Windows 7 Beta Next Month

[braincell]

I'm not going with OSX. I like to build and fix and upgrade my own computers. Steve Jobs won't let me do that, plus a lot of stuff isn't available for the Mac and replacing all my software is too expensive! Not to mention the fact that I hate Steve Jobs. I think he's an enormous dick.


Red,

I have three computers currently. One with Vista and two with XP service pack 3. The Vista computer never gives me the blue screen of death like XP sometimes does. When Vista crashes, it is only that application. I can restart the application and I don't have to reboot my computer. Rebooting my computer interrupts my flow of thought. Whatever you have to say about OSX and the 3D overlay is not relevant to me. I believe you but for me Vista is better than XP. I don't know Apple.

[Shroomz~>]

I hate Steve Jobs.

I hate brussel sprouts.

[siriusbliss]

I have a love/hate relationship with Windoze. I only like it after I hack the shite out of it.

I'm skipping Vista on purpose, since it's basically a bunch of NSA spyware coupled with a somewhat update GUI that is mostly a waste of resources at this point.

I NEVER use anything as-is off the shelf.

MacOS users often don't realize how similar the two OS's are at their core. The hardware is nearly the same nowadays.

A real OS hasn't been invented yet IMO. Linux is great, but still lowsy for DAWs.

I might upgrade to V7 for the novelty of utilizing dynamic GUI objects and wild navigability. Otherwise I'm afraid it's more of the same.

G

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/index.html

[kylie]

I hate Steve Jobs.

I hate brussel sprouts.

that's a mistake. you're doing it totally wrong !
I ate it once, and it's tasty!

[ReD_MuZe]

well no one can accuse any of us here for not knowing windows. even if we have a mac at home

BrainCell - i dont hate steve or bill, i disaprove of both companies stategy, and i think selecting one over the other on ethics alone would be a VERY complex game.

osx lets you customize just like a normal Unix system would - more than windows - if you know how to use it.

and im not talking about 3d overlays, im talking about good vector classes and an amazing GUI engine (cocoa), which can also be used to calculate waves and dsp if you want... OSes is all about GUI

i was worried i would not be satisfied with osx software when i started, so i installed xp on bootcamp well, besides synthmaker and scope, every software i had on the mac was faster funner and more reliable.

i like to work with the best tools on the market, atm its OSX when windows-8 comes out ill check it out openly. but vista is passe for me. osx is like a microwave. you dont know what you need it for but when you get it, you cant be without it....

[Neutron]

Will new windows help or hinder your work? vista hinders it for me. so i use XP.
i MIGHT try windows 7 on my other PC nut i do not really see any reason to. XP hasnt ever given me a BSOD, and i have all kinds of USB crap, extra drives etc hooked up to it.

the only thing slightly compelling about windows 7 it is they say its trim enough to run on a netbook(but still not as trim as xp?) unlike the huge bloated festering maggot that is VISTA they can keep all the desktop crap. i would probably change it to "windows classic" anyways just like i do with XP, Vista etc.

As long as there are XP drivers for new stuff ill stick with XP. "if it aint broke dont fix it"

[braincell]

Like I said I don't know Apple at all. This has nothing to do with the debate over XP versus Vista. I contend Vista is better. Not enough to upgrade your current computer but if you are getting a new computer with enough RAM and a decent graphics card, Vista is worth having. I use the deluxe version.

I probably would try Apple now if I could afford to plus get Xite-1 and some other things. Really I would like to spend about $10,000 on gear right now.

honestly,
ms had only 1 decent OS ever, and thats xp (sp3 is g00d).
no reason to think this will ever change

Vista is stone-age compared to 0SX 10.5, and its supposed to standup against 10.6.
its not just about resource management, its also about gui, and development resources, graphics engine and much much more.

OSX runs full blow animations with alpha channels, and antialiasing in realtime, and on the other hand Vista is busy redrawing simple pixel graphics 90's style.

while searching the entire pc on a mac takes less than 5 seconds, i can wait 5 minutes for a simple seach in windows to end

and you know what? i dont even like OSX i think some of it is stupid and even fascist. but what can i say... Vista is microsoft's worst mistake, and windows-7 seems to be what vista was supposed to be. well its way too late for that...

my advice is get osx and wait for windows 8

[kensuguro]

I use xp, osx, and vista daily, and even though I don't consider myself an apple fanboy, osX wins hands down. It wins so hard it's not even funny. Interface flashiness, and all the "fun" crap is all icing on top. The way the APIs are built built makes it fast and efficient. Vista thinks it can do graphics that way, but I turn all that crap off the instant I install it. OSX is allowed the graphical fanciness because it doesn't get in the way, and none of the core functionalities are broken. I'm frankly sick of having to figure out the best tweaks for windows, version after version.. so much turning off, registry hacks, etc, etc.. It should just work out of the box, which osX does a very good job of. It just works, and does what it's supposed to do. Simple.

Touch technology is full of crap. It's not the way of the future. Graphically, and in the movies, maybe. But in reality, I doubt it. It's just a dream of tech geeks. Interaction limitations of touch interfaces breaks what makes computing fast and efficient.. So, at best, it's just a fancy presentation tool.

Computing happens from the wrist down. Involving elbows and shoulders, and even more joints for the table lookin' thing, is just stupid. It can involve large motions, but that's not daily computing, that's something else. (like presentation) If you wanted to check email, and the icon just so happened to be across the table.. oh no, you have to lean over and grab it? The reason that the "desktop" is not as big as a real desktop, is because the inefficiencies have been taken out... namely distance. And touch screen re-introduces that and people think it's cool for some reason. If they want to drag stuff over distance, they can drag a sand bag from point A to B repetitively, which is called labor in some parts of town. Physical computing seems and looks natural, but humorously inefficient. Physical concepts have been abstracted in modern day computing for a very good reason. If a person thinks a "document" is better if it looks and acts like paper, that person needs to work on his imagination.

And since the interface has to be based on the size of the finger, and not the mouse cursor, everything becomes big, requiring more screen estate to show equal amount of info. Too much movies, seriously. Touch screen is for ticket booths, you know, the ones with the puzzling UI.

But who knows, just like the US is caught in a touch screen frenzy, the Japanese keep trying to make humanoid robots, maybe it will happen one day. It's not the demand, it's the production that creates the market after all. You see enough ads about it, and before long, everyone has one. See the dudes speaking loudly to themselves like an idiot on a wireless bluetooth headset? That's a good example of a product that exists only because people think it's cool to be talking into an intercom lookin' thing. (well, those were for drivers, not pedestrians) Manufacturers may be interested in "forcing" touch screens since it's got less moving parts? (easier to manufacture) I dunno, but it definitely seems to be forced.

[braincell]

I agree with that. It would make your arm tired to hold it up. There is an advantage over a touch pad or mouse however in that you can use multiple fingers. I could imagine music applications which would take advantage of this. The visual aspect helps your memory and understanding. The SFP let's you see the path of audio which is helpful. If I can visualize something, I can more easily understand it. We know for sure that people love touching the iPhone. It is an inferior keypad though but the angle is better than a monitor. The Microsoft table thing looks cool.

I also turn off Aero. I still like Vista more than XP. I will take your word that Apple is better. Currently it is not within my budget. The Apple OS could easily be sold to PC users if Steve Jobs wants to and Apple would make way more money. This makes me angry. One reason maybe I would consider an Apple boycott. I like to build my own computer. I am not the Apple target. Apple wants women.

[ReD_MuZe]

ken - i fully agree with the first paragraph, it feels as if it almost came out of my mouth only much better

about touch technology - i don't agree with all you say. touch technology is VERY important especially to us musicians.
Playing music is exactly that - presentation. Touch technology is essential for computer music performance.

Besides that, i really enjoy the multi touch pad in my macbook pro, its very intuitive and easy to use.

computing isn't about computing. computers are tools that are there to help us do just about anything we imagine - part of which is having fun while being inefficient (one of my favorite off-time occupations). touch technology will not replace they keyboard and mouse so soon, but its important. especially for music.

like any technology in its infancy, it seems to be useless. but as history shows allot of useless technologies have become useful over the years. computers are one of those technologies.

braincell - you can install osx on your pc just like you install windows

[braincell]

Isn't that a hack? I'm not sure all my hardware would work with it. It seems somehow risky.

[kensuguro]

well, actually you guys are right. I guess I meant touch is pretty cumbersome for every day computing, like writing email, word processing, the usual stuff. For specific applications written to take direct advantage of the interface, it works great. Jazzmutant thing for example. But those are embedded units, essentially task specific machines that have all aspects tailored to a specific task. It just seems a little whacky think that general use computers will some day become completely touch screen.

Heck, as long as we're speaking task specific custom units, motion tracking interaction is also very promising. I guess it's that since I'm from a digital media arts background, I've seen so many touch surfaces and all sorts of camera tracking interactive installations that I sort of became immune to the wow factor, and can only think of all the interaction problems that had to get figured out. And so far, I don't think I've come across a single one that transcends "fun little thing to mess with at the convention", and enters into the realm of "a tool that I'd use every day, for hours, and be productive with it".

Heck, I think the jazzmutant thing still falls short. I don't get why anyone would display faders and knobs on it and be happy that they can interact with all of them at the same time. I remember that you could do that with a plain old mixer. Seems the problem is more with the application and interpretation of the capabilities, rather than the hardware.

[ReD_MuZe]

Isn't that a hack?

you can install osx on your pc just like you install windows

I'm not sure all my hardware would work with it. It seems somehow risky.

no pain no gain.

there is a reason you can install osx on your pc... and its good for apple, as you will soon notice.

motion tracking interaction is also very promising.

man! i tried johny lee's head tracking hack with the wii remote, i think it could totally be the future of personal computing. talk about efficiency! move your head a bit and look at everything behind it.

i kinda like the new movement of adapting computers to normal human behavior. not everything needs to be learned. for sure this will convert allot of technophobes...

[braincell]

I like the way you can throw things with touch. It seems very fun.

Red,

Some people complain that the wii does not have enough resolution. What is your experience with this? I tried it once on the game and it didn't seem very responsive.

I believe that 3D games is the future of most entertainment. Music and music software will be a part of that. As we live in a 3D world, it will be very compelling. It also is a good way to remember where things are and where you put them. This is important as we will acquire more and more tools. Try to remember a name of someone you briefly met yet if you see that person, you remember her face.

[garyb]

all this vista windows 7 stuff is baloney.

the next REAL windows upgrade is one where you won't have anything but a dumb terminal. everything will be handled by the corporate master's servers, "Midori" i believe it's called, which will dovetail perfectly into the final solution, hack directly into the brain. i'm sure the matrix will be better than life for for most of the maladjusted "brains" in this world. get ready for the world in which you won't own anything, not even your personal "data".

get ready for the singularity! become the borg and assimilate, resistance is futile!

[ReD_MuZe]

yawn....
how did conspiracy theories get in here now?

go watch some recent google and sun tech talks and see that the opposite is true, computing is being decentralized! wake up and welcome to the 21st century.
http://laptop.org/en/

but you know what's really interesting? owning things will really get fucked once we have our own personal fabricators, that can produce almost anything we want...
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/neil ... _labs.html

what will it mean to own something when you don't have to pay for it?
what will it mean to own something unique when anyone can replicate it?

[braincell]

The Bonjour service keeps trying to update my computer and install Safari and there is no way to make it stop! F Apple!

[ReD_MuZe]

nobody told you? NEVER install apple software on windows.
http://www.ajuaonline.com/2007/10/02/ho ... r-service/

[garyb]

how disengenuous Red. Midori is NOT a theory. neither is Cloud. they are real and they ARE the plan and have been. there's a nice talk from A. Huxley in 1962 at Berkley where he describes EXACTLY that.

that's really funny Google being for decentralization, nest you'll tell me that they haven't been working against net nutrality while claiming to be for it. Google and Sun(the guys with the swastika logo) are two PRIME proponents of "cloud" computing. they along with M$ and IBM are the main developers. oh, i know, google with their NSA code are good guys who always tell the truth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

why would the "consumer" want to carry around a whole computer when a small terminal is all that's required? everythings already online anyway. those laptops are the first step. personal fabricators? no. that will never be allowed for the commoners, well not until the 80-90% population reduction. that's bad business. besides, that guy will have every doorknob "interneted". great, that's all i need, talking toasters, how annoying. i'm still waiting for all this leisure time and easy life that technology is supposed to bring. i can see that it does do that for some, but for most, it's the newest form of slavery. NO they WON'T make us independant. we'll get targeted bioweapons and implants first. oh, sorry, those who put the mark of molech on their flags WILL get the goodies, but they have to burn their babies first.

don't get angry though, it's just the internets talk. you don't have to believe it.

also, you know Red, just because i argue with you or what i write rubs you the wrong way, doesn't indicate a lack of respect for the man.

[ReD_MuZe]

of course some people are planning such stuff, but its getting obvious to every one including the big players, that guys like us just don't dig that stuff, and we (people who know computers) set the public opinion ultimately. not any of their commercials.
just like the smart chip could not replace cash, this can never happen as well.

sun is a company that has always been ahead of the market by several years. inventing technology that ms and apple have commercialized 3-4 years later. their support in open source, and googles support in open source (google summer of code) is enough to convince me that open source is here to stay and perhaps even take over in several years. an install of debian just made me sad there are not enough music tools for it, since it just works better than windows (and i'm making one ).

I believe in my power as a consumer to change the companies that serve me, and you know what? i am basing my own business on the same model, just like more and more major players are.

Imo the information revolution has only started, and no company or conspiracy in the world can stop it. information will be and can be free. once someone makes a fabricator in china, where copyright is basically outlawed, you will have plenty of fabricators all around

and you know what? maybe its an illusion, maybe someone is controlling our lives. well if they are, i'm pretty happy where i am making music for a living, and coding my fav project. i cant ask for much more, except for peace and lasting health.

i don't think the world is run by evil geniuses.
i think it is run by stupid exhibitionists.
and a plan to take over the computing world might easily end up like the war in iraq

cheers!
Assaf

p.s.
no, they just play fools so we think they are and ignore them - genius!