Reaper Continues

[dawman]

For Reaper lovers this is a chance to discuss w/ the developer about ideas and what is coming to version 3.0.
What a concept 'eh.
I have so much pain free work from sticking w/ developers who listen.
We at the Z are accustomed to such personal level help, but a sequencer app where the developer listens.
Got my attention.

http://www.reaper.fm/forum.php

[braincell]

I am interested in Reaper because it is made by the people who make ninjam so ninjam is incorporated into Reaper. I imagine this would allow you to use a midi clock with ninjam which would be very useful to sync pre-recorded music and midi sequences etc..

I haven't tried ninjam yet. As I just mentioned in another post about ejamming, I have not been able to get my port open or something so I am about to give up on the "ejamming" software.

Interesting that Reaper costs a lot more for commercial use. I guess this is on the honor system. I wouldn't want to pay if I was earning less than the cost of the software though.

My experience is that SC and formerly Creamware don't listen to customers at all which is common. The Reaper folks also release open source software such as ninjam, you have to figure they are more broad minded than most companies are. As I understand it in the past, Creamware only worked with developers who were personal friends of theirs which sucks.

[dawman]

Agreed.
I love Cubase 4.0's MIDI workflow and editing/quantizing capabilites.
I love Reaper/VDAT for their ease of use, and audio qualities.
I absolutely love VDAT for mastering.

Everyones workflow is differnt I suppose.
And VDAT's extra quality seems to help inside of a Scope project when mastering. More seperation and panning seems to be more evident, but once you transfer the medis or convert it the magic's gone.
Thankfully I have this to use live, so it always remains in the project.

We recently recorded some new background vocals and drums using only EReflections. This way I can change the larger spaces which reside in the AUX's in case a new venue has a larger stage, or wooden floor etc. Won't know till I do a different gig, but at least I can continue adjusting a semi mastered project.

[dawman]

+1

If I need a bloated app I already have Cubase 4.0.
But I will stay w/ 4.0 and keep the bloating as is.

[braincell]

It seems bloated because it has a lot of features but I don't want them reduced! I use a lot of the deeply hidden ones. It would be daunting for a new person to learn. It always has been since they added audio. The audio recording is actually a lot easier than it used to be, also more stable.

[dawman]

The beauty of Cubase is you can get what you want out of it if you are willing to sit down and spend some time.
It took me a week to really learn how to do realistic ritardandos using MIDI tracks, but it really rocks, even better than my percentage based hardware model.
I just think the instabilities I have had from day one w/ MIDI tracks played back is from excessive features, which is too bad as it is the best for recording those.
I dump them to Reaper or hardware to trigger the sampled instruments for playback and have no issues.
It's all good as long as I can get work done by using what works for me best from each app.
But Reapers developer seems to have a good tradeoff between stability and functionality. I hope he keeps it simple.
On another note I really wonder how many people paid him the full pop so they could use it commercially?
It makes me wonder about sampled instruments with the same licensing agreements.
Long time ago Peter Gabriel paid a developer a nice sum of money for his Shakuhachi sample on the Emulator II in the song Sledgehammer. It was well placed IMO also, nice hook no doubt.
How does one define commercially?
If someone is found to be using this at his gig live and has been making money for 2 years doing so, does that entitle the developer to sue for an out of court settlement based on a small percentage?..........

As Spock Would Say.......................Fascinating.

[astroman]

...Interesting that Reaper costs a lot more for commercial use. I guess this is on the honor system. I wouldn't want to pay if I was earning less than the cost of the software though...

to be honest, I'd like to call you a literal a**hole for that statement
it is in no way the concern of Reaper's developer(s) if your business is successful or not
if you go to stage with Reaper or use it to release a record or do some paid audio work for someone then you are bound to the commercial license - regardless of your balance

would you work for someone who ceases your payment because ...well, we didn't do so well last month... ???

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

would you work for someone who ceases your payment because ...well, we didn't do so well last month... ???

cheers, Tom

I would not work for someone if my expenses are higher than what he pays me! I am happy with Cubase so there is no reason why I need this program especially since the MIDI is bad. I may perhaps consider using it for ninjam but probably I will not get it. I'm just musing. To be honest, your statement clearly indicates to me that you are a douche bag. Any insults will be met with ten times the force. This is my new policy. I could care less what you think I am. You don't know me and you are not my friend. I would regard someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word "literal" as ignorant and uneducated or undereducated.

[dawman]

There Ya' Go Agin......................................

[braincell]

I bet Jimmy paid $50.

[astroman]

shall I ? nah, not really

[Mr Arkadin]

Seriously looking into Reaper as my Cubase version is very old (5.1) and there is no way i'm going with Steinberg. i love the way braincell accuses S|C of ignoring customers, yet that's all i've ever felt from his beloved Steinberg, who have done only good things of course.

The thing about reaper is that everyone is saying it's more for audio than MIDI (at the moment) and yet still doesn't contain an audio editor - even my 5.1 has a basic editor. Or have i missed something in the newer version (have yet to wade through the manual).

One thing's for sure, Steiny will never see another penny from me.

[braincell]

It's apples and oranges. Let's just say that Cubase has evolved a lot more and gives more bang for the buck. You could say don't blame SC because they are poor or whatever. What they are doing now is not for me. I like the Scope platform. That is why I bought my cards. I could care less about the ABS and the F-ing Xite-1 but they keep saying they have to do this or that to save the company. This is bullshit because it gets away from what should be the primary focus; the SFP! Cubase hasn't increased in price but SC went from very expensive to much more expensive. That is why they are doomed. They keep making the same mistake as Creamware did. Frank was wise to leave it.

Mr Arkadin, you are seriously biased against me and your opinion has little or no value whatsoever. You are a nobody to me.

[dawman]

Meanwhile back at the ranch with Reaper............

_________________________________________________..........

Hey All,

O.K some numbers for the Single Quad System so we can get an idea of the x-scling from 4-8 Cores..

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DAWbench DSP -N4 - RXC : Intel Quadcore QX6700 @ 2.66 GHZ : 1066 FSB : Nuendo 4.1.2

Motherboard : P35 :

Memory : 4 GB - XMS6400 @ PC6400 - 800 MHZ : Standard Timings by SPD :

O.S : XP SP2 :

RME HDSP9632 : Driver : 3.056

256 Samples - 070 RXC : CPU 95+% : ASIO 95+%

128 Samples - 062 RXC : CPU 95+% : ASIO 95+%

064 Samples - 056 RXC : CPU 90+% : ASIO 90+%

032 Samples - 041 RXC : CPU 80 % : ASIO 90+%

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAWbench DSP -R2 - RXC : Intel Quadcore QX6700 @ 2.66 GHZ : 1066 FSB : Reaper 2.1.0

Motherboard : P35 :

Memory : 4 GB - XMS6400 @ PC6400 - 800 MHZ : Standard Timings by SPD :

O.S : XP SP2 :

RME HDSP9632 : Driver : 3.056

256 Samples - 81 RXC : CPU 95+%

128 Samples - 75 RXC : CPU 95+%

064 Samples - 65 RXC : CPU 95+%

032 Samples - 50 RXC : CPU 95+%

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAWbench DSP -S7 - RXC : Intel Quadcore QX6700 @ 2.66 GHZ : 1066 FSB : SONAR 7.02

Motherboard : P35 :

Memory : 4 GB - XMS6400 @ PC6400 - 800 MHZ : Standard Timings by SPD :

O.S : XP SP2 :

RME HDSP9632 : Driver : 3.056

256 Samples - 64 RXC : CPU 85%

128 Samples - 53 RXC : CPU 75%

064 Samples - 34 RXC : CPU 70%

032 Samples - 0 RXC : Would playback, but would stop as soon as one plug was initiated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick analysis of figures highlights 2 areas, one being the overall efficiency/performance advantage of Reaper over the 2 other apps, in regards to scaling from 4-8 cores , Reaper achieved increases of 87% to 102% , while maintaining the performance lead.

Interestingly SONAR also scaled equally as well if not better between 256 to 064 , ranging from 87% to 108% , the reason I am not as impressed is simply because the numbers are a little deceiving as the large scaling was helped by the lack lustre performance on the Single Quad, as well as the inability of running the application at 032 samples.

Nuendo's scaling ranged from 67% to 34% , in a linear diminishing scale from 256-032 , so there is definitely some room for improvement..

I'll let you guys digest that for while.., I 'll post some graphs in the next day or so..

Peace

V:
__________________
Intel Quad & Dual Quad : Lynx2 : RME HDSP : XP SP3 : VISTA 64 SP1 :

_______________________________________________________________________________


Some interesting benefits that the developer seems to have implemented with his less bloated app.
These are from a Cubendo lover who moderates the DAWBench Forums.
The P35 seems to love Reaper 2.0.1 & XP SP2.


Cheers

[Mr Arkadin]

Mr Arkadin, you are seriously biased against me and your opinion has little or no value whatsoever. You are a nobody to me.

Just using the 'logic' you use arguing about S|C onto Steinberg. FOR ME Steinberg have lost their way. FOR ME Cubase is a bloated pile of crap these days. FOR ME they are going in the wrong direction. But you're happy with them and that's fine. Just replace Cubase/Steinberg in the above sentences for S|C and that would be one of your arguments - except you wouldn't even say FOR ME, you would spout it as an absolute truth.

i don't waste my time on Cubase forums telling them how shit i think their product is and that it's going in the wrong direction and that their customer care is shit, i move on (i have a life). Pity you don't.

[Mr Arkadin]

PS. Apologies to Jimmy for 'doing a braincell' and derailing this thread with negativity.

Back to the regular show...

So does anyone know if Reaper now has basic audio editing - that thing's got the world's thickest manual and i haven't found it yet?

[kylie]

Interesting that Reaper costs a lot more for commercial use. I guess this is on the honor system. I wouldn't want to pay if I was earning less than the cost of the software though.

I don't know exactly how much you had to pay for cubase in your country, but it wasn't cheap, for sure. and steinberg/yamaha treat all cubase folks the same: as commercial users.
I did not see a complaint about that, so can I assume you might be satisfied with their fee... ?!

you are willing to pay for software (or hardware) that works for you (that's why you bought cubase, and that's why you bought your scope cards, as you stated more than once). I'm absolutely fine with the fact that you refuse to do so for stuff you do not consider worth the money (that's what I do myself). there is just no reason to repeat that again and again. your point of view is not exactly a secret, and I for one can share your points (to a certain degree).

My experience is that SC and formerly Creamware don't listen to customers at all which is common. The Reaper folks also release open source software such as ninjam, you have to figure they are more broad minded than most companies are.

1) your experience and the the experience of others may vary. my experience is different from yours. time will tell if they can make something that makes you feel being heard, too, for instance smaller xite editions. if there was a poll for it I'd even join you
2) release something for free can boost other products that work hand in hand with the free product, so it is, indeed, not a bad move from the point of view of the manufacturer. and something you can benefit as a customer as well.

btw, if you think you're not commercial enough for reaper, you have the choice to start with the private edition and upgrade to commercial later on, when your income meets the software price, plus you can try out the software with full functionality, as there is no copy protection at all. the upgrade fee is exactly the difference between both editions, so you won't suffer from any loss here. a policy I would love to see from steinberg as well. what do you think?

-greetings, markus-

[garyb]

+1

[dawman]

I'm actually running a cracked version so I can concentrate on all things Scope.....
Just kiddin'. Commercially to me means making money, and I prefer the hardware onstage. But I guess I use Spubase commercially to create my drumtracks that I dump into VDAT.
I never had the chance of watching Spubase grow as I was Mr. Hardware/ProTools/ADAT kimda guy, but I really do enjoy watching something developed that I feel I am involved in.
That's probably why I am attracted to it, and the same for the other folks.

I just got home and really hate myself for being such a musical whore for a buck, so out of guilt I must go play Solaris and do God's Modulations.

Have A Great Scope Day, or just slam some brews.

[braincell]

btw, if you think you're not commercial enough for reaper, you have the choice to start with the private edition and upgrade to commercial later on, when your income meets the software price,

-greetings, markus-

No, this would make me a "literal a-hole" according to astroboy.

What is great about Reaper anyway Jimmy? Why do you have Reaper if you have Cubase?

Cubase bloat doesn't bother me as long as it does not affect the performance. That is usually the problem with bloat as in the Windows or Apple OS; on the contrary, I find that Cubase is more stable than it used to be and the effects and synthesizers sound better so I don't see how anyone could possibly say it is getting worse. You can overload Cubase by adding too many inserts for your computer. Don't do that! They may be more CPU intensive than some earlier version. This is because they are higher quality. They tried to reduce the strain by making them turn off automatically when not in use. That is a great feature.

I don't think Steinberg necessarily needs direction from customers. They have a focus which is their sequencer and it is very mature. Reaper has just begun. The SFP stalled. I hope it will be developed more. If it isn't, it should be made open source. SC seems to care more about hardware now.