Seagate mess affects ES.2, 7200.11 & DiamondMax 22 Drives

[valis]

Seagate's official info:
Firmware Recommendations for Barracuda 7200.11, ES.2 SATA, and DiamondMax 22 Drives

Firmware Update for ST3500320AS, ST3500620AS, ST3500820AS, ST3640330AS, ST3640530AS, ST3750330AS, ST3750630AS, ST31000340AS

Firmware Update for ST31500341AS, ST31000333AS, ST3640323AS, ST3640623AS, ST3320613AS, ST3320813AS, ST3160813AS

Firmware Update for STM3500320AS, STM3750330AS, STM31000340AS

Firmware Update for STM31000334AS, STM3640323AS, STM3320614AS, STM3160813AS

Firmware Update for ST3250310NS, ST3500320NS, ST3750330NS, ST31000340NS

For all other firmware questions, please see here - Does my drive need a firmware update?

-----------------------------

Older links....


Seagate forum thread (noisey with consumers):
http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/mes ... ad.id=4771

Ars Journal post:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/hardwar ... ard-drives
(ignore the second seagate link on that page, it's older)

/.'s more lengthy thread & parent post:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ... 17/0115207

[valis]

ES.2 users: SN06 Firmware Update for ST3250310NS, ST3500320NS, ST3750330NS, ST31000340NS is out, email for support from the link on that page if you think you might be affected.


7200.11 users, both firmware revisions are 'still in validation:

ST3500320AS, ST3640330AS, ST3750330AS & ST31000340AS

ST31500341AS, ST31000333AS, ST3640323AS, ST3640623AS, ST3320613AS, ST3320813AS, ST3160813AS

[valis]

Current issue (not to be mistaken with the 0k cache issue) cause is rumored to be:

Root Cause

This condition is caused by a firmware bug that allows the drive's 'event log' pointer to be set to an invalid
location. This condition is detected by the drive during power up, and the drive goes in to failsafe mode to
prevent inadvertent corruption to or loss of user data. As a result, once the failure has occurred user data
becomes inaccessible.

During power up, if the Event Log counter is at entry 320, or a multiple of (320 + x*256), and if a particular
data fill pattern (dependent on the type of tester used during the drive manufacturing test process) had
been present in the reserved-area system tracks when the drive's reserved-area file system was created
during manufacturing (note this is not the Operating System's file system, but is instead an area reserved
outside the drive's logical block address space that is used for drive operating data structures and
storage), firmware will incorrectly allow the Event Log pointer to increment past the end of the Event Log
data structure. This error is detected and results in an "Assert Failure", which causes the drive to hang as
a failsafe measure. When the drive enters failsafe further updates to the counter become impossible and
the condition will persist through all subsequent power cycles.

The problem can only occur if a power cycle initialization occurs when the Event Log is at 320 or some
multiple of 256 thereafter. Once a drive is in this state, an end user will not be able to resolve/recover
existing failed drives. Recovery of failed drive requires Seagate technical intervention. However, the
problem can be prevented by updating drive firmware to a newer version and/or by keeping the drive
powered on until a newer firmware version is available.

Note that in order for a drive to be susceptible to this issue, it must have both the firmware revision that
contains the issue, have been tested through the specific manufacturing process, and be power cycled.

Corrective Action
Seagate has implemented a containment action in to ensure that all manufacturing test processes write a
"benign" data fill pattern that does not trigger the error condition. This change is already a permanent part
of the test process. All drives with a date of manufacture January 12, 2009 and later are not affected by
this issue as they have been manufactured with this corrected test process. In addition, Seagate is
releasing updated firmware that will make a drive immune to this failure regardless of the date of
manufacture.

[Neutron]

ok thanks for that information. thatre is another confusing matter.

there was also a recent fix for those drives where (for instance)SD14 firmware was replaced with AD14 to allow the correct cache size to be reported. is this other (russian reboot roulette) problem also fixed with that firmware as well or should it be updated again?

i have 2 3500320's and an ES.2 waiting to see how it goes for others before i screw up my machines.

[Throttler]

I have 6 (six) ST3500320AS SD15.... if anything happens, I'll jump from my roof...

[Neutron]

I have 6 (six) ST3500320AS SD15.... if anything happens, I'll jump from my roof...

well you have 2x the chance that i do. every time you turn those systems on you have a 1 in 60 chance of one drive dieing.

time to do some backup, and dont turn them off unless you really have to!

btw the firmware is back online.

[valis]

Above my 3rd post I hid the line that said this was a NEW firmware issue, not related to the 0k cache issue. Sorry for the inundation of information.

I'm sitting on 3x 500GB ES.2's here, waiting for support to get around to emailing me SN06C firmware for them (B is for 750GB/1GB, not sure what firmware goes for the ES.2 1.5TB). I've had great luck with Seagate SCSI & IDE/SATA drives for years, this seems to be a bad year for their QA staff, not terribly happy about the possibility of losing a drive on a reboot (though I rarely do that). I ordered a 1TB "Green" WD drive for data storage so I can dump Acronis images to it of each drive, we'll see if I'm able to get the the drive or the firmware update from seagate first (zipzoomfly didn't have the drive in stock for 2 days!) I'll probably wait to flash the drives before I get the WD anyway, just to make sure.

[valis]

There are different SN06 revisions for different sizes. It seems that 500GB requires SN06C, 750 & 1TB SN06B, not sure about the rest.

I've been unable to get any email updates (started subscribing sunday or monday on their knowledge base links AND have emailed their tech support links several times). Tried to get someone to help me via live chat a few times and I have a feeling they're so swamped that they have non-tech staff helping respond to chat & email. Both times I had the person on the chat line link me to a 'downloadable file' that was C:\DOCUME~1\blablabla, and they didnt' understand why I couldn't download it :rolleyes:

Also they seem to be backing down on providing firmware for the ES.2's for now:

Me: hello
Me: I have several ES.2 drives I would like to update
Me: all are ST3500320NS
Me: purchased the same time
Me: serial for one is ********
TechAgent: I do apologize but we do not support firmware over this chat. Please refer to the following tech article for further assistance, you will need to use the email link to request firmware. http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/s ... cId=207951
Me: Two days ago I was going to be given firmware via chat but the person linked me to an improper link (non-working http link)
Me: the same thing yesterday (C:\DOCUME~1\bla bla is NOT a web link)
Me: Could you please clarify & provide a link
TechAgent: Im sorry we do nto provide firmware via this chat
TechAgent: IF someoen did provide it they did so out of policy
Me: they never actually provided a working link
TechAgent: I can submit the information to my Team lead who will review and email you with the appropriate information
Me: After the person failed yesterday I was told it would be emailed as well
Me: and I've emailed the support emails and subscribed to the knowledge base articles
Me: I assume you don't have any word on when ES.2 customers will receive their notifications?
TechAgent: I will be glad to submit the information but i cannot provide firmware over this chat
TechAgent: I do not have access to it
Me: Do you have any word on when ES.2 customers will receive their notifications?
TechAgent: No i do not I certianly apologize
Me: Are you able to tell me if firmware SN06 is available?
TechAgent: but i will be glad to help were i can and the ebst thing i can do is get all the serial nubmers involved and your email and submit the request to my lead
TechAgent: No i cannot
TechAgent: Our leads address all firmware issues
Me: let me collect some serials from one of the machines, hang on
TechAgent: be glad too wait
Me: all drives are ST3500320NS, revision SN04
Me: serials for this machine are: ********, ********, ********
Me: email is broadstreetstudios@gmail.com
TechAgent: i cannot promise you will have the firmware soon
Me: thank you for your time
Me: just pass it along
TechAgent: but for any firmware i need every single serial number
Me: I already gave you the serials,
Me: send me the firmware for those drives please
TechAgent: I can submit the information to my Team lead
TechAgent: would be glad too
Me: thank you & good luck
Your session has ended. You may now close this window.

Probably understandable given the problems they had with the 7200.11 updates, but reports are that SN04 & SN05 ES.2's seem to be updating to SN06 fine (reports from their forums & others).


I've had good experiences with Seagate for years, which makes this really unfortunate. I used to only use Seagate for SCSI & 'important' IDE storage duties (post-deathstar), always using cheaper drives from other makers for the lesser important machines I maintain. First I had bad experiences with Maxtor about 8 years ago (especially when it came to trying to RMA things), and then switched to WD for a while and had issues there 6 years ago, now it seems it's seagates turn. It seems like very poor QA from Seagate over the past year along with some boneheaded decisions from middle management are going to hurt them, as this is the 3rd well known issue to occur in the last 6-9 months (and this particular issue seems to date back that far as well).

[Neutron]

I emailed them about my ES.2 and got a reply acknowledging they had got it at least.
you MUST put "ES.2" in the subject line or the email will be ignored in the order it is received.

i did the firmware on one of my 7200.11 and everything went very smoothly
the serial number checker says my other 7200.11 was not affected.

and like a great big sucker im going to go and buy a 7200.12 (5 year warranty version) tomorrow

[valis]

Well I bought a WD 1GB "Caviar Green" consumer drive in case I had issues and despite reports to the contrary, it runs warmer than the Seagate drives and has this nasty high pitch whine I've not heard since I moved my 15k scsi drives into the closet (it's only 7200rpm). Running HD Tune on it shows its performance under AHCI+ncq is somewhat erratic, it is nowhere near consistant in its performance (85-97.9MB/sec at the start of the drive descending down to 55-60MB/sec towards the end of the drive at the 80% point). Real-world access time is 14ms measured as an average across the drive.

My ES.2's Show a completely solid line starting at 109.8MB/sec descending down to about 75MB/sec at the 80% point. Very few 'ripples' in the performance and they only indicate where sectoring jumps as the test moves inward. I've seen similar numbers for the 1TB ES.2's, these are the 500GB variants. Access time averages out to 12ms and the buffer operation is clearly smooth in its handshaking with the AHCI controller.

It seems to me that the current Seagate issue is a problem with middle management's dealing with what are obviously longstanding (6-9 month) QA & Support issues. QA failed repeatedly to find & fix issues, and support seems to have been burying these problems for months, until the drives that they're claiming are specifically made in December showed complete failures in their firmware (the 390 value bug or w/e it is). However I've read around enough that it seems this goes back to about March/April if not before, and they've been culling complaints from their forums for months on end, other hardware forums reveal the users who have left their 7200.10's & .11's behind.

There have also been some issues with various SATA & SAS RAID controllers, various firmware bugs such as the TLER response issue that causes drives to drop off arrays (which was mitigated by having the drive respond faster and queue the remapping of bad blocks until idle, but not actually fixed). There are other issues than just this one, this was just the last issue to get coverage across the net.

Looking at WD, Samsung & Hitachi, they actually have their share of issues too until you move up to real SAS drives, or in the case of WD the Raptor/Velociraptor drives. So the issues that Seagate has had aren't abnormal, it's just that their misandling of them has escalated and seems to have caused a final collapse in their support systems last week.

Seagate's ES.2's are exactly the same hardware as 7200.11 (and now 7200.12) with different firmware, and one would hope a different support mechanism. It seems I was wrong on the last assumption though. Really that's the disappointing part for me, I still trust these drives enough to not think I made a poor decision given the info I had at the time. However part of buying an enterprise version of what is essentially the same as the consumer drive (for $10-20 more) is gaining access to enterprise level support. I'm not really upset or urging everyone to abandon Seagate, just reporting my experiences for others to benefit from.

[valis]

Update: Finally got a response that I have an official Case# for my drives. After posting here I resubmitted my request (I've used the subject "ES.2" every time btw) and it seems it went through this time. /. mentioned their email system being overloaded, seems as if its fixed now. Will report back if/when I get the firmware update and if I notice any changes after.

Also would be nice to see this topic trickle up in a year or so and find that Seagate's reputation is in intact and their support doing better...

[valis]

I might return this new WD Caviar for a Samsung F1 or something. The 14khz whine is getting on my nerves...and I don't need a Raptor for data storage & backup.

[valis]

Well I've still no idea if my drives are/were affected, or even if SN06 is any more secure than SN04, but it seems that Seagate is closing people's cases (even those with failed ES.2's) without an actual response. So if you've emailed or entered a case on the site, and have a login that uses the same email address you emailed from, you might try going to their main support page and clicking "My Cases" on the left to login, then View All Cases. I see that my email from the 17th and 22nd were both set to 'closed' here...

but I did get an email from someone on another forum with SN06 firmware. I also compared that firmware to the 'leaked' firmware from a chinese forum, which was confirmed to match the 'official' bootable cd iso's. Here's the results from HDTune:

Seagate ES.2 ST3500320NS running firmware SN04:


Seagate ES.2 ST3500320NS running firmware SN06:


(HDTune 2.55 running under Win7-64)

[Neutron]

that looks like a worthwhile update anyways. especially how those access time high points are damped down, and those drop-offs completely gone.

i got a reply from seagate today pointing me to the page which tells me to email them about my ES.2

FFS!

now im kind if getting paranoid because im doing the RPM challenge and i dont want some nasty surprises. and of course that drive is the one i carefully set up cubase, virus control, monome stuff, and other USB crap in order for it to work well together. (at least i dont keep work on there)

id rather it screws up now and i have to reinstall, than have it crap out a few days before the deadline.

[valis]

Yea I got the same silly email with a link from Seagate. Of course it gives me the same instructions, is a response to my email sent based on those instructions! If this circular logic is how they're handling the other issues they have right now, it's no wonder they're having problems

I didn't mention above, but the tests were done in AHCI mode (ncq on), something I've left disabled in my other Windows OS's. But after further use of this new firmware, I've now gone back to AHCI+ncq in all my OS's. I had moved to no NCQ in WinXP especially, as I was getting 'stalls' in certain applications during multitasked workloads (which is exactly what NCQ is supposed to help?) Now everything feels smoother than AHCI before, and definitely more responsive than running in legacy mode. Funny that I thought it was just crappy AHCI drivers in WinXP causing me issues...

Replied to your pm too btw...

[valis]

According to their technical info the current situation is due to a specific bug when a log counter reaches the number '320' and several other conditions are met. Further up this thread you'll see it mentioned that SN06 apparently fixes RAID compatibility issues with at least one Areca controller, etc. Here's the technical info from their "Seagate issue" document:

With regards to the cause of the issue, this is quite rare.
There are 4 requirements that need to be met, in order for a drive to become inaccessible.
1.Each drive has its own log counter. This is used to count errors during drive operation. The number of log entries must be exactly 320, or multiple of (320 + x*256).
2.A particular data fill pattern must be present. This is done during the manufacturing process.
3.The drive must be power cycled.
4.The drive must contain the affected firmware revision.

Full document here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QWACKC3R

[valis]

Seagate did just fire their CEO (January 12th 2009) and their COO resigned (on the 15th). The reason for the CEO's departure given to Financial news outlets was his attitude towards the Board of Directors (who is essentially running the company now, board president is acting as CEO) and his company's position in the market (he made controversial statements you can find easily in google). They've also instigated some layoffs and cut upper management salaries though of course salaries don't mention bonuses and other executive priveledges given.

(crossposted from the problem solving forum's recent Maxtor thread for relevance)

[valis]

Updated the initial post & thread title to have current info from Seagate on this issue