Well the actual wording in the article said something like "Think it through briefly, and Core i7’s move to the mobile market might not make too much sense - " and then the sentence he quotes finished that up. That was a reference to the well known thermal output / power draw of the i7 Bloomfield cpu's which are all rated at 130W TDP, and well covered by all tech sites for that. But that's only under max load and it's why turbo scales back as cores come online.
This mobile core is based off of Lynnfield which also just came out and has made headlines for cutting power usage and thermal output a LOT, even the top 860/870 are back down to being rated at 95W but under load most samples use a lot less than that (95W being the rated *upper cieling*). To get this even lower Clarksfield drops the Uncore speed down to 2.13Ghz like the i5 (lower end of Lynnfield) instead of 2.4Ghz, and uses lower overall clock speed as well to cut overall TDW to 45W.
What remains to be seen is how it performs for audio with all 4 cores loaded, but even the current dual core Core2 series notebooks (using the MOBILE version of the chip) are known for getting warm (typical versions are rated at 35W and under load tend to run very close to that) so if you're after performance then I foresee little difference there (could be wrong though...) Core2Quad in a laptop would be far worse imo...the Core2Quad mobile & Core2Extreme mobile chips are rated at 45W and run very close to that under load.
I'm sorely in need of a new laptop and Core2 is getting long in the tooth, but if Clarksfield doesn't pan out for me it's going to be a bit of a wait for the 32nm mobile chips...
notebook with highest CPU?
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
valis,
Here's the full quote:
Cheers,
Cory
Here's the full quote:
I get the sense that he's fully impressed. I hope to be too, I'm in need of a new laptop as well, and can't wait for the next gen.Think it through briefly, and Core i7’s move to the mobile market might not make too much sense - indeed, combine huge power draw with massive heat output and you’ve pretty much nailed the absolute worst combination for the slimline confines of a laptop chassis.
However, Core i7 is a better match than anyone might have imagined. Several of its key features even seem to make more sense in a laptop than they do in a desktop PC, with Turbo Boost in particular making the perfect mobile match.
Cheers,
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Yes I had read the article, but thanks for the full quote it's probably more clear than my extended blather for most. Self-edit? Never!
I did also get the impression from him and a few 'sneak peak' posts elsewhere that this was going to be a good mobile chipset, hence my keeping an eye for Lynnfield/Clarksfield elsewhere in these forums. One thing you'll notice he stresses there is that the TURBO scaling works very well for the way typical users work, 1 task typically needing priority for you to work or enjoy video and the rest getting out of the way a bit as it would be underutilized at full speed anyway.
So that makes me curious about how the 45W TDP envelope affects the scaling of those cores from 1 in turbo to all 4 going in lower speeds (coming out of turbo progressively as cores come online) -- specifically with modern Audio applications. After that it's just a question of what issues the chipsets might have (hopefully none major) and what boneheaded configurations different makers come up with (and avoiding those).
On the last note I'm eyeballing a Macbook Pro because I'm silly enough to remain tethered to Logic, and want something that can double up for Live use. for Ableton Live alone I would certainly get off much cheaper elsewhere and I'd be sure to have the expresscard slot that I'm hoping Apple brings back for the smaller than 17" models...
I did also get the impression from him and a few 'sneak peak' posts elsewhere that this was going to be a good mobile chipset, hence my keeping an eye for Lynnfield/Clarksfield elsewhere in these forums. One thing you'll notice he stresses there is that the TURBO scaling works very well for the way typical users work, 1 task typically needing priority for you to work or enjoy video and the rest getting out of the way a bit as it would be underutilized at full speed anyway.
So that makes me curious about how the 45W TDP envelope affects the scaling of those cores from 1 in turbo to all 4 going in lower speeds (coming out of turbo progressively as cores come online) -- specifically with modern Audio applications. After that it's just a question of what issues the chipsets might have (hopefully none major) and what boneheaded configurations different makers come up with (and avoiding those).
On the last note I'm eyeballing a Macbook Pro because I'm silly enough to remain tethered to Logic, and want something that can double up for Live use. for Ableton Live alone I would certainly get off much cheaper elsewhere and I'd be sure to have the expresscard slot that I'm hoping Apple brings back for the smaller than 17" models...
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Yes I understood your sentiments fine 
However I know quite a few people using Core2 era laptops fine as well, and speedstepping is largely dependant on driver & vendor support (as you've said.) I'm not in such a hurry that I'll be buying something hot off of the line, wiating for a product to mature is where I am usually at (December/January was my expectation.) Thanks for your input nonetheless!
However I know quite a few people using Core2 era laptops fine as well, and speedstepping is largely dependant on driver & vendor support (as you've said.) I'm not in such a hurry that I'll be buying something hot off of the line, wiating for a product to mature is where I am usually at (December/January was my expectation.) Thanks for your input nonetheless!
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Sorry Valis, the quote was more for stardust than you, that wasn't clear from my post. I understood that you were reading the reviewer's surprise correctly.
stardust, I provided the rest of the quote because you missed his point. He is saying that, if you don't think it through, this would seem to be total overkill, but in fact it works surprisingly well, and beyond his expectations. Your quote did not provide the context of his statement.
This is not SpeedStep, but several generations past. And using Dell as a reference is a pretty small statistical sample, especially since they aren't really known for their R&D efforts and rock-solid implementation. They make boxes for the masses. Their boxes work pretty well for the masses. We by definition are not "the masses" given our usage requirements.
There are two excellent reasons why someone would consider a laptop over a desktop (which would have the same or greater TDP, btw, just better spacing and heat evacuation): footprint (as in Ken's case) and portability (a heavy laptop is still much more portable than a desktop). No problem that those aren't important considerations for you, they are for many other users.
Suggesting that there is only 2 hours of battery life for these is a false argument. For the vast majority of the computing tasks, the battery life is much longer. I really don't know anybody who would try to run a DAW laptop without a power cable even if they could (PZers, are you out there? JimmyV our live-performing guru?), and if they had to in an emergency, two hours sounds like a pretty long set to me!
But Valis is right: for our specific, niche usage model, we won't know until it has been tested with audio applications. There is still a huge gap in s/w fully using h/w capabilities for most audio apps. I'm hoping that it will work well! But I won't be terribly surprised if there are some minor challenges in creating a full-blown DAW laptop that can run 12 VSTis and simultaneously lay down 16 tracks without a glitch. In a couple of years, the same struggling laptop may be fine as software catches up.
Braincell makes a good point about creating a more portable desktop for Ken's specific needs, but it won't provide the same footprint or flexibility. A destop might work well (and be cheaper) in that situation if Ken decides he doesn't care about the workflow that he is currently using.
Cory
stardust, I provided the rest of the quote because you missed his point. He is saying that, if you don't think it through, this would seem to be total overkill, but in fact it works surprisingly well, and beyond his expectations. Your quote did not provide the context of his statement.
This is not SpeedStep, but several generations past. And using Dell as a reference is a pretty small statistical sample, especially since they aren't really known for their R&D efforts and rock-solid implementation. They make boxes for the masses. Their boxes work pretty well for the masses. We by definition are not "the masses" given our usage requirements.
There are two excellent reasons why someone would consider a laptop over a desktop (which would have the same or greater TDP, btw, just better spacing and heat evacuation): footprint (as in Ken's case) and portability (a heavy laptop is still much more portable than a desktop). No problem that those aren't important considerations for you, they are for many other users.
Suggesting that there is only 2 hours of battery life for these is a false argument. For the vast majority of the computing tasks, the battery life is much longer. I really don't know anybody who would try to run a DAW laptop without a power cable even if they could (PZers, are you out there? JimmyV our live-performing guru?), and if they had to in an emergency, two hours sounds like a pretty long set to me!
But Valis is right: for our specific, niche usage model, we won't know until it has been tested with audio applications. There is still a huge gap in s/w fully using h/w capabilities for most audio apps. I'm hoping that it will work well! But I won't be terribly surprised if there are some minor challenges in creating a full-blown DAW laptop that can run 12 VSTis and simultaneously lay down 16 tracks without a glitch. In a couple of years, the same struggling laptop may be fine as software catches up.
Braincell makes a good point about creating a more portable desktop for Ken's specific needs, but it won't provide the same footprint or flexibility. A destop might work well (and be cheaper) in that situation if Ken decides he doesn't care about the workflow that he is currently using.
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Battery life on the Mac is 8 hours these days.
I would use batteries on the flights where it usually would last a cross country trip.
Laptops were made that, besides when not connected I have witnessed flucuations in current draw which is totally unacceptable.
I use to program a battery operated sequencer with the AMW synth set on the plane and had tons of fun. Reading is boring after doing something like that.
Using a notebook can be done. I had a Lenovo over the Christmas Holidays last year and it worked so well I sold it to the Bassist.
We were using 34mm connectors for external 2.5" Raptors, while the O.S. + Apps drive was an Intel X25 that never was a problem.
I think the HDD's would be the biggest source of trouble.
Streaming HDD's w/ Kontakt or GVI is a serious workout and the heat would be a problem IMHO. CPU would be the last thing to worry about, unless you are using an Prescott of yore.
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
I think you accidentally spelled "Apple says Battery life on the Mac is 8 hours these days" as "Battery life on the Mac is 8 hours these days"
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
No offense taken stardust, you were just posting an out-of-context quote and I was providing the context. The reviewer actually pointed to his impression that this set up actually accomplishes the "compromise" successfully, and that it is overcoming the heat/power limitations of a laptop. He's not doing audio, so you and I can only extrapolate to our usage based on this. I'm optimistic, you're convinced it's unfeasible. I'll change my opinion if proven wrong with data.
You can afford multiple desktops and a laptop or disk set up to move data between places, which is awesome. Some need to be more stream-lined, whether for ease or economics.
Regarding the footprint, the type of laptop we are discussing doesn't require all of the add-ins you reference, aside from the mouse. They are built-in. A high-capacity battery is internal, although that may be why you would feel you need an external DVD as opposed to the internal one. Docking stations don't double a footprint. Also, in a DAW scenario, I'm still unclear why you feel you wouldn't plug it in, especially since all of the other DAW-related peripherals (midi controllers, pre-amps, amps, etc.) will need power, but I'd prefer to let that pass. I will point out that KenSuguro found the small footprint useful in his initial post.
Any laptop is going to require some attention to power, but your list of battery life is highly debatable, since you clearly don't own one from this generation and can't speak from experience. Listening to MP3 and browsing are not intensive applications, and won't require Turbo mode to engage, which is the huge power draw that you fear. Running a synth *might*, we don't know yet. I suspect it will still net you well-over 3 hours. That's a pretty good stretch of creativity in those rare occasions when I can't actually plug the thing in.
Regarding mobility, I have clearly acknowledged that there are a variety of options. You cannot tell me that 8 pounds of power-user laptop isn't easier to mobilize than 20 pounds of mini desktop with monitor, keys, and mouse which cannot under any circumstances run without wall power. You won't be using that set up for anything on your bus-ride to the next studio. You sure could with the laptop though.
I'm pretty sure JV would love to have a laptop set up to replace his 4U box. To his credit he's open-minded enough to keep evaluating.
My apologies to you stardust, I have clearly touched a sore spot for you. You are of course more than right for your usage needs, and I would be wrong to tell you that my opinions are better for you. I didn't intend to do so, I just wanted other readers to have proper information in order to make a choice that fits *their* needs, which are almost certainly different from mine and yours.
In all respects, anyone who can wait, *should* wait another generation for 32nm processors, with the corresponding electrical power reductions and processing power increases. If one can't wait, there are some choices that must be made. Hopefully they will find some use in our opposing opinions to make those choices.
Cheers and may the last word be yours,
Cory
You can afford multiple desktops and a laptop or disk set up to move data between places, which is awesome. Some need to be more stream-lined, whether for ease or economics.
Regarding the footprint, the type of laptop we are discussing doesn't require all of the add-ins you reference, aside from the mouse. They are built-in. A high-capacity battery is internal, although that may be why you would feel you need an external DVD as opposed to the internal one. Docking stations don't double a footprint. Also, in a DAW scenario, I'm still unclear why you feel you wouldn't plug it in, especially since all of the other DAW-related peripherals (midi controllers, pre-amps, amps, etc.) will need power, but I'd prefer to let that pass. I will point out that KenSuguro found the small footprint useful in his initial post.
Any laptop is going to require some attention to power, but your list of battery life is highly debatable, since you clearly don't own one from this generation and can't speak from experience. Listening to MP3 and browsing are not intensive applications, and won't require Turbo mode to engage, which is the huge power draw that you fear. Running a synth *might*, we don't know yet. I suspect it will still net you well-over 3 hours. That's a pretty good stretch of creativity in those rare occasions when I can't actually plug the thing in.
Regarding mobility, I have clearly acknowledged that there are a variety of options. You cannot tell me that 8 pounds of power-user laptop isn't easier to mobilize than 20 pounds of mini desktop with monitor, keys, and mouse which cannot under any circumstances run without wall power. You won't be using that set up for anything on your bus-ride to the next studio. You sure could with the laptop though.
I'm pretty sure JV would love to have a laptop set up to replace his 4U box. To his credit he's open-minded enough to keep evaluating.
My apologies to you stardust, I have clearly touched a sore spot for you. You are of course more than right for your usage needs, and I would be wrong to tell you that my opinions are better for you. I didn't intend to do so, I just wanted other readers to have proper information in order to make a choice that fits *their* needs, which are almost certainly different from mine and yours.
In all respects, anyone who can wait, *should* wait another generation for 32nm processors, with the corresponding electrical power reductions and processing power increases. If one can't wait, there are some choices that must be made. Hopefully they will find some use in our opposing opinions to make those choices.
Cheers and may the last word be yours,
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Well I'm interested nonetheless. It's always wise to buy into something that actually is attainable, and if you can't afford the time & energy to troublshoot & help today's companies "beta test" hardware & software then getting known-good is doubly smart. Given the choice between a Core2 laptop now and some future 'great' choice, recommending Core2 (and duo for its heat/power efficiencies to boot) isn't a bad thing at all. Falls perfectly in line with ken's original question.
So I'm certainly not recommending anyone else wait, however I am interested in waiting. Either Clarksfield or 32nm as cortone suggests, are where I'm buying in so I'm interested in the discussion and watching the platform evolve. Nothing is stopping me from buying a Core2 from 2008 either, and I'm plenty served on the desktop front as well. Also I use laptops for Dj'ing (and have for YEARS now) and need some power to do more beyond that in a live context myself. Being able to surf the web & do other things for a few hours without sitting at my desktop is just bonus for me...
So I'm certainly not recommending anyone else wait, however I am interested in waiting. Either Clarksfield or 32nm as cortone suggests, are where I'm buying in so I'm interested in the discussion and watching the platform evolve. Nothing is stopping me from buying a Core2 from 2008 either, and I'm plenty served on the desktop front as well. Also I use laptops for Dj'ing (and have for YEARS now) and need some power to do more beyond that in a live context myself. Being able to surf the web & do other things for a few hours without sitting at my desktop is just bonus for me...
-
next to nothing
- Posts: 2521
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Bergen, Norway
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Reading how you misliked your 17", i'll do an all in and tell you some POSITIVE sides of an 18,4" laptop (ok, its not a notebook).
I have a Fujitsu siemens xi 3650 with 2x320GB harddrives in RAID 0, a T9400 dual core cpu at 2.53mhz and 4 gigs of DDR3 1066mhz RAM.
This thing is mostly used as a 3D modeling machine, as it is way faster than my E6600 setup that i use for a daw. I suspect that the T9400s 6MB cache is responsible for that. Wprks flawless both under win vista 32bit and win7 64 bit.
OK, its not a pocket calculator. its close to 4 kilos, and battery will last for around one hour for proper use. but the screen is 16x9, not 16x10 which most "older" models are, which cuts height. and it also does 1920 x 1080 resolution which brings a large screenspace available to you.
I have 3 laptops at the moment, only 2 in use. i use this one for longer trips where i am away for several days and "needs" to do actual work (and watch movies on a proper screen
) and i have a netbook for my occasional websurf etc. that i use on shorter trips where i dont miss Ableton Live that much.
If this is interesting to you, i could do some Audio Benchmark for you, just tell me what you need running and i'll set it up.
PS: i see the current version (xi3670) is shipped with a quad core T9000 6MB cpu, at 2ghz. Storage is now 2x500GB harddrives at RAID 0.
PSS: the build quality isnt particulary good on my model, allthough it has restrained quite some heavy throwing around, the outer shell seems kind of flimsy. Understandable dor such a large surface area, not "worse" than others, but i wouldnt bring it to an army operation in the mountains.
I have a Fujitsu siemens xi 3650 with 2x320GB harddrives in RAID 0, a T9400 dual core cpu at 2.53mhz and 4 gigs of DDR3 1066mhz RAM.
This thing is mostly used as a 3D modeling machine, as it is way faster than my E6600 setup that i use for a daw. I suspect that the T9400s 6MB cache is responsible for that. Wprks flawless both under win vista 32bit and win7 64 bit.
OK, its not a pocket calculator. its close to 4 kilos, and battery will last for around one hour for proper use. but the screen is 16x9, not 16x10 which most "older" models are, which cuts height. and it also does 1920 x 1080 resolution which brings a large screenspace available to you.
I have 3 laptops at the moment, only 2 in use. i use this one for longer trips where i am away for several days and "needs" to do actual work (and watch movies on a proper screen
) and i have a netbook for my occasional websurf etc. that i use on shorter trips where i dont miss Ableton Live that much. If this is interesting to you, i could do some Audio Benchmark for you, just tell me what you need running and i'll set it up.
PS: i see the current version (xi3670) is shipped with a quad core T9000 6MB cpu, at 2ghz. Storage is now 2x500GB harddrives at RAID 0.
PSS: the build quality isnt particulary good on my model, allthough it has restrained quite some heavy throwing around, the outer shell seems kind of flimsy. Understandable dor such a large surface area, not "worse" than others, but i wouldnt bring it to an army operation in the mountains.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Now that's what I'm talking about NTN! Thanks for chiming in with a very useful point of view from an actual user...
Cheers,
Cory
Cheers,
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
stardust,
And yet you know, without ever touching one, that the newest generation won't be better! Even given a reviewer's claims that it far-surpassed his expectations.
I bow down to your superior knowledge, presentation, and prescience.
Oh wait, NTN also presented what you did not!
I still bow down...
Praise, praise, praise,
Cory
And yet you know, without ever touching one, that the newest generation won't be better! Even given a reviewer's claims that it far-surpassed his expectations.
I bow down to your superior knowledge, presentation, and prescience.
Oh wait, NTN also presented what you did not!
I still bow down...
Praise, praise, praise,
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Kettle, pot. Pot, kettle.
Talk amongst yourself...
Cheers,
Cory
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
Well to be fair I don't think anyone has disagreed that your recommendation is more suitable for ken's specific question. At the same time, this being in OT, we've diverged into our own particular interests as well.
-
netguyjoel
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:34 am
- Location: The Land of Cheese, Beer & Fat Chicks
Re: notebook with highest CPU?
I agree..but S|C has to release a PCI interface to work w/Scope on a laptop first...yes...no???
best wishes...
best wishes...
Joel