Mid/Side Recording

[wayne]

Getting in to some M/S this week in the front room of the old house we live in. Any experience here?

I'm playing with/recording a singer who plays a '38 National, has some wicked songs. This is him 30-odd years ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTvzzgk_jEY

Awesome lyrics, always

I'll use a Rode Classic for the figure 8, and either a Rode NT2 or NT55 for the mid - leaning towards an omni mid capsule for extended bass

I'm playing either double bass or Fender and kick & snare, aided by my little contraption.

Bang.JPG (42.01 KiB) Viewed 1863 times

Should be a lot of fun - jarrah floors, old piano in the corner, open fire, some pre-war and 60's instruments, great protest songs from an old bloke who's firing on all cylinders

[astroman]

while thinking the double bass will match the 38's sound just better, I'd really appreciate a clip with the Fender and the double foot action...
(great JB sound in the vid)

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

yeah, use the omni.

[dawman]

Love that stuff.
The Bass sound in the vid above was really ballsy too.
Ripper Bass by any chance..?

Smoke 'em Chief....

[wayne]

That was his band in '82, ten years after it was an Australian number 1 single. Jeez, the drummer can't go two bars without launching a new epic fill! If I was on bass I would have preferred some more meat & spuds

Hey Tom - I'll post something The setup is solid for rock&roll. Buggered if I can stick-shuffle on it though!

[garyb]

yeah, that's pretty slick...

[wayne]

Here's a vid Tom - with complimentary crazy artifacts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJTx2Wpthcw

My 15W Warwick amp is compressing out too...

[garyb]

well, that's one guy less to pay. if the singer has a tambourine, you've just about the whole band covered.

i'd expect nothing less from the hero from down under.....

[wayne]

If the guitar/singer is a good strummer, a bit of sizzle on that and you have your pseudo hats.

When a drummer I know saw it, he said " You C&#$, that works ! I told him I wasn't doing him out of a gig, I was value adding to a duo. Still, he was a cat who would drink the whole rider before I'd set up my rig

It's a cool thing for barroom duos, no sequencers!

I think the power supply on the Classic is dodgy, M/S will have to wait a few weeks.

[garyb]

man, what is with these guys that think that hanging out with musicians means never needing an excuse?

see, he priced himself out of the gig.


thanks! lesson learned.

[wayne]

- Yeah, old & wise enough now to cut some passengers out, no matter how good they play (on the right cocktail of medication, sporadically, that is)

That's not really what this is about, though - it's a great experiment in "rhythm section as an instrument" - I play very simply most of the time, and try not to trip myself up by thinking about it. The real benefit happens when a singer/guitarist wants to throw in some random dynamics - bass & drums react at once. But it's simpler than it looks - it's just walking right - left most of the time, remembering to channel Al Jackson Jr.

I've done maybe 70 mostly duo gigs with this (plus tuba), and there's an entertainment value to it, as it can sound like a 4-piece with gob-iron & guitar & 2 vocals, just 2 blokes having a red-hot go

[garyb]

yeah, i see what you're doing. it can even look easy.

my wife(bassie in the band) laughs at how my face looks when i'm just trying to concentrate on playing my one note properly.

good on you. it's easier to pick up a bit as a duo than it is to try and go home with a profit as a seven piece...

[astroman]

that's way, way cool Wayne... and a nice representation of your JB, too.
I understand why people ask you to have a play on it (as you once mentioned)
Respect for handling this setup - I'd be in a total mess within seconds

cheers, Tom

[wayne]

Oh I can come unravelled on that thing no worries - that's why I use it mainly for the low-falutin Viking rock that is my genetic disposition

While we're at it, is there anything that says I can't use a cardioid matched pair as a figure 8? Might run that up the flagpole, see who salutes.


'Spect, W

[wayne]

On further research it seems I could do that if I summed L minus R, printed it, run to two hard-panned opposite phase channels.

[ChrisWerner]

Haven't tried that, but I guess you will run into problems when you look for a total cancelation, as the rear side of a cardioid is already phase reversed, so you will always have a dirty phase reverse. You have to reach total cancelation between the two channels (original and direct out copy phase reversed) of the eight, before you pan them to L and R.

[wayne]

Yeah, total cancellation would be what I get if I did this: sum left and phase reversed right to a mono channel (side), split it to two mono channels, pan them and phase reverse one side of that??

Or did I just disappear up my own fundament in a puff of wishful phase alignment?

[ChrisWerner]

Have you tried it, how it went out? Any sound discolorations ?

[Nestor]

How did I miss on this one!

Great fun Wayne

Hey, I've got an idea, it will complicate things a bit, but at the same time, it is totally in the way you're building your ghost drummer:

I'll try to explain myself the best way... Take a couple of small symbals or, eeven better, Hi-Hats, and put them in between your knees, then of course, you will have to find the way things are close enough for you to hit them against each other, and you'll solve the problem. If you had this, you would be able to play tight, and also eventyally, fake a brake final with a good splash opening your legs enough... Yea, that's crazy, but believeme, I WANT TO SEE IT! Please!!!

The way to hold the HI-Hat to your knees seems to be complicated, but it is not that mach, as long as you don't spare too much from each other. And the way to hold them to your knees would by through some sort of adaptation, probably, some strings around your legs.

[wayne]

Ha! I would look even more like a monkey

But seriously, when you're sitting down playing this thing, naturally with the bass amp at your back, the snare gets resonating with percussive bass playing on off beats and does a fair amount of playing itself. Also, to play properly, I'm bouncing off the pedals with the balls of the feet, heels off the ground - you put your leg into it. Cymbals wouldn't be possible as the legs are spread.

On the video I'm mucking around a fair bit, but at a gig it's mainly 2&4 on the left, 1&3 on the right and the odd fill, while concentrating mainly on the bass. Although tonight at a pub in the hills I managed to get comfortable enough to get a New Orleans/Bo Diddley thing going, which in turn made me think I should practice a bit more and get some more things up.. .. .