it is. Thanks

[fraz]

For sake of argument room is 10 m2 - Not massive but not too tiny either..... EDIT: oh and not square or even rectangle - there are two recesses on one side of the room which are approx 1 m2 each

[garyb]

you need a combination of bass traps, for bass absorbtion and diffusers to scatter the sound evenly throughout the room. a diffuser works like the frosting on a lightbulb. without that frosting the light would come off the bulb in beams which would make it hard to read. the frosting scatters the light in all directions, so that objects don't create hard shadows. it's the same with sound.

yes, temporary solutions are fine. the ASC product i pointed to does all the needed functions, bass traps and diffusers, but with a bit of reading, you can do it yourself. Aurelex also has both absorbers and diffusers that can be temporary.

[fraz]

Hi,

I'll be getting a room kit comprising bass traps and foam panels. For the placement of the panels is it best to leave a gap in between each one? - or to have them tight up against each other?

[jksuperstar]

It depends on how much acoustic treatment you get...to cover the whole room, or just enough to cover the initial reflection zones. The begin with you can start with small pieces that would be placed on the ceiling and side walls to address initial reflections. Next is balancing the room, spectrally, to reduce resonances along each axis of the room, and reduce overall bass content.

Near-field monitors won't need to be huge, as they are not driving a lot of air, only just getting the information to your ears as directly as possible. The proximity to the speakers means you won't need much of a subwoofer, but it can help if you do a lot of deep/low mixing of modern music such as dance. Classically speaking, music was largely mixed with acoustic/electric instruments, which did not create this low-end, and the music is not very focused at this end. As a result, you may read various opinions on the need for sub-bass recreation, filtering it out entirely, or what proper cut-offs should be.

I'd suggest listening to a small number of records, and getting intimately familiar with them, on as many speakers as possible, so you then *know * your own speakers.

I personally like Brian Eno and David Byrne (My Life in the Bush of Ghosts)...it has great transients and a broad spectral range. Because it's use of short loops and slight delays, it can reveal issues with early reflections and room reverberation issues, as well as room resonances. Another album (though more obscure) is Flim & the BB's (Tricycle). The group was selected and the music written and recorded specifically to show the dynamic range of CD's, and so very little compression is used, natural sounding reverbs play throughout, and there are many passages that are quiet, loud, or change dramatically between the two. From this, you can check for the dynamic range of a room, as well as the reverb tail that should be present, and how particular speaker systems react through their cross-over networks, especially if a sub-woofer is added.

[garyb]

what about diffusion?

that's the most important part after bass traps.

[jksuperstar]

You're right, my reference to axial resonances has a strong time component...and best dealt with by diffusion.

[fraz]

The product I'm looking at is the Auralex Roominator Project 2

comprising

24 - 600mm X 600mm x 50mm thick Studio foam wedge panels
8 - LENRD Bass traps

EDIT: I've found some diffusers..... ......so I could get a few of these-no problem

Is it best to put these behind speakers? on ceiling? in front of speakers? all of these?

As an idea if there were 2 of these diffusers on the wall behind speakers each diffuser is 600mm x 600mm x 150mm thick so they would jutt out so maybe is it best to keep these higher up? -2 diffusers on wall opposite speakers and four on the celing - Would this be the right amount to use? - or less maybe? - 8 in total? - then the foam wedge panels around these and bass traps.....

Its getting there!

[garyb]

that'd probably work. it's hard to say exactly without knowing what is in the room already, what the walls are made from, etc. it's a job for an expert to do an optimal job. doing what you are talking about should help a lot. i'd put the four diffusers on the back wall, if you can, and two on the ceiling, or even two on the back wall and then two directly to the side of you. which diffusers are you considering?

you can make diffuser panels from various lengths of hardwood blocks pretty easily...

the problem with the foam, is that it absorbs mids and highs, but it also reduces your stereo response. the diffusers will improve the rooms stereo response since you need reflections to be able to hear the field properly. the diffusers keep the walls from just "beaming" directly back at you and they eliminate shadows from objects in the room.

you out to double check the price of the ASC mix station. it's a complete soluton(diffusion and bass traps). it only takes a few screws to attach to the wall, making it movable to the next room you use and limiting the amount of damage to clean up after(the foam needs to be glued). the price might not be that different than the foam once the diffusers are factored in.

[fraz]

The Auralex T-Fusor 600mm x 600mm 150mm thick - I would put four of these up on the back wall but they are 150mm thick so when they get to the level of the desk it means the desk has to be further out. the wall in question is 2150mm high from the skirting board (above floor) to where the ceiling joins so having 2x2 of these diffusers would come down 1200mm from the ceiling and the base of these diffusers would be at desk height or lower slightly

Auralex also do a mini diffuser which is 304mm x 304mm 123mm deep so these could go in other parts maybe. There is another side wall other than the wall opposite the speakers but lets deal with things one at a time..... .....

The wall is 2380mm wide approx. The surface is hard - plaster with emulsion-great to stick something on...

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Here is a pic taken from the door.

Here is the opposite wall where the speakers will hit.

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This is the window

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Opposite window





Inside the room will be an office desk 1400mm wide 800mm deep plus 2 x keyboard stands and two PC's. The desk has 2 x 4U Racks on top where the speakers stand on Auralex foam product. Speaker stands could be bought if you think this is not good enough....

[fraz]

Gary I realise its a specialist job to have a professional studio.....acoustics etc....very scientific......I think from my point of view its something that I'd rather not have to look into but I know deep down that I need to make an effort to make the room sound as good as possible using shop bought products that will make a real difference in comparison to just leaving it as it is now......

Then my little home studio is a reality that has been well thought out with time taken to achieve a good base level for the home that is....with 2 PC's with Scope and Xite and software to match in other areas -- It will be a real nice room to be in to do some music and get some reasonable results which is the main objective....

Opposite window - I put this here as I could only load 3 attachments....

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[fraz]

OK Gary and others if you're interested..... ......done some calculations for the back wall - if it is best to have 4 diffusers then they can go central-ish - then to either side of the four diffusers can go 3 foam panels which are the same dimensions apart from depth....

So on that wall in the picture above will be 4 X diffusers and 6 foam panels - Is it best to put 4 diffusers instead of 2??? -

Then 2 diffusers can go on ceiling - very close to the diffusers on the wall??? any gap?

This covers most aspects of the room apart from two awkard recesses 1 sq metre each to the right of the doorway as you look in... but these could be useful to store some manuals etc... extra diffusion....??? -

[garyb]

if you put one on the ceiling, put it over your head.

one bertween the speakers, two behind you close to eachother and one on each side of you is probably about as good as you can do. put the foam on the outside of the diffusers behind you and on the side behind you. that's what i suggest, anyway...

for mixing, it's best if the speakers are away from the wall, but of course, practicality is importantr, too.

[fraz]

The speakers are currently on the desk on top of the foam which is on top of the 4U Racks - How far away from the wall should the speakers be?-I'll try to get as much distance as is possible.

--- If four of these diffusers were put behind the speakers on the wall would that be too much? thats what you initially recommended before I put the pics online.... looking at the picture thru door...

2 can go above my head easily.....

Also you mentioned the diffusing being the most imortant aspect so on the wall opposite the speakers I was planning to put 2 more diffusers going from 12 O ' clock to 6 and maybe one or two more on the ceiling from there so there would be quite a number of these scattered about -Is this a good thing? or is minimal/subtle better -

If more diffusers are put up there will be less foam wedge panels and if less differs are used more foam panels will end up on walls