Buy 6dsp or 15 dsp withou plugins.

[lagoausente]

I don´t understand what relation have the production of the chips itself. The thing is that if there is avaible a new one 10x more powerfull, will have no much sense use the old one, even it´s avaible. I don´t they continue with production of old pci cards, if they are now. I even suspect that actual pci new cards are stock from past production.

[interloper]

Well, products usually can get phased out if the is no longer any stock of the existing materials.

I think that before any new PCI cards will be released to the market the old versions will have to be sold out first. That may take a while.

[HUROLURA]

Ok guys, here my own comment on your price tag discussion:

- the number of DSP is NOT the only price criteria
=> the standard plug-in bundle is not the same with the LUNA/HOME, PulsarII/Project or the Pro board
=> the scope software version activated on the board (3.1 or earlier, 4.0 or 4.5 giving you free access to 5.0)
=> the pro board has one main advantage toward the others, as it give you access to the SDK after signing the NDA
=> as you can "only" use 3 boards in one host, the 14 DSP board are the most valuable if you intend to get the most powerfull system (the theoritical maximum system would be a 42/45 DSP system but I read somewhere that the gain between 2x14DSP+1x6DSP and 3x14DSP was not that significant. The optimum Scope PCI system would then be a 2 Pro + 1 Project)
- my recent stat check (mid 2007 untill end of 2008) on ebay for creamware boards give me
=> an average price of 40 €/DSP (all type of boards included)
=> a minimum price of 11 €/DSP (an extreme bargain price for a 19 DSP sale limitated in term of shipping) in sept 2008
=> a maximum price of 94 €/DSP in march 2007 but this particular one was including the RESTORE suite
- focusing on the last 3 month:
=> the 3 DSP boards were most sold at a price from 58€ to 100€ with one noticeable exception for a LUNA board sold 270 € but this one was bundled with the ADAT/Z-Link expansion board
=> the 4 DSP boards were sold between 100 and 140 €, their main advantage towards the LUNA/Home being to provide the ADAT connectors without the need for an extra and rarely sold ADAT expansion board (this is also true for more DSP powerfull PulsarII/Project or Pro boards)
=> the 6 DSP boards were sold between 150 to 220 € for DSP booster/XTC without I/O and 250 to 400 € for a PulsarII/Project boards depending on the plug-in bundle provided and scope software version
=> the rarely sold 14/15 Pro Cards were sold from 650 to 750 €

All these data to explain that the LUNA/Home cannot be used as a reference for other card pricing (because of plug-in provided, scope version, built in ADAT interface for non LUNA/Home board and SDK access for Pro board). Moreover, the 14/15DSP being the most powerfull PCI boards, they would probably maintain to relatively higher price.

Still, all this show the Xite-1 to provide a bargain €/DSP price with a much more futureproof solution as PCI port tend to disappear from PC and are even not available anymore from MAC.

My 2 cents to your discussion

CheerZ

[interloper]

I agree, output type and board type play an important factor in determining a second hand value/price.

[lagoausente]

Ok guys, here my own comment on your price tag discussion:

- the number of DSP is NOT the only price criteria
=> the standard plug-in bundle is not the same with the LUNA/HOME, PulsarII/Project or the Pro board
=> the scope software version activated on the board (3.1 or earlier, 4.0 or 4.5 giving you free access to 5.0)
=> the pro board has one main advantage toward the others, as it give you access to the SDK after signing the NDA
=> as you can "only" use 3 boards in one host, the 14 DSP board are the most valuable if you intend to get the most powerfull system (the theoritical maximum system would be a 42/45 DSP system but I read somewhere that the gain between 2x14DSP+1x6DSP and 3x14DSP was not that significant. The optimum Scope PCI system would then be a 2 Pro + 1 Project)
- my recent stat check (mid 2007 untill end of 2008) on ebay for creamware boards give me
=> an average price of 40 €/DSP (all type of boards included)
=> a minimum price of 11 €/DSP (an extreme bargain price for a 19 DSP sale limitated in term of shipping) in sept 2008
=> a maximum price of 94 €/DSP in march 2007 but this particular one was including the RESTORE suite
- focusing on the last 3 month:
=> the 3 DSP boards were most sold at a price from 58€ to 100€ with one noticeable exception for a LUNA board sold 270 € but this one was bundled with the ADAT/Z-Link expansion board
=> the 4 DSP boards were sold between 100 and 140 €, their main advantage towards the LUNA/Home being to provide the ADAT connectors without the need for an extra and rarely sold ADAT expansion board (this is also true for more DSP powerfull PulsarII/Project or Pro boards)
=> the 6 DSP boards were sold between 150 to 220 € for DSP booster/XTC without I/O and 250 to 400 € for a PulsarII/Project boards depending on the plug-in bundle provided and scope software version
=> the rarely sold 14/15 Pro Cards were sold from 650 to 750 €

All these data to explain that the LUNA/Home cannot be used as a reference for other card pricing (because of plug-in provided, scope version, built in ADAT interface for non LUNA/Home board and SDK access for Pro board). Moreover, the 14/15DSP being the most powerfull PCI boards, they would probably maintain to relatively higher price.

Still, all this show the Xite-1 to provide a bargain €/DSP price with a much more futureproof solution as PCI port tend to disappear from PC and are even not available anymore from MAC.

My 2 cents to your discussion

CheerZ

You have reason. Considering all your arguments, I should consider a little overpriced the 6dsp card in relation with the 3 dsp and 15 dsp.
Another thing still to know, is what sofware will come with Xite.

[Tau]

No mistery there... From S|C's site:

In SCOPE XITE-1 included software and plug-ins:

* Configuration software (v5)

SONIC CORE DSP Plug-Ins:

* Mixing: STM2448, STM4896, STM 48 S, STM 1632, STM 16 S, Dynamic Mixer, Micromixer, Channel, Meterbridge, ControlRoom
* Reverb: MasterVerb Pro, MasterVerb, MasterVerb Classic, Early Reflector
* Dynamics: Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander
* Filter: GraphEQ, Parametric EQ, 4-Pole Filter, High Cut Filter, Low Cut Filter, DC Filter, MIDIPole Filter
* Chorus: Chorus, 4-Tap Chorus, Harmonic Chorus, Hexa Chorus, Master Chorus
* Flanger: Flanger, Harmonic Flanger, Master Flanger, Space Flanger, Random Flanger, Step Flanger
* Phaser: Phaser, SSB Phaser, SSB Modulator, SSB Mod Delay
* Delay: Delay, Ducking Delay, Pattern Delay, Multi Tap Delay, Delay LCR, Delay Long, Dual Delay Long
* Mastering: Dither Shaper, Stereo Expander, Softclip, Spectral Balance Control
* Distortion: Distortion, Overdrive, Tube Drive, TQ Drive, Resonator
* Modulation: AutoPan, AutoWah, Tremolo, MIDI Tremolo
* Tools: AuxRack, MultiFX, Deesser, Ducker
* SpecialFX: Vocoder III, Ringmodulator, Pitchshifter
* Synthesizer: SB404, Poison, EDS 16i, EDS 8i, BlueSynth, EZSynth, miniscope, U KNOW 007, Vectron Player, Inferno, Lightwave, Prisma, Arpeg01
* Sampler: STS-2000P, STS-3000, STS-4000
* Mix'n'Master Pack 2: Optimaster, PSY Q, Vinco, Interpole, VDAT, Vocodizer
* Synth'n'Sampler Pack 2: Minimax, Profit 5, B2003, Modular III, Vectron, STS-5000


T

[HUROLURA]

In fact, the same software bundle as with the Scope Pro ... but with EXTRA power and mobility.

CheerZ

[interloper]

I think if you guys like Xite-1 so much you should go ahead and buy it.

[lagoausente]

I think if you guys like Xite-1 so much you should go ahead and buy it.

From now.., wait

[interloper]

I look forward to your feedback.

[HUROLURA]

I split my bundle into hardware and software because I can appeal to a larger market demographic. Some people already have all the plugs so they won't want to bid on the HW & SW bundle.

It looks like your strategy was much successfull:
- you reach 770 € for your scope Pro Board
- your plug-in bundle reach 375 € (not that successfull though, it is still a bargain price regarding the bunch of plug you included ...)
But I would not have expected you to get more for the the complete set of Pro board + plug.
So your marketing strategy was the best...

CheerZ

[interloper]

Thanks mate, I was more concerned with the board to be honest, as the plugins are an investment, yes, but when you liquidate your setup it's hard to recover what you spent on software. Then also your auction is dependent on who is in the market at the time and bidding on it.

From all the other gear I sold, the Eventide and the Distressor, the hardware generates the most cash.

[HUROLURA]

You always get more from hardware than from software. In many case, as soon as a new version is available, the version you have is just worth half the price you pay for it and if a third version is release you do not get anything for it.

Then on the hardware size it still depends:
- hardware sequencer/player, sampler, rompler just get their value decrease really quick (on the rompler size this is just as with software: as soon as a new version is available, yours is not worth anything, hardware seq and sampler have just been replaced by their software counterparts)
- analog synth or effect tends to stabilize or become some collectors
- virtual analog synth seem to behave the same.

But the CW plug-in cannot be seen the same way in my opinion as much of them do not even have a second version (with the exception of John Bowen plug-ins and flexor). Still the Pro board is the entry key to get access to SDK and a good mean to have a solution while waiting for the Xite-1 release.

Regarding the scope board, the fact the PCI slot are now disappearing from the PC/Mac is the only threat for their value ...

By the way, what type of setup are you planning now Interloper: pure native ? Protools ? UAD ? Ocarina ?

CheerZ

[interloper]

Totally agree.

Now I am looking at using the following: Ableton Live, Virus TI, Solaris, Novation Remote SL, Xone 3D, API2500 and a lot of native plugins.

[HUROLURA]

OK, you ordered one of the SOLARIS... So you will still be there.

CheerZ

[interloper]

Yes, it's not easy to give it all up, but with John's Solaris I think a lot of possibilities will present themselves. John is a great guy too, so supporting his work is twice as rewarding.