here it goes again

[dawman]

Don't feel bad about this, I have voted for people here in the USA that have betrayed my trust many times.
I wish there was a way to throw all world leaders in a ghetto like North St. Louis or Gaza, and keep them there until they agree to represent the people who seek a peaceful way to co-exist.
When I grew up during the Vietnam war and yearly assainations and race riots I remember my Grandfather saying we would never make it as a nation. He was always right about everything, but he missed the boat with that prediction.
So I do have faith in time as a healer.
I just hope it comes sooner than later for you guys over there.

Shalom.

[next to nothing]

Which incidently also is the only way to transfer goods and medicine because of the blockade.

not true. blockade was not on medicine nor food up until the last 2 months. and even then it was on and off.
not that i am for the blockade - it is just as cruel as war, but saying the tunnels are built for goods and medicine is just lack of knowledge - and perhaps naivety.

Sorry, language barrier problem... I should have spelled it "incidentally", as the meaning of that sentence is that because of the blockade these are the only route for goods and medicine. It is of course also the only way to get weapons in. I'm not saying it was made for that purpose. On a side note I admit I lack knowledge, and I am also naive.

[Shroomz~>]

Nice to see that Haaretz are still printing the thoughts of Gideon Levy, no matter how controversial...

This war, perhaps more than its predecessors, is exposing the true deep veins of Israeli society. Racism and hatred are rearing their heads, as is the impulse for revenge and the thirst for blood. The "inclination of the commander" in the Israel Defense Forces is now "to kill as many as possible," as the military correspondents on television describe it. And even if the reference is to Hamas fighters, this inclination is still chilling.

The unbridled aggression and brutality are justified as "exercising caution": the frightening balance of blood - about 100 Palestinian dead for every Israeli killed, isn't raising any questions, as if we've decided that their blood is worth one hundred times less than ours, in acknowledgement of our inherent racism.

Rightists, nationalists, chauvinists and militarists are the only legitimate bon ton in town. Don't bother us about humaneness and compassion. Only at the edges of the camp can a voice of protest be heard - illegitimate, ostracized and ignored by media coverage - from a small but brave group of Jews and Arabs.

Alongside all this, rings another voice, perhaps the worst of all. This is the voice of the righteous and the hypocritical. My colleague, Ari Shavit, seems to be their eloquent spokesman. This week, Shavit wrote here ("Israel must double, triple, quadruple its medical aid to Gaza," Haaretz, January 7): "The Israeli offensive in Gaza is justified ... Only an immediate and generous humanitarian initiative will prove that even during the brutal warfare that has been forced on us, we remember that there are human beings on the other side."

To Shavit, who defended the justness of this war and insisted that it mustn't be lost, the price is immaterial, as is the fact that there are no victories in such unjust wars. And he dares, in the same breath, to preach "humaneness."

Does Shavit wish for us to kill and kill, and afterward to set up field hospitals and send medicine to care for the wounded? He knows that a war against a helpless population, perhaps the most helpless one in the world, that has nowhere to escape to, can only be cruel and despicable. But these people always want to come out of it looking good. We'll drop bombs on residential buildings, and then we'll treat the wounded at Ichilov; we'll shell meager places of refuge in United Nations schools, and then we'll rehabilitate the disabled at Beit Lewinstein. We'll shoot and then we'll cry, we'll kill and then we'll lament, we'll cut down women and children like automatic killing machines, and we'll also preserve our dignity.

The problem is - it just doesn't work that way. This is outrageous hypocrisy and self-righteousness. Those who make inflammatory calls for more and more violence without regard for the consequences are at least being more honest about it.

You can't have it both ways. The only "purity" in this war is the "purification from terrorists," which really means the sowing of horrendous tragedies. What's happening in Gaza is not a natural disaster, an earthquake or flood, for which it would be our duty and right to extend a helping hand to those affected, to send rescue squads, as we so love to do. Of all the rotten luck, all the disasters now occurring in Gaza are manmade - by us. Aid cannot be offered with bloodstained hands. Compassion cannot sprout from brutality.

Yet there are some who still want it both ways. To kill and destroy indiscriminately and also to come out looking good, with a clean conscience. To go ahead with war crimes without any sense of the heavy guilt that should accompany them. It takes some nerve. Anyone who justifies this war also justifies all its crimes. Anyone who preaches for this war and believes in the justness of the mass killing it is inflicting has no right whatsoever to speak about morality and humaneness. There is no such thing as simultaneously killing and nurturing. This attitude is a faithful representation of the basic, twofold Israeli sentiment that has been with us forever: To commit any wrong, but to feel pure in our own eyes. To kill, demolish, starve, imprison and humiliate - and be right, not to mention righteous. The righteous warmongers will not be able to allow themselves these luxuries.

Anyone who justifies this war also justifies all its crimes. Anyone who sees it as a defensive war must bear the moral responsibility for its consequences. Anyone who now encourages the politicians and the army to continue will also have to bear the mark of Cain that will be branded on his forehead after the war. All those who support the war also support the horror.

[garyb]

one thing that is hard for non-Israelis, and especially non-Jews to understand, is the horror of having no homeland that is full of one's own people. Scots, Germans, Frenchmen, Englishmen, Iranians, Turks, Mexicans, Angolans and most others know this luxury. when any country or state that such people find themselves in becomes hostile, they can always go "home".

Jews haven't had a place to go until now for almost 2000 years. of course, that's why they should have more compassion for those that they displace, especially since so many Jews aren't even of Israelite lineage, but are converts to the religion, and since the state is not truly a national(tribal) state...

[Shroomz~>]

West bank protests are getting increasingly violent - West Bank clashes over Gaza (video footage)

[Shroomz~>]

Jews haven't had a place to go until now for almost 2000 years. of course, that's why they should have more compassion for those that they displace,

It looks as though the Palestinian sentiment is that they've not only been displaced, but also imprisoned. The fact that Palestinian protesters are dressing as Holocaust concentration camp inmates speaks volumes.

[ReD_MuZe]

of course, that's why they should have more compassion for those that they displace

so true..

[garyb]

It looks as though the Palestinian sentiment is that they've not only been displaced, but also imprisoned. The fact that Palestinian protesters are dressing as Holocaust concentration camp inmates speaks volumes.

the same people running the Israelis want to treat you like that in your hometown. the UK laws are really getting crazy, and it seems everyone else is following. this is the basic "war against humanity". the Israelis are as victimized as any, you just can't see that yet....all this has been laid out in books written 10-20-30 and 100 years ago. the plan is coming together nicely.

[alfonso]

Something good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cMs0nai4JQ

[ReD_MuZe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9DN2Oi0-w&NR=1
i was here

[dawman]

Do you still have the long mane?
I think I saw you........

Great news such as this will never reach the media probably. I stay up after work until I take my boy to school and haven't even seen this on any of the networks, and every morning I usually watch the weather channel and have a satellite feed. I'll watch the cable networks and let you know.
It's funny how being silent can send a different message w/o saying anything.
I did see the Aryan Brotherhood protesting w/ some folks who appeared to be Palestinians in Chicago, and the JDL was equal in number across the street being just as hateful.
I can't understand why the most hateful protesters get media coverage, and the law abiding peaceful protesters, which have thousands of more people involved get less attention here?

I hope more Israelis continue this as it sends the right message IMHO.

Shalom.

[ReD_MuZe]

just found this:
http://www.ipeace.me/
registered right away...

[Shroomz~>]

Nice bomb !!

[Shroomz~>]

Read reports today that over 1000 people have now been killed in this Gaza episode, over 300 of which are children. If this isn't the deliberate manufacturing of more extremism & hatred towards IL & it's western allies, I don't know what is. Insanity wins the day & the IL elite have most of their people thinking they'll be able to sleep easier & feel safer when it's over.

[valis]

This just in: The un/intentional result of having a Military+Industrial and "Intelligence" industry, is the continued need for them.

Which doesn't degrade in any way the tragedies that occur, but it's been interesting to watch how active these 'industries' have been this decade, give the initial 90's doldrums over the Post Cold War era.

[ReD_MuZe]

Yeh, nice explosion, was on the papers today. described as several side explosions of a street-mine hitting weaponry hidden in civilian homes. The hamas is rebuilds homes on its "own expense", claiming one room in the house for its disposal.

watched this movie with mixed emotions: channel4 - inside hamas
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2241016730

The more this progresses the more i understand this is a war of culture. this is why most of the moderate arab world is relatively silent today:
http://multimedia.heritage.org/content/ ... 92706a.wvx

a friend called from gaza today, he is saying the kids are being shoved to the streets by the hamasniks sometimes "using them as sand bags to shelter themselves".
he is also saying that he was making many "fake arrests" so that people that want to surrender themselves don't get lynched after the war when they come back. he says its impossible to remain human after the war.

so when you count the dead, give some credit to the hamas as well....

The war needs to end but it takes two to tango. the insanity is raging on both sides, but the hamas is the runner of this show. israel is just foolishly dancing to its flute.

israelis don't need elites to hate those who want to kill them. looking at human nature i think its a rather harder not to hate. and its becoming harder and harder all the time.

this is the reason people like us (who support peace, and don't hate) should be here to spread hope, rather than to dwell on history or conspiracy fables which do nothing but entice more hate and violence in the end.

[garyb]

hamas is funded by mossad.
this is great because it gives everyone a reason to hate and fear.

[ReD_MuZe]

was, in the 80's.
yep. just shows you how stupid our gvmnt is.

[Shroomz~>]

Sorry Assaf, but there's no way on this earth I can believe that kids are beings used as 'sand bags' unless it's bodies of the dead, which would still be horrid, but believable. I'd need to see unquestionable proof of such an accusation or else it just sounds like more scripted & issued spin BS.

Also, even if there ARE weapons being stored in civilian homes in Gaza, that still doesn't excuse Israel's excessive methods of dealing with the problem in my mind. Even if there's stashes of little rockets & other weapons hidden all around Gaza (as is to be expected & should come as no great surprise to anyone) that's no excuse to bomb the shit out of the place, but that's the whole point of spending billions of dollars on weapons of mass destruction. No point in buying them if you can't use them. No point in them being made if nobody buys them I suppose.

[Shroomz~>]

this is the reason people like us (who support peace, and don't hate) should be here to spread hope, rather than to dwell on history or conspiracy fables which do nothing but entice more hate and violence in the end.

Assaf, there's no conspiracy fable or made up story involved in the fact that A LOT of people PROFIT from war. That's no fabrication or bending of the truth, that's FACT. When the World trade centers came down on 9/11 the first thing that entered stock brokers' minds was that the price of gold would rocket. Indeed it did. Gold's value doubled in minutes. While bombs were dropping on Iraq the brokers in the Wall street stock exchange were jumping around cheering, not out of patriotism or some misguided sense of justice having been served, but because the price of a barrel of oil was rocketing. At one point when the bombs began dropping in Iraq, a barrel of oil that was worth $13 was immediately worth $40.