VIA Chipset bottleneck EXPLAINED - VLINK: Hope not looking s

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:58 am

After struggling with a VIA based motherboard/system for a few months, I started to gain insight into the reasons the VIA chipset was choking much faster than an Intel chipset. I narrowed it down to the PCI arbitration scheme (which is evidently hardcoded on most/all boards) used by the North Bridge.

<a href=http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1451&p=1>This article</a> over at Anandtech explains really well the problems with past VIA chipsets, especially <a href=http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1451&p=3>page 3</a> where they explain Via's "new" VLINK technology that finally brings it onto the level that Intel chipsets have had for years with their hub-based approach (ICH2 on i815E for example).

Notice at the beginning of the article that Anand gives praise to the AMD760 chipset (it does work well in some tests performed by a pulsar-scope member with Creamware cards), and that most motherboard mfgs seem to ignore it and go for the cheaper, higher profit margin VIA chips. Hopefully the new VLINK changes the whole thing, it would be awesome to finally really use an Athlon.

[ This Message was edited by: subhuman on 2001-04-12 12:16 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:37 am

<a href=http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/0 ... html>Tom's hardware reviewed a board based on the KT266 chipset.</a> Performance is a little dissappointing at this point.

<a href=http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... 402357>And then people commenting about it on the Anand forums...</a>

Mo · Post by Mo » Tue Apr 10, 2001 4:45 pm

most mobo manufacturers claim the kt266 to be a little faster than the amd760 in there own laboratories. i guess they just have to optimize the prototype boards.

about the bottleneck: intel´s bx is also very good for pulsar, and it´s architecture was just like the current via chipsets. so it´s not just the hub architecture of intel´s chipsets, it´s _also_ a fast memory interface.

i wouldn´t invest too much hope into that kt266... me for myself feel fine with my bx-boards, the next, more interesting chipset for pulsar is the nvidia crush, released in autumn 2001. that chipset will increase the bandwidth between north- and southbridge from 133 mb/s (or 266 mb/s with intel´s and kt266) to 6,4 Gb/s. i guess all the other interconnects will take a benefit, too. so in combination with a >ghz-cpu and ddr-ram these systems will be much more performant than all new system using ddr-ram or rambus, kt266 or intel´s hub-chipsets, p4 and whatever...

untill that the best platform for pulsar/scope is truely intel.

gruß,
Mo

emenelton · Post by **emenelton** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:20 pm

Is there a dual processor board that has the hub architecture of the 815 intel?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:39 am

Intel won't officially support duallies on the 815 chipset, but that won't stop a few companies for doing it anyway, I believe I saw some "pre release" information for a coming dual-815 board, but it wasn't from a mfg I would buy from (ASUS, ABIT, MSI or Intel, but preferrably only ASUS), so I ignored it. But it might be a good option when Windows XP is finally released...

emenelton · Post by **emenelton** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:35 am

Is there a difference between the cusl2 and the cusl2-c

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 9:03 am

the "C" has the i815EP chipset, so no onboard video, one less CNR slot, and no AGP Pro slot (just normal AGP).

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:03 pm

<a href=http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/ ... corruption bug hits VIA chipsets</a>

Effecting anything that uses the VIA sound bridge including AMD760, KT133/KT133a, KX133:

"...VIA's BIOS fix works by adjusting a number of PCI settings, which, according to TechChannel, suggests the problem is a result of competitive PCI access...."

Interesting, as we all have known for over a year now that there are problems with motherboards PCI bus when using VIA chipsets.

Mo · Post by Mo » Thu Apr 12, 2001 4:42 pm

Interesting, as we all have known for over a year now that there are problems with motherboards PCI bus when using VIA chipsets.

maybe our cards are some good mobo-benchmark

i would like to know, what benchmark is mostly representing our application situation...

...often there is something written like "only a few apps take more advantage than a few percent from the new ddr-ram"
which ones ? perhaps pulsar?

[ This Message was edited by: Mo on 2001-04-12 17:45 ]

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:14 am

Start the build today for $1755 total..Am I making a mistake aside from $$$ with this:
AMD New Athlon(Thunderbird) Processor at 1.3GHz, 266MHz FSB, 256K Cache
Biostar M7MIA AMD 761 4X AGP Socket A 200/266MHZ FSB UDMA-100 DDR Support
256MB PC-2100 DDR 266MHz Memory (2 X 128MB Modules)
60GB Ultra DMA 100 7200RPM Hard Drive
Matrox G450 32M AGP Dual Output Video Card
Acer/Aopen/Pioneer 16X DVD-ROM Drive
Creative Sound Blaster LIVE! Platinum 5.1 Edition Retail Box
Internal US Robotic 56K V90 PCI Modem w/Voice
1.44MB 3 1/2 Floppy Disk Drive
Full Tower Screwless AMD Certified 300W ATX Case
Microsoft PS/2 Internet Windows Keyboard
Microsoft IntelliMouse PS/2
Altec Lansing ACS-54 4-Channel Surround Speakers w/Subwoofer
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Edition
Standard 3 Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty
ADS Pyro Digital Video 1394 FireWire PCI Card 3-Port
Sun Micro StarOffice 5.2 Application Suite
Thanks,
Grandaddy

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 8:08 am

Supposively the VIA bug is fixable with a BIOS update (flash). Why the BIOSTAR motherboard over the ASUS A7M266 (AMD761)? ASUS definitely makes some of the best motherboards, if not the best... But you're right, I believe many/most mfgs are choosing to use the buggy 686B Southbridge since it's cheaper than the AMD southbridge.

Also, why so little ram? If possible, get 256meg chips, and start with 512megs, especially if you plan on using your computer as a sampler, and plan to run Logic/Cubase/Cakewalk at the same time as Pulsar.

Other than that it looks pretty sweet.

emenelton · Post by **emenelton** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 10:20 am

If its a pulsar system is he going to be able to use win2000?

lifechanger · Post by **lifechanger** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:55 pm

The computer comes with 128...they wanted $140 for an addition 128 stick. Ha! I just ordered two 256's for $200 bucks. I'll have to keep LunaII and Pulsar I on my P-333 550 with 368 RAM until Pulsar comes out with 2000/XL/WDM drivers. I'll run SonarXL with 2000 and WDM drivers on the new computer with Sonic Foundry...until Pulsar comes around. I get sooo confused with all the MOBO's...just settled on the DDR 1.3 and fsb..I don't know if they actually install that card you're talking about. I'm gonna go to the site and check it out now!