changing projects to modular mixer

[RP_001]

Hi,

I bought the modular mixer a couple of weeks ago and Id like to change my "basic project" to a modular-mixer environment.
Most of my projects look something like:

basic project.JPG (219.87 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

It works for a great part of the job, but has some drawbacks:

-the sidechain function of the stock compressor (and vinco also) doesnt work properly. When I use the stock compressor i manually have to reset the SC input for all compressors used.
-when i load more than one instance of a synth, i mostly have to recall my presets because it seems they get some sort of midi message which resets some parameters or silence the sound.

When reloading a project like this, it usually takes about 5/6 minutes to reload all presets to their original state, which can be very annoying sometimes..

So , would it be advisable to give every synth a seperate "midi seq source" so any "leaking" of midi messages would be kept to a mimimum?

Also, what would be the best modular solution for replacing a project like this? I like the idea of having 2 mixers like I have now, 1x for drums, 1x for synths. I have my PCM91 daisychained in AUX1 both mixers .It would be great to have the modular-sidechaining functions implemented, so i dont have to use the stock compressor which is bugged..

(I use a midisport 4x4 with cubase for sequencing; also for my external virus C and SE1X)

Any suggestions would be welcome.

[spacef]

Hi RP,
The way to do it is to count the number of mono and stereo channels in the whole project, and then take the Modular Mixer modules that come closer to this setup.

You use 2 mono channels, and about 20 stereo channels. The closest number to 22 is 24 inputs (actually, by looking again at the picture, you have around 24 channels, as you also use the T-Channels as stereo channels... didn't noticed that at first glance)
I would use the FP4L + 2*10S (to keep two modules for asio and synths). (or, one of 10, and one of 12, for example)

But what I do not see is the number of Aux used.
For the moment, the modular mixers offers groupers of 24/6aux (R247) or 24/4 (R245), going to an MB7.

The choice between a mixer using the Levelled modules, or the Stems (groupers with Levels+mute/solo ie all that is essential in a mixer, but without a single insert slot) is really up to you.
Stems are good to have all essential functions of a mixer in a single module (mute/solo/levels/sends), while effects are either directly in the project if you use only a few, or if you use "non-levelled" channel modules (have only inserts + mute/solo) to keep it more tidy.

You could also imagine a mixer made of a mixture of FP and Modular mixer for example (it allows to use a lighter router and MAster Bus modules).

For the sidechaining, the Sidechainers will allow to keep the presets/project setting on project reload, but curently only allow 2 Sidechain signals inputs (to route to whichever channel you want).
Sidechainers don't use a compressor, but only the VCA Part of a "compressor" (ie similar to compressor with threshold= - inf.dB).. so they remain quite light (much lighter than using compressors).

As for manual, there are a few tutorials on my site, as well as description of various modules and projects (see also the project galery as there is text in the picture - you will find projects wich go over 24 channels and that are close to what you want to achieve in the spirit (check the "36 channels projects). From there you can expand the explanations to setups of yours. It certainly does not present all scenarios possible as it is difficult to predict all you can do with such mixers. By using the smaller Groupers (G 62/82 , or Routers of 12) you can do more sophisticated setups by submixing various groups of your mix (with more cabling in the project window though...).

Then, there is the "dsp assignment" of xite with is unknown to me, but if you are able to use 2 FP Mixers + 1 MB4-II and all the synths etc in a single xite project, then it should be no problem to build a big modular mixer setup (I cannot test this, I rely only on what poeple say and pictures they post, as I have no other way to determine what is appropriate on Xite).

I hope it helps a bit.

Mehdi

[spacef]

ps: for the midi, it is also up to you.
I personnally always have at least 3 midi seq sources even if I don't use them each time, but sometimes I do (1 for synths, 1 for mixers/CC to have up to 16 midi channels for the mixer) and a third one which I use mainly for a better organization (depending on what I will send through midi, i sometime prefer to use another seq source rather than another midi channel).

[dawman]

I know the Virus is the Analog Source Module, so I am assuming the Mic DI
using the Sample Delay Device must be the SE-1X.

http://www.planetz.com/Pulsar/files/mod ... toMIDI.dev

Try this device on the SE-1X.
You'll need to edit a patch on the SE and have the VCF being modulated by
CC # 74 from at0ms' Modular Patch. But set the LFO rate at a slow setting and
listen to what a real Filter sounds like as it growls.
This gives you a realtime option for jamming in case you dont want the sequencer
having to be turned on.

Also try the Project Preset List and just have presets that are called up songs,
or MIDI scenarios where you don't wan't to call up another Scope project or
disconnect the Seq. Source or Dest Modules.
This requires using several MIDI Filters, or as SpaceF mentioned, Seq. MIDI
Source or Dest extras, but the idea of having a hands off project and using
the Virus or another hardware controller to change presets in the Project Preset
List is very handy.
Your PCM91 needs to be LFO'd, or have its presets changed too probably.
These are great little helpers for me when I gig, and now that I am learning
Reaper and actually recording, the MIDI Filters being changed by the Project
Preset List are a blessing..

Untitled.jpg

[spacef]

I think this project allows the same channel and aux count in total.
I can't load as much synths so I've used adats modules and did not connect all the inputs, but the spirit is the same.

[RP_001]

Thanks a lot guys for explaining! I will turn on my studio within an hour and try some of the tips above..

[RP_001]

So far so good. I made a similar project like Mehdi did. I left out the mono channels because 2x12 stereo channels are more than enough for now. I will do the midi part tomorrow, as it seems i need some more midi cables. The project below is used with cubase. I dont necesseraly need it for a Live situation, but it would be great if i could do some "sketching" without a sequencer sometimes. I havent used the Midi IN of xite yet.

I have a JX305 as masterkeyboard (to midisport 4x4) via usb, and also a BCR2000 midi controller. Could i combine these two as "One Masterkeyboard" for my xite midi in?? I dont use any sound from the jx305; it's only for playing notes..

First impressions are great Mehdi!! I hear the same awesome HP filters in the 12SL as in the FP106? and also panning pots !! And more accurate metering for the filter freq..

I will now try the sidechaining functions.. If I want the kick to be the SC input, should I only send a mono channel of the kick to the SC1/SC2 input on the 242?

basic project new A.JPG (192.83 KiB) Viewed 6211 times

I will update this later on, when i find even better connections..

p.s. Jimmy, Im not sure what you mean by "LFOing the PCM91..

Cheers!

[spacef]

>>>>>>
First impressions are great Mehdi!! I hear the same awesome HP filters in the 12SL as in the FP106?
>>>>>>

Absolutely, why change a good thing


>>>>>
.. If I want the kick to be the SC input, should I only send a mono channel of the kick to the SC1/SC2 input on the 242?
>>>>>

Yes, you need one input only , so you plug it to either SC1 or SC 2 (unless you want a stereo sidechain, then you would use both SC1 and 2..) ...
There are tutorials that I suggest to watch to find the right settings, it is easy to get lost between the "modulation amplitude", "offset" and "output gain"... while the "shape" of the modulation is mainly controlled by the input signal + Attack/Release of the envelope follower.
http://www.spacef-devices.com/index.php ... &Itemid=17
Let me know if you cannot get where you want to get.

Thanks for the pics , infos, and kind words

NB: a mono effect, or mono channel module, could perfectly be connected to a stereo channel with no problem In you setup, if you need a mono signal from time to time, you could load a mono effect rack (ora mono eq/filter/whetever) and plug it to the last inputs of the SC module (that's simply done by connecting the mono output to the L/R inputs of a stereo channel or SC module.

[spacef]

and of course the Sidechain modules can be put in any place in the circuit for creative sound shaping:
- pre-channels like on the picture (the basic sidechain technic)
- between channels and stems/routers (mainly allows "post-effect" Sidechaining, which can be fun on time-based effects like delays and verbs)
- between stems/routers and master bus (to group several sounds to be effected by the same sidechain: monopolizes a group output, but allows to use the smallest SC module)

[RP_001]

ok, I understand most of the basic featues like routing and grouping of the project above, which is good so far..

The only problem now is with the midi routing. In my old projects i did everything via my midisport 4x4 in cubase. Playing synths and controlling also my external gear worked fine like that. The MIDI IN module on Xite was not used, and sometimes the MIDI OUT to the PCM91 for sending the tempo.

I had in mind to connect my JX305 (masterkeyboard) to the MIDI IN of my Behringer BCR2000 and connect the BCR2000 MIDI OUT to the MIDI IN of Xite. The JX305 & BCR2000 would act like "one masterkeyboard/controller", for controlling with and without sequencer. Is it possible to do it this way? I havent had any luck yet.. When I open cubase, and select a channel to play a scope synth, it doesnt work.When I play the JX305 I can only hear my external SE1X which is connected to Xite MIDI Dest. I've also tried some settings in cubase (MIDI Thru ON/OFF) and connect MIDI from scope to the Sequencer Dest module which results in feedback loops.

Are there any other connections which makes this possible, or can it only be done using the "old" way using the sequencer?? I dont need it for a Live situation so using a sequencer is no problem of course, but it would be cool to have the JX305 work with the BCR2000 to control some synths "pre-cubase"..

For now, I will connect everything the old way, and check out some of your sidechaining tricks and find out the best DSP assignments and work on from there..

[dawman]

Having the 4 x 4 in hardware and software filters should allow endless options.

If you would explain the Ins and Outs of your 4 x 4, I am confident we can come up with a solution.

Below is basically a Scope / Reaper config, but I have an 8 x 8 hardware merger,
and also use hardware effects, and Analog synths all controlled by the Oxygen
88 and Reaper. The Project Preset List is where these complex routings and options
can be stored and recalled.

Below I have an example of 3 sources of MIDI controlling my SE-1.
I am playing the notes on my hardware controller ( 1st data stream )
Then the Modular patch is sending MIDI for Filter Modulation ( 2nd Stream )
And Reaper is sending volume, effects levels, delay rate, envelope and resonance
modualtions, etc. ( 3rd stream ).
I see no sense in recording the audio of the SE-1 since the sound is degraded, but having all of its MIDI recorded is an enhancement.
It's nice to be playing the synth notes on a controller and have everything controlled automatically.

So if this type of complexity can be used in realtime, I see no reason you can't achieve similar gratification.

My success comes from using the Project Preset List to recall snapshots.

[RP_001]

allright

this is how I connect the 4x4 right now.

Midi IN A = Roland JX305
Midi IN B = Virus C
Midi IN C = BCR2000
Midi IN D = SE1X

Midi OUT A = /
Midi OUT B = Virus C
Midi OUT C = /
Midi OUT D = SE1X

Xite MIDI IN & OUT not connected

My "basic" setting needs that I can record midi in cubase like I do now.
For "jamming purposes", I could also just connect the BCR to Xite MIDI IN for controlling parameters, and then use something like Hubi's Loopback Device, so i can then both use the JX305(4x4 Midi IN A) and the BCR2000 for controlling scope synths on MIDI IN of xite..

Thanks for thinking with me !

cheers!

[dawman]

Let me get this correct.........
The MIDI Out of the SE-1X is going to a MIDI In on the 4 x 4.....?

I am sure you have a good reason for this, but explain to me before I start trying to think of alternative solutions....

[RP_001]

Yes, you're right. This is how I used the SE1X for sequencing in cubase in my last track. This way, in cubase I can send midi parameter changes with the SE1x pots and record them in cubase...

Yesterday, I tried some other connections also using the JX305+BCR to Xite MIDI IN, and Midi Seq Source 1 to Xite Midi Dest (SE1X). I could play the SE1X directly but in cubase I couldnt use any of the scope synths.

basic project midi.JPG (81.3 KiB) Viewed 5934 times

[spacef]

Isn't merging 2 sources together (xite+its image from daw ? ) a possible cause of midi overload, which could cause no sound due to too much data at the same time received by scope synths ?
It could happen when the Cubase midi track receiving data is on "Record - On"' mode and sends back the same data to be merged with the original source. It could happen in the above picture if you send [xite midi source] to [midi-seq-dest 1] ? if yes a solution is probably to add another midi-seq-source or dests and merge differently...

[dawman]

Man Or Myth................2Zani.
Ankyu.

I was thinking the same, hence the question.
The extra Seq Source/Dest modules make sense.
I have no troubles but have to see how the extra modules act.
I plan on using Reaper for lots of automations, including lights, and those DMX controllers
are going to be a huge increase in data.

Glad we all are sharing ideas here.

[RP_001]

Isn't merging 2 sources together (xite+its image from daw ? ) a possible cause of midi overload, which could cause no sound due to too much data at the same time received by scope synths ?
It could happen when the Cubase midi track receiving data is on "Record - On"' mode and sends back the same data to be merged with the original source. It could happen in the above picture if you send [xite midi source] to [midi-seq-dest 1] ? if yes a solution is probably to add another midi-seq-source or dests and merge differently...

Yes, it seems like this is happening when connecting a keyboard to the Xite midi IN.. It "doubles" both midi data from both scope midi in & midi played in cubase.

I will try adding various seq. source modules after work tonight

[RP_001]

I found a better midi routing for use with or without sequencer.

My masterkeyboard (Jx305) Is still in in 4x4 usb device. I connected the BCR2000 to Xite1 Midi IN. Xite Midi OUT is connected to the SE1X. In Hubi's Loopback device I select USB MIDI IN (JX305) as my MIDI input. I can use now both Jx305 and BCR2000.

When I dont need a sequencer I load Midi's Loopback Device and select one of the xite1's sequencer midi sources. For example, Seq Midi Source 1 is Scope synths / Sequencer Midi Source 2 is SE1X.

When I need a sequencer, I just close Hubi's device and open up cubase. So far, I can use both JX305 for playing and BCR for changing parameters. I have to select the proper midi channel on both devices though..

I might place some midi filters somewhere, but for now it's already better then it was..

basic project new B.JPG (217.81 KiB) Viewed 5602 times