Daw Controllers

[Humblesoul]

Can anybody give me an idea of a good controller to use with scope?My daw is Samplitude 9 Pro.

Thanks James

[pollux]

Scope itself only supports midi control, and it doesn't output any feedback to the controller.

Devices only support a single midi channel, which is fine for plugins, but not enough for mixers.

Wolf's mixers support the Mackie Control with feedback to the controller


I use XTC mode, and I control the DAW with a Mackie Control + a Mackie C4.. It rocks

[David]

Sending Midi parameters to external devices is covered in this topic (courtesy of forum member 'next to nothing') and is mentioned in other topics throughout the forum.

I'm not sure this is exactly what you're after but with Modular you can do just about anything!

[rhythmaster]

Does anyone know a controller which recognizes when the mouse is over e.g. a fader and I can modify the value with a knob??

Steinberg's CC121 can do this. Are there other controllers????

Thanks

H.

[next to nothing]

you mean like rightclicking on any scope fader and turning a knob?

[Tau]

Does anyone know a controller which recognizes when the mouse is over e.g. a fader and I can modify the value with a knob??

Steinberg's CC121 can do this. Are there other controllers????

Thanks

H.

the Novation Nocturn

[siriusbliss]

Samplitude and Sequoia V11 do handle Euphonix controllers now, as well as Mackie, and I'm using a Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer, which responds to all automation and plugin routing ('external' hardware routing out/into Samplitude) - including moving faders.

However, I don't use XTC mode, so the controller goes 'around' Scope to control Samplitude, while Scope is transparent.

Yes, Scope (for now) only handles MIDI control.

Greg

[Humblesoul]

Thanks for the info.

[at0m]

Scope [...] doesn't output any feedback to the controller.

If you have a bi-directional MIDI connection, and appropriate CC# are assigned, turning a knob with the mouse will send the assigned CC# to the MIDI output of the device, updating your control surface/sequencer/...

It doesn't send its whole 'state' on startup though. Select a Scope preset, and all knob/button changes will be transmitted. (So, if volume on CC#7 remains at 100, it will not be sent IIRC.) You'd need to wiggle each knob and cycle each button, or, more quickly, jump through presets.

In that sense, the feedback might be incomplete, but it'd be far-fetched to say it wouldn't output any feedback.

[netguyjoel]

My question is...With a Tascam US 2400, or a BCF 2000, if I recall a Scope project, will the project return the motorised faders to that same position, of the last mix, or do I have to store the preset in the hardware controller and load it too?

[dawman]

I am not familiar with their specs but I used a QX-1 and the DMP7/PCM70 totally MIDI controlled back in '85. The sequencer could automate all 255 MIDI parameters of MIDI and never knowing what scene ( song ) I would be needing, each tune had a preset. Each scene had it's own settings, and even had fade in/out patterns. etc.
So I would say yes, but PChnge messages should get you close, and then tweaks if necessary.
Motorized faers have no real value IMHO. Sure they look great, but once racked up vertically they become slow and eventually burn out. Yamaha never envisoned that and actually replaced them for free so I could sell it to the next chump........
After the DMP7 you'll notice they stayed away from motorized faders on their Pro line for a couple years.
The Pro1 mixer I think they called it was an awesome live keyboard mixer and even recorded pretty darn good for less than half the price of the DMP7.

[nightscope]

I have a BCF2000, which does faders, pans, auxs, eq's, transport, automation and a few other bibs and bobs in Samplitude in MCU mode with the bcfview.exe HUD. Novation Nocturn does the VST/VSTi plugs. Bitstream 3X does the spacef's and some of the Scope stuff I've mapped out in Scopeland. I recently tried the Minimax out using the Nocturn as a normal CC controller rather than in Automap mode, which you can't use in Scope anyway, and it is very nice. Move anything on the Nocturn and Scope device responds. Move anything in Scope, Nocturn responds. Load a preset in Scope, Nocturn mirrors all of it, so we got full parameter feedback in Scopeland. Main drawback of the little Nocturn is it has only 8 knobs, 8 buttons and a crossfader which can be assigned to anything and has no onboard display. So for largish Scope devices that means a lot of pages to flip through in the Nocturn to get to the control parameters you're after.

I binned the idea of getting a Mackie Pro as it won't do that much more than the BCF. I've had one on order since July and still no sign of it. So I'm getting a Novation Zero SL Mk2 which should be here early next week. Thing about this for me as a Scoper is that you can switch between Automap mode and normal CC mode with one Zero button press. The host VST/VSTi stuff is controlled with Automap on it's own USB port. Scopeland with normal CC's on the standard midi ports or on another USB channel. Lots of knobs and things, touch sensitive and on board display. Drumpads can be assigned to anything MIDI-like. Speed dial can flip thro normal CC templates to get to the various Scope devices setups real quick; as well as doing the mouse trick. Well, that's the theory, have to see what happens when it arrives.

ns

[siriusbliss]

I have a BCF2000, which does faders, pans, auxs, eq's, transport, automation and a few other bibs and bobs in Samplitude in MCU mode with the bcfview.exe HUD. Novation Nocturn does the VST/VSTi plugs. Bitstream 3X does the spacef's and some of the Scope stuff I've mapped out in Scopeland. I recently tried the Minimax out using the Nocturn as a normal CC controller rather than in Automap mode, which you can't use in Scope anyway, and it is very nice. Move anything on the Nocturn and Scope device responds. Move anything in Scope, Nocturn responds. Load a preset in Scope, Nocturn mirrors all of it, so we got full parameter feedback in Scopeland. Main drawback of the little Nocturn is it has only 8 knobs, 8 buttons and a crossfader which can be assigned to anything and has no onboard display. So for largish Scope devices that means a lot of pages to flip through in the Nocturn to get to the control parameters you're after.

I binned the idea of getting a Mackie Pro as it won't do that much more than the BCF. I've had one on order since July and still no sign of it. So I'm getting a Novation Zero SL Mk2 which should be here early next week. Thing about this for me as a Scoper is that you can switch between Automap mode and normal CC mode with one Zero button press. The host VST/VSTi stuff is controlled with Automap on it's own USB port. Scopeland with normal CC's on the standard midi ports or on another USB channel. Lots of knobs and things, touch sensitive and on board display. Drumpads can be assigned to anything MIDI-like. Speed dial can flip thro normal CC templates to get to the various Scope devices setups real quick; as well as doing the mouse trick. Well, that's the theory, have to see what happens when it arrives.

ns

Sweet!

I'm looking for a good overall controller for Xite that can be mapped to multiple devices, so this gives me some ideas.
(Samplitude is handled via Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer here).

Thanks,

Greg

[nightscope]

You can only have full parameter feedback on devices that have a midi in & a midi out, obviously. JB's stuff, the Creamware synths, the mixers and wotnot.

Zero Mk2 manual.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... RhuXHdA3Ow

I originally was only getting this for more control in the host. The fact that it can be used with Scope effectively is a bonus. Again, in theory. But it should work exactly the same as the Nocturn.

Hopefully.

I will report back in the fullness of time.

ns

[auricle]

Well, I have a Lemur waiting for me in the UK. I'll pick it up when I go back for Christmas.

The Lemur doesn't have MIDI ins or outs - just an ethernet port for OSC. A server applet converts the OSC messages to MIDI for control of DAWs and other devices. I'll have to get my head around the whole internal routing of MIDI messages to and from Scope, the DAW and the Lemur!

[Chisel]

I'm curious how well the nocturn device works with Scope in XTC mode. Can you wrap the dlls? Does it work the same as VSTs? Does the "speed dial" function work? I think that's a brilliant idea to hover the mouse over any control and turn the knob without having to do any mapping. Anybody with a nocturn and using XTC mode that can answer these questions?

Peace \/
chisel316

[the19thbear]

i use reaper, scope in xtc mode and a bc2000.
Works like a charm! i just press a a button ( i have labeled it "FX") and then it automatically learns all CC's of the selected channels plugin.

If the plugin has more than 8 sliders/knobs/buttons, i can bank through the layers on the bcf2000, and if i have, say 3 fxs inserted on one channel, 3 of the bcf2000 buttons light up. If i press the first button i can control the first fx's sliders/knobs, and if i press the second button i can control the second fx's sliders/knobs and so forth.

Its great!

[nightscope]

I'm curious how well the nocturn device works with Scope in XTC mode. Can you wrap the dlls? Does it work the same as VSTs? Does the "speed dial" function work? I think that's a brilliant idea to hover the mouse over any control and turn the knob without having to do any mapping. Anybody with a nocturn and using XTC mode that can answer these questions?

Peace \/
chisel316

Nocturn/SL works with XTC automapped wrapped .dll's. Same as any VST/VSTi. How well it works is dependant on what automation controls have been included in the plugin by the developer originally.

Speed dial works OK. The cursor sticks to the control so long as you maintain skin contact with the dial. If it's broken you have to re-mouseover. It would be nice to a have a stick toggle option button[STOB] which would retain the assignment until you decided it was all over. So no matter what you did, release the dial, do the hokey cokey, it would still be assigned when you went back to using the dial. So, basically it's fine so long as you remember to keep your grip on the dial. It works far better in the host than in Scopeland. With Scope device controls it is actually unusable, increment jumps are massive.

ns

[Chisel]

Well, I ordered the Nocturn yesterday and it was waiting for me when I got home from work tonight (I live 20 mins from audiomidi). Within minutes of opening the box I had it connected, installed, and controlling my Creamware VSTs in XTC mode. This thing is amazing! All of the controllers I've used before this had some level of separation with the editor. For example, I always had to launch an editor, create a template, save the template, and send it to the controller device. With the Nocturn, the editing is on-the-fly! I can literally load any VST (including all of my Creamware devices in XTC mode), clear the template, and learn the entire VST in a few minutes such that all controls are layed out across the controller's pages in an organized fashion. I just enable Learn mode on the Nocturn, move a control on the plug-in with the mouse and touch (yes, it's touch sensitive) one of Nocturn's controls and it's mapped! I can also change the resolution of the controls with ease! All this without ever leaving my DAW! And best of all... I don't have to touch the Scope MIDI mapping. Once the dll is wrapped, there is a tight coupling between the plug-in and the controller. If this is not the best reason to use XTC mode, I don't know what is. I'm really impressed! Gotta go.. I'm off to map MiniMax!

Update: Just finished mapping MiniMax and now I know for sure that the mapping issues I've had in the past having nothing to do with MIDI. Each plug-in exposes a list of controls. This is how Nocturn is able to map controls without using MIDI. It gets the list from the plug-in. Well, it turns out that some of the controls in MiniMax have the same ID or whatever key is used to make them distinct. Luckily, there are only a few controls that don't map correctly, so I'm still extremely pleased!

Peace \/
chisel316

[garyb]

all in all, that sounds great!