Though I'm experiencing bad issues with bass freq (almost continuos pollution from the outside probably leading to tinnitus issues), I've choose to add a subwoofer to my old Truth B2031.
I'm wondering how I should set things up.
Considering I'll gonna use 4 outs (2 stereo pairs, 1 for the speakers, 1 for the subwoofer), how should I set (software) filters for these outputs?
bass frequencies
bass frequencies
Last edited by Cochise on Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: bass frequencies
... probably it should be better adding the freq response chart for the B2031 to this post
Re: bass frequencies
DASGOST are coming up with a FIR Linear Phase Crossover. Would that help ?
http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/plugins ... manual.htm
http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/plugins ... manual.htm
Re: bass frequencies
Sure.
I was forgetting phase issues. It looks a bit more complex than I figured out
I was forgetting phase issues. It looks a bit more complex than I figured out
Re: bass frequencies
...Can't find enough info about how to get it
Re: bass frequencies
If you email Eric from DAS he can advise you about suitability and availability
Re: bass frequencies
Why not get a sub that has an integrated subwoofer? I can't get the manual to work of the Behringer website but most speakers have controls for bass cut & 'room size' that can help filter the low end out of the speakers themselves, assuming the sub doesn't have pass-through connectors that will do that.
Re: bass frequencies
Of course B2031 has got a low cut switch (-2 to -6 dB), which they say can be used for tuning with subwoofer, but I can't find the cutoff freq stated anywhere.
As for the subwoofer itself, I'm considering a kit from Ciare; they provide cabinet components (prepared wood walls and reflex ducts) and the speaker. The cabinet is ready to host an amp module (which not come with the kit). This amp has tuning capabilities, but I'm not planning to buy it soon, I'll rather try to adapt some circuitry I've here, in first istance.
@Valis
Are you still using the Beyer DT880 pro?
As for the subwoofer itself, I'm considering a kit from Ciare; they provide cabinet components (prepared wood walls and reflex ducts) and the speaker. The cabinet is ready to host an amp module (which not come with the kit). This amp has tuning capabilities, but I'm not planning to buy it soon, I'll rather try to adapt some circuitry I've here, in first istance.
@Valis
Are you still using the Beyer DT880 pro?
Re: bass frequencies
Actually it looks like the kit doesn't include the speaker
Re: bass frequencies
That's wrong. The speaker is included, just it comes in a separate box and I erroneously left it at the shop.... 
Re: bass frequencies
Yep still using my dt880 pro's. Hopefully you went back & retrieved the speaker too 
Re: bass frequencies
Sure. Actually the seller wasn't aware too of the two boxes. When I asked him he said: I was just wondering why Ciare sent me this speaker I didn't ordered.
I'm almost done with the cabinet (feel like my hands are burning now)
I had kind of bad paints choice (wood ain't MDF) and the thing now looks anyway similar to my grands' tubes radio
Jokes apart I'm considering not to filter the speakers at all and make the sub works below the speakers range. Does it make sense?
I'm almost done with the cabinet (feel like my hands are burning now)
I had kind of bad paints choice (wood ain't MDF) and the thing now looks anyway similar to my grands' tubes radio
Jokes apart I'm considering not to filter the speakers at all and make the sub works below the speakers range. Does it make sense?
Re: bass frequencies
That makes plenty of sense, but you will want to filter the sub itself with whatever control it provides (lowpass filter). Ideally it should have a sweepable filter and you can set it so that the rolloffs of the speakers and the sub combine to 'flatten' where there would normally be a dropoff. That's why I was asking what controls your speakers had, sometimes using the 'half space' or raising the speaker's own low end controls (my mackies have a built in filter that has 3 steps from 37hz up to 80hz) to tune the speakers in 'full range' input to the sub...
Re: bass frequencies
before filtering the sub, shouldn't you filter the room ? (for eq acoustics, trebles, mediums, and then bass as the sub is to be placed lastly.. that's where most frequency cancellation or blurring will happen, whetever you do to the sub, you will do it in consideration of the room , so it's generally better that it is done first... but well, it is very expensive so... do your best... what is important is that you like the sound and that you can work with it..
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ChrisWerner
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Re: bass frequencies
Here you go.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/downloads/p ... 8_S_EN.pdf
Well, don't mess around with your room, it is contaminated from outside, not to fix before you win in lotto.
Also , my assumption, don't mess around a lot with filtering / phase because your room will play tricks, again lotto.
Just setup the sub on your second outs, open your windows and strike back.
Seriously, aim for a crossover freq of 50 Hz, fiddle around with the pad switches on the B2031s
and maybe keep in mind that you always can adjust things with an EQ in your mixing / Ctrl room mixer.
Old spoken truth, trust your ears and let me add, your heart.
But please be aware, first you will get a woow effect when the sub shakes your body, walls and furnishings.
Check your mixes elsewhere, you quickly always tend to booth the woow to much in the beginning.
It needs time but adding a sub to your monitors is always the right choice ! Maybe two subs?
Good luck.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/downloads/p ... 8_S_EN.pdf
Well, don't mess around with your room, it is contaminated from outside, not to fix before you win in lotto.
Also , my assumption, don't mess around a lot with filtering / phase because your room will play tricks, again lotto.
Just setup the sub on your second outs, open your windows and strike back.
Seriously, aim for a crossover freq of 50 Hz, fiddle around with the pad switches on the B2031s
and maybe keep in mind that you always can adjust things with an EQ in your mixing / Ctrl room mixer.
Old spoken truth, trust your ears and let me add, your heart.
But please be aware, first you will get a woow effect when the sub shakes your body, walls and furnishings.
Check your mixes elsewhere, you quickly always tend to booth the woow to much in the beginning.
It needs time but adding a sub to your monitors is always the right choice ! Maybe two subs?
Good luck.
Re: bass frequencies
>>>> Well, don't mess around with your room, it is contaminated from outside, not to fix before you win in lotto.
aaarrgg, choke, ....
You know that with 70 euros of crappy T Akustic pyramidenshaum put on the wall behind you you can already hear new high frequencies that would disppear otherwise... it stops MF/HF from coming back from behind and cancelling themselves with what is coming out of speakers. SO you hear much better those frequenies that are "included" in the speakers, but were cancelled.
My own mix quality boosted by at least 200% with just that
and you work faster and more easily !!!!
http://www.thomann.de/fr/the_takustik_p ... er_set.htm (it's cheap and any whealthy sound engineer will laugh at you, but well, we do what we can and we are the studio of the future anyways...).
The noise from outside can be disturning, but will not cancel frequencies from your speakers, it will mix with it. But it is not the same problem (if a sound from outside cancel the frequencies in your room, you should value this rare moment as some of the wonders of the world .
Now, may be CHris warned that it is now contamined with CEsium 137 and other funny radioactive elements.... ok i agree.... but the earth's still turning (if it was the end of world, i would be doing music and releasing it so....) (that was a line of cynical humor 'cause it's the morning here
Bass reflection is more complicated to tame, that's where it is expensive.
In my own room, the standing bass waves are quite far from the sweet spot, as they are concentrated in corners and don't come back to me at the same pressure, at the volume that i mix, it is all fine, but I don't have a sub (cause my speakers don't need it). I have tested some 200W BEhringer Truth lately, and yes, they do need a sub, i found them quite cold on the bass front personnally.... anyways... good luck, I must remaster 7 tracks for this evening and should be working on that already
Buti'd love to get a few bass traps... when i make money..
I calculated it is somewhere between 750 and 1000 euros to start on a 12m2 room, but some of the prices are crazy for bass trapping, so this might explode the budget.
Without bass trap, you must play with the volumes of your speakers to find a good balance and ways to work in such an environment.
When you put the volume loud, you MUST be conscious that the sound you hear at such volumes, is more the sound of the room than the sound of the speakers, so it is good to test a few times, but it is absolutely impossible to mix with quality at high volumes without full room treatment.
aaarrgg, choke, ....
You know that with 70 euros of crappy T Akustic pyramidenshaum put on the wall behind you you can already hear new high frequencies that would disppear otherwise... it stops MF/HF from coming back from behind and cancelling themselves with what is coming out of speakers. SO you hear much better those frequenies that are "included" in the speakers, but were cancelled.
My own mix quality boosted by at least 200% with just that
and you work faster and more easily !!!!
http://www.thomann.de/fr/the_takustik_p ... er_set.htm (it's cheap and any whealthy sound engineer will laugh at you, but well, we do what we can and we are the studio of the future anyways...).
The noise from outside can be disturning, but will not cancel frequencies from your speakers, it will mix with it. But it is not the same problem (if a sound from outside cancel the frequencies in your room, you should value this rare moment as some of the wonders of the world
.Now, may be CHris warned that it is now contamined with CEsium 137 and other funny radioactive elements.... ok i agree.... but the earth's still turning
(if it was the end of world, i would be doing music and releasing it so....) (that was a line of cynical humor 'cause it's the morning here Bass reflection is more complicated to tame, that's where it is expensive.
In my own room, the standing bass waves are quite far from the sweet spot, as they are concentrated in corners and don't come back to me at the same pressure, at the volume that i mix, it is all fine, but I don't have a sub (cause my speakers don't need it). I have tested some 200W BEhringer Truth lately, and yes, they do need a sub, i found them quite cold on the bass front personnally.... anyways... good luck, I must remaster 7 tracks for this evening and should be working on that already
Buti'd love to get a few bass traps... when i make money..
I calculated it is somewhere between 750 and 1000 euros to start on a 12m2 room, but some of the prices are crazy for bass trapping, so this might explode the budget.
Without bass trap, you must play with the volumes of your speakers to find a good balance and ways to work in such an environment.
When you put the volume loud, you MUST be conscious that the sound you hear at such volumes, is more the sound of the room than the sound of the speakers, so it is good to test a few times, but it is absolutely impossible to mix with quality at high volumes without full room treatment.
Re: bass frequencies
In other words spend a little time on bass trapping & subwoofer positioning. Otherwise the added subbass energy is just going to make the peaks/valleys in your room's low end response even more severe and thus increase issues in themix. I use a combination of furniture, shelves, wall hangings, acoustic foam, corkboard and some homemade bass traps (and a few auralex overpriced foam ones) and could still use a touch more.
Also when positioning the sub, place it in your seating position & walk around the room while playing a series of notes or sine wav sweeps to find the most even response. When you find that place, put the sub there and the response should be similar where you sit.
Also when positioning the sub, place it in your seating position & walk around the room while playing a series of notes or sine wav sweeps to find the most even response. When you find that place, put the sub there and the response should be similar where you sit.
Re: bass frequencies
>>>> Though I'm experiencing bad issues with bass freq (almost continuos pollution from the outside probably leading to tinnitus issues)
ok i understand now...
2 or 3 solutions:
- change window for a double frame window
- Insulate the room
- go live somewhere else if you can (if it is really a health problem, that's what you must do i guess).
ok i understand now...
2 or 3 solutions:
- change window for a double frame window
- Insulate the room
- go live somewhere else if you can (if it is really a health problem, that's what you must do i guess).
Re: bass frequencies
Ah I had missed that too.
Psychoacoustically I do think 'masking' them with a sub is a minor improvement but I know for a fact that I will write melodies that sympathize with the frequencies of my in-window AC units I've used in studios over the years. I know this because I notice that the mix changes when I turn the unit off and i'm in the midst of my writing process. So even though the speakers I have are loud enough to mask, I'm positive there's still an effect on the music I write. And I'm talking about the point that nothing is entering a mic, not contribution to the mix via actually recording those background sounds. This effect also occurs with my headphones as well, both because the vibrations of the AC go through my body as well as my ears and because the headphones are only semi-closed.
Psychoacoustically I do think 'masking' them with a sub is a minor improvement but I know for a fact that I will write melodies that sympathize with the frequencies of my in-window AC units I've used in studios over the years. I know this because I notice that the mix changes when I turn the unit off and i'm in the midst of my writing process. So even though the speakers I have are loud enough to mask, I'm positive there's still an effect on the music I write. And I'm talking about the point that nothing is entering a mic, not contribution to the mix via actually recording those background sounds. This effect also occurs with my headphones as well, both because the vibrations of the AC go through my body as well as my ears and because the headphones are only semi-closed.
Re: bass frequencies
i'd agree. even with contamination from outside sources, bass traps and diffusers are vital to getting a usable monitoring environment. such treatment doesn't need to be super expensive. $1500 would do an awesome job that's good enough for government work, and someone who is handy could spend a fraction of that. such a setup wouldn't compare to spending $100,000 or more, but it would definitely make the difference between being able to hear and guessing.