Cubae 5 crashes on loading VST's Scope 5.1 in XTC

[mindscan]

Hi,

Just passed over to Scope 5.1 and when I read the installation notes I thought the integration of VSt's into my sequenser would be a breeze but it isn't

I followed the mail Sonic sent me. They gave me a keyfile for Scope, so that's the first I did, installation of the soft. Scope card found, program installed and Asio driver seen in Cubase, so far so good. Than I followed the instructions to install the plugins that came with scope into Cubase. Didn't seem difficult, typical install in the Cubase VStplugins map. But than the misery started. First time it scanned the VSt's as it does with third party stuff as well. It would than creat a Scope PCI mape under my VST instruments. Problem is any time it found a plugin the Scope registery windows opened. The guys at Scope said in their mail to ignore this and close it ?! So I did like 100 times. Next time I open Cubase it stops (crashes) at the first plugin scan. I have no idea why..


What I found strange:

Any time it asked for a registration of a plugin I had no idea which key to use. the one I got was for the Scope,
and even tried it, no good. Aslo strangen there is a fisrt field that says serial number of the hardware, but that is just empty? Like my card is not seen? But it does work once Cubase starts, Scope Asio driver is working and I have my ins and outs. I manually remove the Scope PCI folder so at least I can still start Cubase. But it annoys me buying an upgrade version that in the end wouldnt give me more functionality than the previous version. The integration of VSt's would me a nice asset. But as it is now just not working for me. If anyone had the same experience please let me know..

Thx,

Greetings

[mindscan]

Oh yes,

And I tried under

Windows 7 64 bit , cubase 5 32 bit
windows XP SP 3 32 bit, Cubase 5 32 bit

Both crash and gave the same registery windows on every plugin found. So I have the feeling it has got something to do with that question for registering. Cubase on both systems runs without problems if I remoce the Scope folder from the VSTplugin folder.
In windows 7 , I could actually see the VST folder and tried opening like Bluesynth. Cubase crashed immediately on a serious error. Cubase log file has a lot of mombojombo, latin to me, but I do read many times "acces violation"..

[garyb]

i'm not the guy for xtc mode, but maybe i can help. tell me step-by-step how you use Scope in xtc mode. it does normally work, though i can't imagine why it's a necessity.

also, please go to start\programs\accessories\system tools\system information\hardware resources\conflicts/sharing and tell me what, if anything, is sharing an irq with the Scope card.

i was going to answer your email to support anyway, so....

[mindscan]

Hi Garyb,

To be honnest, I don't have much time to dig this one out and I could manage to route the VST's within Scope so I can use them in Cubase via the Scope platform. Can't load more than 1 synth anyway since I only have a 3 DSP board. So at this point not a crucial error for me.Of course it would make life easier if I could just open them directly within Cubase. It would behave as any other VST so I guess arpeggio sounds will sync with the midi clock. Not sure how to do that within the Scope setup..

I don't think so this is IRQ related, since All the rest is just running fine without any crashes. Anyway The card is on IRQ 19 and shared with Sata controller, Intel 6 series/C200 chipset, JMicron JMB36X controller (internal SATA raid which I don't use).

The Cubase crash behavious is on scope plugin scan. It hangs on the first one it sees. best case I can start Cubase but the SCOPE PCI folder which should be under the VST instruments is not there. What I tried next is a plugin scan within Cubase. It sees the DLL files (they are in the VSTplugin directory) and on every one it opens the Scope tregistration windows where I have to fill in a serielanumber or do "import key" , but as far as I know I simply didn't get this key from Sonic. The only key tey gave me is the one I had to use during the Scope software installation, but I don't think so this is the same one, or is it? What I also find strange is that that registry windows doesn't see the hardware serial numer of the card? I can asure you the card is properly installed, Scope software is running and Asio Sciope driver is nicely loaded in Cubase, so the card is surely seen in Cubase , no doubt about that. I believe Cubase crashes because it wants to open a DLL which isn't correctly registered , or which isn't connected to the Scope hardware, and probably it executes a halt there..

Anyway, it is not a major concern, since I can route things in Scope. But of course it is a nice feature of the XTC mode, so a bit bad I can't use it right now..
I included some screenshots, the testscope is just a test one which can already let things run in Cubase like I want to, not a definite yet..

Regards

[garyb]

are you using xtc mode with Scope open? if so, that won't work. Scope must be completely closed when xtc mode is enabled.

[the19thbear]

My thoughts exactly!
You have to go to settings in scope and tick the "enable xtc mode".Close cubase, close scope and restart cubase.
When you use xtc mode you cannot acces the scope routing window.
The project xtcproject.pro is used "in the background". You can modify that prPsoject to contain whatever mixers/signal path you need.

[garyb]

and now, an expert.

this man knows xtc mode as well as anyone.

[the19thbear]

happy new year gary

[garyb]

likewise.

[mindscan]

Hello Garyb and bear,

I admit, I'm completely guilty here The scope has the XTC marked and is INDEED open. I always read in the manual to close the scope program when running in XTC mode, but I could never really figure out how can I route things than the way I want it so Cubase can see the right routing when Scope is closed? The way I saw it I was using XTC mode and my routing worked in a project with a name like "test". Cubase always opened with a Scope message that VSt's can't be used in XTC mode when Scope is open which I alwyas ignored all these years because I always used Scope just for my audio busses.

So what you guys are telling me, makes me sound that my Scope is now running in a kinda of normal Scope way (where VST's can't be used within a sequenser) as long as the Scope program is open BUT that I can really use it in XTC when closed and still can do my prefered routing but I have to use the specific XTCproject file ? This is important because the routing like in my example is more or less the way I will work. If this is the case I will check it out this evening and let you know if everything worked well

Already thx, this info was usefull and already clears up to me that XTC can only work when Scope is closed but with respect to personal routig schemes via the specific xtc project file..

Cheers,

[mindscan]

Ok, getting there but not 100% yet, so need some extra help.

What I did is adjust the XTCproject file, didn't change the name but did my own routing scheme like in example. I enabled XTC mode AND I closed Scope.
Started Cubase and yes the plugins are nicely there and effects and synths starting. No more asks for a key and no more crashes. GREAT !

BUT, I can't seem to get my audiobusses connected. I have no analogue source in nor out. I can add busses in Cubase , and the output bus also seems to be ok. But no sound is coming in from my extrnal desk or Z-link and no sound is coming out from the Luna card, so something is still not ok.
The thing is when I do start scope and open the XTC project file I immediately hear my soundcard kicking in, in other words it does all work properly when Scope is open. When closed it's simply not (I also hear the sound card disconnecting, a synth that was playing via Z-link closes off). What I would expect is that Cubase opens this correct project file somewhere in the background so the soundcard kicks in again, but it simply doesn't. Asio Scope is properly selected in Cubase and I do see in and out busses from Scope. For me it feels like it didn't accept the routing scheme I made within the XTCproject file or doesn't open it the way I made it. If this could be sorted out everything would be 100% for me.

Here are the screenshots,

Grz,

[the19thbear]

For testing purposes, it's good to leave scope open and load the xtcproject.pro setup.
Then open cubase (yes this is NON xtc mode:). Test your routing etc to see if you have any sound I cubase and see that everything behaves like it should.

When everything works - routing wise - save the xtcproject file and close scope and cubase.
Open up cubase again this time in xtc mode and select the right asio driver (setimes you have to select it again, because the daw wants to connect to the old one, but need to be told that is a new one... This is sometimes only though)

[mindscan]

Thats what I all tried before. The last scheme I sent does work when scope is open, so i save this as an xtcproject with xtc enabled. I close scope and open Cubase and this time no sound. I do see asio sources getting in to Cubase channels. That is to say, if i use a softsynth and i play on a keyboard with sope midi in i do see channel activity on the softsynth channel, but no sound going to the soundcard analogue out.

So for me asio and midi seem to be ok but hardware sound in and out are not.
I will try some other settings later this week. For me it seems the analogue ins and outs don't get enabled when i wanna work in xtc mode, cubase does see ins and outs from the card but somehow they are not getting routed properly, and since i have to keep scope closed in this mode i also have no visual control on the scope part.

anyway, in normal mode i can work for the moment but without the vst integration part. It would be nice if i could get it to work, but not the end of the world if i cant..

Happy end year

[next to nothing]

doesnt the project need a "directplaymixercontainer" module?

[the19thbear]

Only for realtime synth playing. It should work without the module as well.. Strange indeed.
I would download reaper and see if it works in xtc mode. That way you can see if it's a cubase problem.

[mindscan]

Ok guys,

I will do some furher testing next monday, maybe i'm overseeing something. I was wondering why sequenser vst integration would only be possible in xtc mode. I mean, the scope vst plugin folder is in the Cubase vst folder anyway, so why wouldnt it work in normal scope mode. Is this a limitation within the scope software? If I use this routing setup but in normal scope mode everything works just fine (exept vst), but I do find 1 thing strange, I was using this routing in the past always with xtc ON, BUT also with scope open and with a project name like test. When I then opened cubase it just gave me a warning that I cant use scope vsts in xtc. I was always working with 4.5 and never installed the scope vsts so never really bothered about that message coz my routing worked. To me it seems now that when xtc is marked BUT scope is open I was actually always working in normal scope mode without knowing it, on the other hand cubase always opened with this xtc warning, strange..

Anyway, thx for the help so far. I will try some other things in the xtcproject like make it empty, at least I won't expect to see midi information via a vst in cubase then, so I'm 100% sure the xtcproject is actually being run in the background, since scope has to be closed in xtc mode I actually dont see a way to be sure it is really running or is there a way to see this?...

Cheers

[the19thbear]

The only way to see where the problem lies is to try another daw, like reaper

[mindscan]

First my best wishes to you all for 2012

Second: since I don't give up that easily I found an hour time today to do some extra troubleshooting.

Here are my "personal" conclusions on XTC mode. I decided to start a basic Scope project, just do the midi and connect an Asio or soundcard in directly to the soundcard out. No mixer loaded. Saved as XTCproject and XTC enabled. Closed Scope started Cubase and sound is nicely heared at the soundcard output (from Asio, VSTi and from a hardware synth going into soundcard in).

Then I did the same, but I placed a small mixer between the signals , that micromixer. Just enough to let go in the soundcard in + and Asio source , mix out to the soundcard out. Saved again same way and closed project. Opened Cubase, I see a fast XTC windows coming in , micromixer getting loaded, but my problem remains, no in to the micromixer coming through and no out to the soundcard, so I hear no sound.
Then closed Cubase, opened same project again , disabled XTC mode, left Scope open and started Cubase. Everything works just fine now, I have sound.

My conclusion : Or I have a configuration problem or Cubase simply doesn't see the Scope routing once there is a mixer involved.
Solution that would work for me but unfortunately can't do. Perform direct connections in Scope without any mixer, but like I said impossible. That would mean for example connect directly an Asio and a luna analogue source to the Luna out. Problem is, the Soundcard out only accepts 1 connection at its in at the same time. So the only way I see to solve this is working with a mixer and connect the mix out to the soundcard out, this is how I normally work without XTC..


So I see not other choice than stop wasting my time trying to get XTC the way it should supose to work for me and stay with the normal Scope routing. At least that way everything works the way it should. Unfortunately I have to accept I can't have Scope VST integration in Cubase, but I can live with that since I have other gear for that...

Greetings,

[the19thbear]

If the micro mixer is called micromixer.dev make a copy of it and rename it to micromixer.mdl
Open scope and your xtcproject.pro and delete the micromixer in the routing window. Then insert the new micromixer.mdl in the project instead (you can drag and drop it directly from a normal windows window - that way you make sure that you. An see that you are puttin in the mdl file and not the dev file again.
Save and quit.
It should work now:)

[mindscan]

That's it !!!

Thx bear ! Your last tip actually works. I used my old template changed the 1632.dev file to a 1632.mdl file, enabled xtc put back the VST folder to the Cubase folder and everything seems to work now like in a normal Scope mode AND I have access to the synths and effects directly in Cubase, very nice

Only a few more things that make me wonder a bit.
During opening Cubase Scope comes with a message that the STM1632 preset file contains 18.99% presets that are not compatible. Since i have no idea what's in the STM1632.pre file sits, I have no idea if this message is of any concern? And it seems my routing works and the few plugins i already tried don't make my Cubase crash. I also saw, first time it didn't see the scope plugin folder, so withing Cubase it did a new scan. I got a few times the error that scope was at PCI limit or that project was too big for Scope, but I ignored it and I presume these messages were there because it opened every scanned plugin for a brief moment and I only have a 3 DSP card, so maybe it sometimes reached the load.
I closed Cubase, opened again, and no new scan was necessary, everything was nicely there. Only thing I find a bit a shame now is that I don't have any control on the scope DSP load since Scope is closed. I can of course test till I get a PCI limit warning, but would be more handy to have a visual control..


Anyway I will do some further testing now on stability, and apart from that 19.99% incompatible message I think I shouldn't worry too much anymore. If my scope board won't handle XTC that good (read some bad thing from XTC mode here and there), than no problem I will return to normal mode. At least you helped me out now, and I know all routing can be properly done in XTC mode as well


Many thanks, and I think since all my problems are solved now, this thread can be closed.

Keep up the good support Bear and Garyb, you guys rock and you are the fastest responding and effective support team in the world

Cheers,