due to the high view rate the warez-thread is showing we see that there seems to be a high interest for cracked pulsar devices among the users.
so, for those who feel fine using cracked pulsar devices, and don´t want to accept that they are injuring law, this might be a simple and the only real good argument:
it is a big danger for our whole platform. if one uses a cracked microsoft product it´s not the same. microsoft has millions of users that pay, if there are illegal copies or not.
creamware has just a few thousand users (if not less), and the third-party developers need the money for every copy of their devices.
if just half the people who have read that warez-thread (over a thousand now) look for the warez, find it and use it without paying the developers, that companies have to stop supporting the scope-platform. they can´t do anything else. and the next step is (for nobody supports it) that creamware stops building the cards and developing forth the software. finally stopping support for it.
<b>you can´t want that. so don´t use that warez. it´s stupid to do so.</b> if you do, do it for testing, and pay, as you decide to use them in future.
stay in tune
Mo
cracked pulsar devices - please read.
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algorhythm
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Tennessee, USA
- Contact:
While I do think using Warez is wrong in most cases, consider the following argument.
1. The only way you can harm a software developer is financially. (That is, they still have their product). Your argument hinges on this fact.
2. If you do not intend to buy the product, then the developer is not harmed financially. (Your argument also assumes that the buyer intends to buy the product, which is not necessarily true).
3. Therefore, if you do not intend to buy the product, you are doing no wrong because you are not harming the developer.
Just because something is illegal does not mean that it is immoral (civil disobedience, etc.). While I do agree that people who can afford expensive software (_especially_ people who profit from its use) ought to buy it. However, for many of us, this is not the case. I am a college student who pinched pennies to get a used Pulsar I for $500. I simply cannot afford to spend $$$ for some device. When I can, I do (just bought MOD II, will soon buy from Hummell, cuz his stuff is priced reasonably and he makes lots o freebees). The only time it is wrong to pirate software is when you CAN afford it (i.e. it would be wrong for me to pirate Hummell's $50 synths, because I have $50).
You are correct about platform size, and my argument accounts for that. Pirating WIN2K would do little financial harm to Micro$oft, whereas pirating a 3rd party creamware developer would do much more harm. Therefore, pirating the creamware stuff would be more wrong IF you are able and were going to buy it.
Also, there is no evidence that a system of karmic rebirth occurs, so karma is not good evidence to refrain from using pirated software. (Just got done studying Eastern Philosophy, Karma is on some pretty shaky, and unsubstantiated ground).
I hope to have perhaps enlightened some people (pun intended) as to the Woes of pirating (or at least caused some questioning of one's views).
[insert flame war here !
!
!
\ /
!
just kidding
peace out!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2001-04-15 18:59 ]</font>
1. The only way you can harm a software developer is financially. (That is, they still have their product). Your argument hinges on this fact.
2. If you do not intend to buy the product, then the developer is not harmed financially. (Your argument also assumes that the buyer intends to buy the product, which is not necessarily true).
3. Therefore, if you do not intend to buy the product, you are doing no wrong because you are not harming the developer.
Just because something is illegal does not mean that it is immoral (civil disobedience, etc.). While I do agree that people who can afford expensive software (_especially_ people who profit from its use) ought to buy it. However, for many of us, this is not the case. I am a college student who pinched pennies to get a used Pulsar I for $500. I simply cannot afford to spend $$$ for some device. When I can, I do (just bought MOD II, will soon buy from Hummell, cuz his stuff is priced reasonably and he makes lots o freebees). The only time it is wrong to pirate software is when you CAN afford it (i.e. it would be wrong for me to pirate Hummell's $50 synths, because I have $50).
You are correct about platform size, and my argument accounts for that. Pirating WIN2K would do little financial harm to Micro$oft, whereas pirating a 3rd party creamware developer would do much more harm. Therefore, pirating the creamware stuff would be more wrong IF you are able and were going to buy it.
Also, there is no evidence that a system of karmic rebirth occurs, so karma is not good evidence to refrain from using pirated software. (Just got done studying Eastern Philosophy, Karma is on some pretty shaky, and unsubstantiated ground).
I hope to have perhaps enlightened some people (pun intended) as to the Woes of pirating (or at least caused some questioning of one's views).
[insert flame war here !
!
!
\ /
!
just kidding
peace out!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2001-04-15 18:59 ]</font>
ok, let´s forget the karma for a minute...i understand your arguments, and i also share them in some way. <i>"if i would really have to pay for that software, i would never use it... so no financial damage is done"</i>
but... in this way nearly everybody could use pirated pulsar devices, 'cause no one would say that his financial status is now high enough to pay all the devices dragged from the net all the time...
...please be consequent.
To algorhythem
You can justify stealing and deny karma.
(that's just a word) the action still happens even if you don't think so.
what is worse might be the effect you have on others with this talk of how because you can't afford it, it's ok to steal it. I don't think so.
software is still material that someone
spent time and money to create. It has worth.
there are lots of things I would like to have, like "osiris" for tripledat. I finally broke down and bought Modular 2 for my pulsar
setup.
about 20 years ago I drove down to San Berndino, California from Portland,Oregon bummed out cause this sweet girl took off. Anyway I had All of my music equipment and clothes in the trunk. Lots of effects Electro -Harmonix was pretty big then, a Gibson Eb5 bass,a Gibson SG custom three gold pickups, gold hardware, on a white cream color body (I still miss it,,,more than the girl)they took it all!
everything, all I had was some shorts, no shoes, no car, no shirt.
well the car was found stripped everything gone,,I got ripped off! Strange thing was they left in the back seat (and it was in the trunk)all my songs I had been writing for the last 5 years,,,I couldn't beleive they left my songs ,,the only copy I had.I guess I was lucky or what ever you want to call it.
don't be the thief
Sincerely,
Bettis
You can justify stealing and deny karma.
(that's just a word) the action still happens even if you don't think so.
what is worse might be the effect you have on others with this talk of how because you can't afford it, it's ok to steal it. I don't think so.
software is still material that someone
spent time and money to create. It has worth.
there are lots of things I would like to have, like "osiris" for tripledat. I finally broke down and bought Modular 2 for my pulsar
setup.
about 20 years ago I drove down to San Berndino, California from Portland,Oregon bummed out cause this sweet girl took off. Anyway I had All of my music equipment and clothes in the trunk. Lots of effects Electro -Harmonix was pretty big then, a Gibson Eb5 bass,a Gibson SG custom three gold pickups, gold hardware, on a white cream color body (I still miss it,,,more than the girl)they took it all!
everything, all I had was some shorts, no shoes, no car, no shirt.
well the car was found stripped everything gone,,I got ripped off! Strange thing was they left in the back seat (and it was in the trunk)all my songs I had been writing for the last 5 years,,,I couldn't beleive they left my songs ,,the only copy I had.I guess I was lucky or what ever you want to call it.
don't be the thief
Sincerely,
Bettis
You might turn around the story. For example I could use cracked Pulsar devices to create a hit single and when it's released/making money. I buy the devices (Something I could not do even if I wanted because of not having enough money). That way it works for both artists (who do not have all the money of the world most times) and the developer because eventually he sells a device he wouldn't have sold otherwise. In my case, if I could use a cracked Pulsar sampler (sts) I would, BUT if it would ever be the case I would make some money with it. I would buy the sampler imediatly. Another thing is, since most artists don't have money to the ceiling (at least when they're starting) They will not be able to buy/use the commercial devices out there. Where producers with a bigger rep, ofcourse can. That way you will always be one step behind. Warez could 'correct' this....
Plus I still think there should be more usable devices included in the basic software when I see what the basic software has to cost.
Plus I still think there should be more usable devices included in the basic software when I see what the basic software has to cost.
There are dozens of great free devices for Pulsar. The Saturn, 303, ZS404, Blue One, Lo-Fi, Comb etc.
And of course everyone would like everything for free, I'd like a free house and car. I can't afford either right now so I think I'll just go out and take a car. Hmmmm....let's see how I can justify that. Well, if I like the car I steal maybe later, when I'm rich, I'll buy one !
People can argue some ridiculous convoluted philosophical reason why it's OK, but really they just want something for nothing - who doesn't? I love free stuff. What I don't like is people pretending that not paying for something is somehow doing everyone a favour and helping the industry.
And of course everyone would like everything for free, I'd like a free house and car. I can't afford either right now so I think I'll just go out and take a car. Hmmmm....let's see how I can justify that. Well, if I like the car I steal maybe later, when I'm rich, I'll buy one !
People can argue some ridiculous convoluted philosophical reason why it's OK, but really they just want something for nothing - who doesn't? I love free stuff. What I don't like is people pretending that not paying for something is somehow doing everyone a favour and helping the industry.
If pulsar devices were not so expensive, there would be no reason to crack devices.
I bought Modular 2, cause thats a good deal
Things like transient designer are a total rip off.
I beleive developers charge so much to justify their purchase of a Scope system.
In general, I think Creamware needs to lower the price on Scope. That would solve alot of problems.
~swamay~
http://www.swamay.com
http://www.mp3.com/swamay
I bought Modular 2, cause thats a good deal
Things like transient designer are a total rip off.
I beleive developers charge so much to justify their purchase of a Scope system.
In general, I think Creamware needs to lower the price on Scope. That would solve alot of problems.
~swamay~
http://www.swamay.com
http://www.mp3.com/swamay
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algorhythm
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Tennessee, USA
- Contact:
To spirit, mo, etc. -
you are missing the point -
intellectual property is not the equivalent of material property.
With physical property (as in the house and car examples)it is wrong to steal them, because to do so means that the person from which you stole them no longer has them, thus you are depriving them of something of theirs. Such is not the case with intellectual property (ie, if I steal a copy of your program, you still have your copy). Thus their is a difference in kind betwixt the two, and the reason the former is wrong is not support for the latter being wrong. I have argued that the only wrong for stealing I.P. is financial, which does not apply to every case of theft. Your counterarguments equivocate the two ("Theft is theft") and are therefore invalid.
Whoever had the stuff stolen out of their trunk, that sucks, and is wrong. But, if you had a software program in there, and had a backup at home, it is less clear that you are wronged (you still have your software) excluding the trivial theft of the $.15 CDR.
I want to reemphasize that stealing software is USUALLY wrong, but not always so.
good countexample about using pirated software to make a hit single, and then buy it, whoever posted that.
l8er, all. and happpy music making (whatever the origin of your devices)
you are missing the point -
intellectual property is not the equivalent of material property.
With physical property (as in the house and car examples)it is wrong to steal them, because to do so means that the person from which you stole them no longer has them, thus you are depriving them of something of theirs. Such is not the case with intellectual property (ie, if I steal a copy of your program, you still have your copy). Thus their is a difference in kind betwixt the two, and the reason the former is wrong is not support for the latter being wrong. I have argued that the only wrong for stealing I.P. is financial, which does not apply to every case of theft. Your counterarguments equivocate the two ("Theft is theft") and are therefore invalid.
Whoever had the stuff stolen out of their trunk, that sucks, and is wrong. But, if you had a software program in there, and had a backup at home, it is less clear that you are wronged (you still have your software) excluding the trivial theft of the $.15 CDR.
I want to reemphasize that stealing software is USUALLY wrong, but not always so.
good countexample about using pirated software to make a hit single, and then buy it, whoever posted that.
l8er, all. and happpy music making (whatever the origin of your devices)
To make professional sound you have to have professional tools. If we all were professionals earning big bucks with our sound this issue wouldn't exist. The situation is hard for the people learning mixing but not making money with it and the temptation to use cracked software is great. It is true that there are a lot of good free devices out there but most of the free 3rd party devices are just limited teasers from real expensive products.
I think Creamware has the ball. If one is to buy a professional soundcard the money spent is fairly big. Because the development of the Pulsar software should be easily paid with the Pulsar hardware the cost and risks per product are very low compared to the 3rd party softwares made solely as add-ons. If Creamware continues providing free professional software for their DSP cards the path to professional sound shouldn't be too rocky even for the beginner. Using free software people are able to see if they can earn the money needed for the expensive 3rd party products. If they can't they shouldn't need them. No need for cracked Pulsar software!
I think Creamware has the ball. If one is to buy a professional soundcard the money spent is fairly big. Because the development of the Pulsar software should be easily paid with the Pulsar hardware the cost and risks per product are very low compared to the 3rd party softwares made solely as add-ons. If Creamware continues providing free professional software for their DSP cards the path to professional sound shouldn't be too rocky even for the beginner. Using free software people are able to see if they can earn the money needed for the expensive 3rd party products. If they can't they shouldn't need them. No need for cracked Pulsar software!
Fair point Algorythm. It's true with a copy a single object has not really been stolen. At least CW is protected (to a degree) because you must buy the hardware in the first place. And Swamay is spot on with Scope. It's outrageously expensive! No ordinary user can hope to develop any device because there's no way they can afford Scope. I think this is one of the real weaknesses of the Pulsar/Scope system.
i don't know what this is all about. how can a device that gives you 20-30 or more hardware devices for the price of a couple possibly be expensive.my 10 grand in my computer system and control room = 500 grand in real devices.this looks ridiculously cheap.o.k. maybe everyone can't buy it but is that bad?the only thing special about a great peice of music is that not everyone does it.everyone shits. try to sell shit.
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algorhythm
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Tennessee, USA
- Contact:
The hardware devices U can sell if U don`t use them, but try to sell only one of plugins U pay`d for to Creamware ? It`s the price U pay to get "cheap" "hardware"
device...
And another thing: I have half-dead Pulsar (dead ADAT interface) and i want to swith to another board, but for all commercial plugins i have to pay again.. Thanx to Michael Olsen he is ready to give me new key`s but Creamware ignoring my emails... and i ask: Isn`t it a reason to use cracked Pulsar software ?
device...
And another thing: I have half-dead Pulsar (dead ADAT interface) and i want to swith to another board, but for all commercial plugins i have to pay again.. Thanx to Michael Olsen he is ready to give me new key`s but Creamware ignoring my emails... and i ask: Isn`t it a reason to use cracked Pulsar software ?
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Frontline Studio
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Planet Earth - Region: Netherlands
IMHO it is never defendable to use cracked Creamw@re and related software for your hardware. It is not that I try to be more Catholic than the Pope , but using such software is biting the hand that feeds you.
I've had my problems with registering my Pulsar hardware as well, but after some questions and explanation from the ppl from Creamw@re were willing to help me. They need your serial number on the box, and stuff.
, but using such software is biting the hand that feeds you.I've had my problems with registering my Pulsar hardware as well, but after some questions and explanation from the ppl from Creamw@re were willing to help me. They need your serial number on the box, and stuff.
CU,
John.
John.