Mac advantages?

[Bifop]

I've been double booting my laptop beetween Windows 7 and leopard 10.5.7 for two months and I quite like it.

Recently I went ahead and built a nice pc rack rig with a Gigabyte EX58-UD5, I7 920, 6 gigs DDR3, two Nvidia double head card and I'm waiting for a Decklink HD extreme to arrive soon (3x19" LCD monitors and a 37" Lcd TV). I've installed a retail Snow Leopard rig. Everything works (including apple update) except my SonicCore Cards . It was mainly for Final Cut pro 7 since the original G5 video machine was not up to the task.
I have spare (in hd caddies) systems : Win 7/32 & Win 7/64. This rig beeing used full time these days with video editing, It doesn't get used in windows at all.
I find the apple OS very pleasing to work with. Lots of little details (especially in snow leopard) makes me think of switching platform for the audio too.

At the moment my former rig is still 100% functionnal and installed (2x wide 19" lcd monitor). The Apple rig is connected via optical spdif (the motherboard's one) to the scope win xp sp 3 rig. I have a spare luna + 2 adat I/O bracket in this machine as well but no mac drivers for it yet. An Mbox mini 2 is installed so I can run the Protools 8.03 pre release (not doing so well at the moment...).

It sure would be great to have mac drivers for 10.6 one day for the SC cards, but I doubt it'll arrive anytime soon. So I'm using the SFP mode (yes...) and I might stay there. I'll be getting a digi 003R soon and I'll use the Minimax/C4T etc... in external instrument mode and I'll use a few instances of the nice SC reverbs in ext fx with protools and Nuendo on the mac (via the adat connection).
If it's too cumbersome, I still can come back to windows with a reboot/swap disk tray in a couple of minutes.
Ideal !


If you're into tweaking, coming from the pc world even gives you an advantage to mac only heads since it gives you the "cmd prompt ability". Let me explain. Building a Hackintosh rig implies some computer experience at a deeper level ; carefully choosing the components, finding the right kexts, the right method (Vanilla/patched distro or EFI/Extra... ?), tweaking the com.apple.boot.plist, the dstd table etc... Some cmd prompt syntax knowledge etc...
After you've gone through this, you can pretty much tweak/Modify/fix a real mac too. And that happens very fast trust me !

Here at work (we are an independent 3D, photography, print, film & music production company) there are lots of PCs (3D render farm) and macs (print, 2K video compositing and special fx with 8 core mac pro, kona hd card etc..., ).
In the last weeks, I've seen the expression of the guys coming in the studio to see the rig's construction progress going from "Yeah, dream on" to "Woaw it works !". Now it is "Can you help me out on this hardware mac issue I have ?" time ! I've realised most (even very high end specialist) mac users don't go that far in the os knowledge.

Since my studio is getting used in various tasks (audio and/or video work) and is used by inhouse and freelance technicians having a mac os rig is MANDATORY.
For the first time, I don't have to justify why I'm on Nuendo instead of Protools or why on Windows instead of the so called elitist Mac world. I've got both !!!

I don't know if it's the novelty factor, but the Mac os thing is growing on me lately ! help !!!


Bifop

[dawman]

You sound like the AVguys I run with here in Vegas.
3 x guys all w/ MacPro 2.66/2.93 and 8GB PC slaves of the AMD and Intel flavors.
Logic/PT/DP and Nuendo/Scope and Cubase PC's.
Heavy video archiving and Graphics too.
The MacPro's are amazingly powerful considering the slow RAM and midrange CPU's.
One guy is using VE Pro which is what I want to use once I see the support cover a few more proprietary developers.
They all use VSTi synths though and that's why they call me......
I have heard some really decent VSTi synths like Zebra and Omnisphere, but I can do the same on my rig and the low end grit and analog filters are a step above in terms of realism and sound.
I could never use those CPU killer synths anyways, for a patch to load I could boot a PC...

Hats Off 2U, nice stuff to play with....

[astroman]

... In the last weeks, I've seen the expression of the guys coming in the studio to see the rig's construction progress going from "Yeah, dream on" to "Woaw it works !". Now it is "Can you help me out on this hardware mac issue I have ?" time ! I've realised most (even very high end specialist) mac users don't go that far in the os knowledge. ...

you nail it pretty well, Bifop
even as a Mac 'specialist' you hardly needed any OS knowledge at all... until the introduction of OSX

to be honest the biggest difficulty in 'updating' my knowledge (regarding OSX) is the fact that my head often refuses to be bothered with content located somewhere between clumsyness and stupidity.
The stuff itself is fairly easy, but I can't agree with Bishop about ...the purity of the concept... anymore

cheers, Tom

[iSiStOy]

I simply should get high, make music with SC cards on Windows XP and say it's all good!

Definitively not! Totally agree with Stardust here! I'm so ashamed not to have the knowledge of "external world" (to M$) so please, share some more of your experiments!
... And of course, get high making music as much as possible..

[King of Snake]

I'm a purely PC user at home and only Mac at work (graphic design/video). Personally I have never found any major preference for one or the other in terms of usability or stability.
I've always built my own pc's and have generally had nice and stable systems although it's true that to get it all up and running and keep it that way requires a bit more tinkering and maintance on windows generally than on a Mac.
I've definitely had a few hair-pulling problems with some of the Macs at work too though, from failing hardware, to buggy software.
Myself I like the open ended nature of the PC but I understand it's not for everyone.

[darkrezin]

I'm running a hackintosh so I get no benefits of unified tech support/standard hardware/trendy look etc (although I have an apple sticker on the case ).

I personally simply believe Mac OSX is a better OS than any version of Windows I used. Vista/W7 interface makes me want to puke. The biggest joke for me is that MS copied lots of superficial graphical gimmicks from OSX, but none of the actual benefits (clean standardised menus/prefs, ownership/permissions system that isn't a total pig to use, rock solid multi-client audio/MIDI, no hassly driver installs, the list goes on and on).

I recognize that MS has legacy support concerns, but IMHO they should forget about the past now and move forward. They could keep selling XP for people who have old hardware, and go forward without the shackles of old standards. But of course it will never happen. I don't think I could ever willingly go back to Windows now (incidentally I used purely Windows systems for 15-20 years, always built and tweaked my own machines, know XP inside-out).

[siriusbliss]

IMO in 5 years OS's will all be basically modular anyways.

Greg

[astroman]

... I recognize that MS has legacy support concerns, but IMHO they should forget about the past now and move forward. They could keep selling XP for people who have old hardware, and go forward without the shackles of old standards. But of course it will never happen. ...

yes, never ever - the rhythm is one step forward and two steps back

funny thing is that when Apple really had that custom OS, it was (effectively) more open than their half open source OSX
It was well documented, modular and you just could kick out any sh*t you didn't like or wanted.
Driver code was kept in the extensions folder of the system and dropping in or draging out was all you needed to install/uninstall
(Much of) the low level stuff within the system file could be tweaked with a resource editor, spiced up by a built in disassembler in case you were in doubt about the the module you were about to sack.
Since almost everything was loaded from the extension folder anyway, the system was quite tolerant about 'missing' items.
If a program called such a 'removed service', the user was informed that it wasn't available, and that was all about it.

I don't write this as a sentimental picture of the past, but it's the benchmark to beat when it comes to costs of managing and maintaining a system. Any system.
You were in complete control - today you don't even have the time to read the required docs...

Apple didn't trash this system for nothing, telling fairytales of limits and non-extensibility.
They were absolutely aware that they'd hardly ever sell a box again if they took advantage of upcoming hardware with such a slim footprint of the OS....

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

Tom, i believe this is exactly true.

[Bifop]

aHem Astroman, unles I totally misunderstood the subject, I don't think things have changed to that extend. Dstd table, Efi partition or PcEfi and such are only to fake macintosh "Apple Efi". It's more of a Hackintosh thang.
The com.apple.boot.plist is there on regular osx mac nowadays. Just a system preference to anything preboot related "Graphics Mode" for instance, or kernel boot status (32 or 64 bits etc).
It comes handy when you want to "inject" EFI strings (hexadecimal hardware descriptors) to the "Efi bios" (apple efi) on startup to stay native (vs injectors). The kext (kernal extension) folder is still a predominant item on the macintosh.

Since Apple went all intel, and can (via bootcamp) go the windows road, we're not that "unpure" going the other way round. But it for sure negates the concept of a few choosen compatible components and a shiny gucci case.
And like darkrezin I have the (official) apple logo on the computer rack case...

[darkrezin]

Astroman - totally agree.. the older Mac systems certainly were incredibly elegant and efficient. Although the exception is OMS - CoreAudio/CoreMIDI is pretty amazing in comparison

I believe the tendency towards bloat and support-dependent hardware/software is industry-wide - it's the only way the industry itself survives. Apple had to succumb to that trend in the development world to remain compatible and viable. Despite this, IMHO they've done a pretty damn good job and it's the best solution available today.

Also I have to be honest but I don't think Linux can ever get to the level of OSX, in terms of ease of use and availability of decent software. Ultimately it's even harder to use than Windows.. there are even more variables for the average musician-type user.

[dawman]

I need an opinion from guys here about Mac/Hackintosh.
My live rig is in no way going to change but I am dying to use Logic as I have seen it's incredible workflow and although it's still not rebuilt for 64bit, it is the most used app in Las Vegas/Reno/ Lake Tahoe. I actually could score many more gigs if I can do the Pre production work at home using Logic, than show up with raw files.
I need rack mounted gear though, bottom line is, I have to fly somewtimes and I really don't make much money when I record but I love working with these talented guys.
Can I make a Hackintosh/PC in a 2U where my XITE-1 drivers will work,and if so, could one of you guys Fede, BiFop, Darkrezin or anyone w/ experience give me a link that could get me started..?
I would be grateful.


Thanks In Advance.

[Bifop]

Sure Jimmy :
the bible : http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
the forum : http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/
database : http://www.insanelymac.com/osx86db/
and : http://www.ihackintosh.com/
plus : http://www.hackint0sh.org/f104/
and my machine how to (well, it didn't work for me I did a combo of three methods, but you'll get the point) :
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index. ... pic=185097
my first go, a patch distro : http://ihackintosh.org/ideneb
or this one : http://pcwizcomputer.com/ipcosx86/
and so on....

Just get the concept, I'm sure you'll know how to get going then....

As far as the 2U is concerned, I think if you can get an xite and an nvidia graphical card with card riser, you'll be allright. It depends on which motherboard/proco combo you choose to go with.
The right method is to check what's compatible with Hackintosh then see if it's known as compatible with xite too (on windows that is).

Peace Mr keys.

[dawman]

I have to say my Brotha' you are always nothing but positive contributions.
I well probably do this when time dictates, but I will be sure to let you know my failure/success's.

Merci Mon Frere,

[darkrezin]

Jimmy, easiest thing is to find an easy to follow tutorial on insanelymac forum (genius bar tutorials section). The good tutorials link to the required kext files (drivers) etc. You do need to know what you're doing and read up a bit (sorry I actually meant a lot). It can be really easy if you're lucky, but sometimes you will have to mess around a bit on the command line and read up on arcane forum threads - if you're not up for this, maybe just score a used macbook (black or white ones with firewire) - a Core2Duo Macbook is fine for a portable Logic recording/editing rig, although it won't run an Xite (no expresscard). Ethically you should really buy your copy of the OS. Logic works fine on every hack I've seen... it's not as fast as it used to be circa v5 but then what software is as slick/unbloated as its counterpart 8 years ago? It's still pretty easy to use and now has some features that I've been wanting for years (bounce in place). For the money it costs, and the fact that it doesn't have the hassle of a dongle anymore, it's hard to beat.

[valis]

The stability of your hackintosh will be entirely dependant on the hardware you're using (how closely it conforms to hardware Apple has used and built in support for, or how much effort you're willing to put forth making '3rd party' kext/drivers work.)

And there are no OSX Xite drivers yet are there?

[astroman]

aHem Astroman, unles I totally misunderstood the subject, I don't think things have changed to that extend. Dstd table, Efi partition or PcEfi and such are only to fake macintosh "Apple Efi". ...

you certainly didn't misunderstand a thing, you're simply in the wrong century
I was writing about the very original MacOS developed by Apple on 68k CPUs, way back in time, when there were cavemen... troglodytes...

Back then there was no such rubbish as a firmware whatsoever interface.
(a so called 'modern' firmware takes up as much memory as the complete original Mac had for all processing, including the OS)
The 68k code was so efficient, that it ran with almost no performance loss in emulation on PowerPC CPUs.
But that is past and the multi-billion-buck-coprorations will do a f*ck to ever get anywhere close to that state again.
Or can you imagine vampires on garlic diet ?

Apple did an incredible job to make Unix userfriendly.
Below the surface it's a mess compared to what they offered 20 years ago, but most people simply don't even know about that.

I would have appreciated if the so-called open source community had picked up (at least some of) Apple's orphaned concepts as documented in the 'Inside Macintosh' series, but instead they try to fake Windoze and recently OSX.
LOL - they can only fail, because they will always be one step behind.

Apple developed only a rough multimedia concept on their original machines (though Quicktime became the prototype of all codec handling anywhre), but then left over the music segment entirely to Digidesign.
When they eventually noticed a lack of knowledge, they simply bought EMagic and split Logic into Garageband and a Pro version.
Apple today isn't the corporation of the 80s anymore

cheers, Tom

[Bifop]

Ha, you talk about this antic mac Classic I was using for typing my Namm reports back in the early 90's ?
I was dreaming about buying a Mac LC to replace the Atari for midi sequencing.. A scanner was as expensive as a little car.

I don't know much about the original Apple machines and os appart from the fact they've gone from Nubus to PCI then PCIe only, from Motorola to IBM PPC to Intel Proco/mobo. But it's interesting what you're bringing here. You seem to imply they've lost their own concept on the way. Surely Astro.
But one thing that hasn't change is the hefty price tag and the advertisement campaigns (we're different, you're different, think different etc.... bs).

[astroman]

sure they lost their concept, well... actually they changed it quite deliberately...
it's hard to ignore facts represented by sales figures
as you mention the LC pizza box:

we used those for 5 to 6 years in a publishing company
then switched to PPC Cubes on duty for 3 years
then MacMini PPC for 2 years
MacMini Intel for 1 year
next year we'll go MacPro Quadcore...
(need I say more ?)

I'd still suggest a very close look into the original 68k MacOS (or rather it's documentation) for students going into OS design courses. It's a treasure chest of concepts - tho not à la mode with the big boys

cheers, Tom

[dawman]

Apple's mobo's look eerily like Supermicro or Tyan. So I will look again,and thanks for the insanely Mac site.
Everyone up here drops theirs off for trade when they buy new,and never seem tohave any problems. But I did see DDR3-1066 in a Dual i7 2.93..........not the very fastest now is it.
Funny, my DDR2-8oo still runs perfectly well. I am ready for 64but too. I have the latest Kontakt, and Bidule and both are stable on a PC Slave using Windoze 7.
No more VST FX, or GVI/Gigastudio stuff. Gigastudio's sound and 64 versus 512 settings is not that noticable but the round snooth low end and unbrittle highs are sorely missed already.

Cheers.