Hardware Wishlist - Ideas, Mockups & Designs

[garyb]

braincell, we must be becoming very good friends.

let's talk about this other nonsense in another thread..

[Neutron]

Banning people is a pussy move.
.

Thread jacking, repeating the same complaint over and over again
whats that then?

[garyb]

Gary says it is my right to defend myself.

and it is, if you are attacked without just cause.

it's also your right to turn the other cheek.

yes, stardust, it is. we're wrecking the thread further, i'm afraid.


i'd like an integrated hardware controller, or at least full mackie control or other generic protocol that can handle fine movements and all the needed controls, even though i have no money at the moment. i'd like more i/o to be easily added to the xite. otherwise, it's all pretty good. i don't need an S/C keyboard, personally.

[siriusbliss]

I believe there was promise way back almost 10 years ago that there would be fine-grain adjustment protocol for faders, etc. - beyond MIDI resolution.

I think it's even printed on my old Pulsar I box.

Maybe the time has come.

Greg

[astroman]

well, the protocol indeed is present in Scope since the Pulsar days
it's also fairly easy to implement it in hardware (Olive from DAS has shown an example recently)
but (imho) it's in no way easy to be produced for any competitive (end user) price tag.

after all it would be a Scope specific device with a target quantity of (say) 50 units per year
probably most people would buy a touch sensitive TFT instead (if left with the choice), as it would likely be the same region of investment. Not yet messed with them, but imho modern touch surfaces might include programming options to improve resolution beyond the usual point and click mouse movement.

Anway I've thought about this for a couple of years and even considered the controller question almost solved, but still lack a cost effective hardware implementation.
Some parts simply didn't fulfill reliability specs as one would expect with such a device.
For something like (say) 5k units per year one may optimize production, but other than that...
I originally considered a general purpose mode to broaden customer range, but then just look what you can buy for 50 bucks from Korg today ...

a single rotary encoder starts at about 2 Euro, in 100 qty it's 1 Euro per piece
a channel with volume, pan, 4 band peq, compressor and 2 sends is about 20 dials
which means 24 channels are roughly 500 Euro for the raw dials
as you don't mass produce, someone has to hand-plug those dials into the circuit board and apply the required 2500 solder joints...
couldn't resist to calculate - at 5 seconds per connection it would take 3,5 hours - so you gotta be damn fast with the iron, don't you ?
you see where this leads to ?
(I picked the cheapest encoder regardless of specs, the thingy might as well be 3 times as expensive)

when the original Scope system was designed, prices were several times higher than today (!)

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

There would be a lot of potential with the touch screen technology implemented in Windows 7. For instance, connecting modules with your finger would be more elegant than using the mouse is. I don't use auto-connect myself. Mixing with your fingers would be fun too. This would require SC to implement touchscreen in the platform. I am sure SC will not be reading this thread so it's probably just a pipe dream. I know Adern is working on some touchscreen stuff. This is the kind of thing which shouldn't be difficult to do. I am aware that it would not be touch sensitive but you could measure the speed and there would be unlimited faders unlike a hardware solution.

[astroman]

... you may just have a tiny peek at one of the pricelists for industrial grade TFT screens
no matter what technology is used, you won't find any 17" unit for less than (say) 1.5k Euro
there is no problem to use a touchscreen with Scope, as it hasn't been a problem in 1999
ok, there is this small annoyance that you accidently move the device when pointing unprecisely... well, actually it can drive you nuts...

the point is: you have to spent at least $2k on a dedicated TFT controller unit
according to your recent comments I wouldn't really expect you on the customer list, tho

the multitouch gimmicky stuff may be nice, but by far essential
let alone whatever comes out of Redmond...
They didn't invent anything there in 25 years and they won't do for the next decade

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

I didn't know it was that expensive. The price will come down. How low remains to be seen. You currently can buy a 42 inch plasma TV for $700 USD; something which would have been too expensive for 99% of people just 5 years ago. A demand could be created by the popularity of iTouch screens.

[braincell]

I disagree with this $1,000 prediction because the HP TouchSmart tx2 laptop is already priced at $1,149 USD.

[siriusbliss]

cheap is relative to how high a resolution the actual touch regions are. If not high-res enough, then it's still a moot subject.

Price for quality of code, integration, GUI design and/or ability to program a touch interface to existing Scope GUI is most worth it.

I'd like to have 3D models of my studio devices and do virtual plugins of all the I/O's that way.
I'd like to have an 'inverse' bxDigital' that is integrated with a Scope module that does a room analysis and retunes all my mixes to compensate for the stupid acoustics in my studio. Sort of an analyzer/bxDigital/harbal super-module.

Greg

[garyb]

i want Tony Stark's virtual 3D system...

[Shroomz~>]

cheap is relative to how high a resolution the actual touch regions are. If not high-res enough, then it's still a moot subject.

It's not just the resolution that takes touch screens out of my interest for Scope, it's the size of our fingers. To get anywhere near the precision of user interface-to-software interaction as a mouse provides, you'd need a utensil of sorts to press on the screen like you see on palm pilots & personal organizers. That kinda takes the 'touch' out of touch screen though... Waste of time for a DAW or serious instrument IMO unless you're talking about a MASSIVE screen (like 40+ inch).

Mark

[Shroomz~>]

Btw, using a fake pen/pencil or a little stick-come-magic wand to physically prod around a touch screen is a lot more strenuous on your arm, wrist & hand than a mouse over a period of time.

[braincell]

I don't have a problem with it at all. A mouse is not accurate enough for drawing. My tablet came with lots of extra replacement tips but I don't see how anyone would need these. You don't have to apply much pressure at all. I think there are just a lot of neanderthals out there who can't control their hands and put way too much pressure on them.

[Shroomz~>]

Touchscreens are WAY down the list of best hardware user interfaces for implementing a high res fader or potentiometer... or interaction with a virtual one & for plenty of serious reasons. I'm all for new technology, but can we please ban expensive gimmicks that don't work as well or make as much sense as other, cheaper & more reliable solutions.

[dawman]

Agreed,

I am interested in a good sized hardware console to use w/ powered cabinets to use XITE-1 as a medium sized live PA application.
I am gunning for getting Casinos that are behind in terms of equipment and approaching them with a cheaper, better sounding solution.
They are still using old Soundcraft and Mackie boards w/ never enough channels, old power amps, EQ's, etc.etc.
Most of the gear they have is long throw and too powerful for the venue.
I am thinking of the success I have had w/ mid field cabs that are powered and require zero maintenance.
4 x powered monitors and 1 x powered sub w/ an XITE-1 and a good sized screen and a computer is all that is needed. I already found out the last purchase they did was in 1992 and cost them 26.000 USD. I can easily beat that at half of the price, and they got deep pockets.

I would love to see something with 24 channels w/ double paging abilities, good sized LCD's and meters on the AUX's for once.

This has already been done by a couple of DIY guys here.
Let's here more on this.

I am taking this place like Grant took Richmond.
But I will need help, and naturaully a product soon I hope.
These folks are shocked as I discard their PA and use my Scope DAW's and powered cabinets, they aren't sure why it sounds so good, they just know that it does.
The first gig we did was really a dive w/ the worst Peavey shit I ever saw, and the Security Guard was the sound engineer !!!! It was a very sad place but we smoked 'em and brought some life to the degenerates that dwelled there.

It'll be a longtime before I have to use the " SoundCop " again.

At any rate a serious hardware mixer is needed. If I can already do this on my KS88's this cannot be that difficult of a task.

[wayne]

Scope remote wireless for Nintendo DS?

[kylie]

EyeToy [tm] ?

[garyb]

Scope remote wireless for Nintendo DS?

i thought someone posted this for wii...

[astroman]

... At any rate a serious hardware mixer is needed. If I can already do this on my KS88's this cannot be that difficult of a task.

then let's elaborate this idea a bit...
assuming you mean an all-channel-hands-on device and not a single-channel-switchable-to-active there is a serious amounts of parts and manual work

as written on the previous page it's a large size circuit board
a few hundred encoders, half a day to solder and another half to mount the boards
even without motorfaders you'd hardly be able to build it for less than 1k Euro (raw costs) in a local small series production
add a case, cover, switches, metering and indicator lights and it puts you off another grand.
an estimated sales price would be at least 5-7k to remain profitable
this assumes a small series is made - multiply by 2 and you'll probably find someone who's building it for you as a custom unit

now assume you find someone who's able to cut down your 2k raw costs down to 500 if you order 1k units by him.
You have to finance half a million on production plus marketing costs to establish the product and still success is a vague thing in economy...

at least it should be clear by now that you're approaching the price tag of the 'established' guys - and mind you... no customer with such a box expects to be left in the rain if something goes awefully wrong - so add staff to the support department... driving your costs further...

all this left the software out completely
and here's the next drawback - Scope isn't independent
it's closely tied to the host operating system and the pc board it's running on

to warrant any reliability of the 'mixing console' at all, you'd have to supply and configure the hardware as well.
my PC retailer is in this kind of business (OEM terminals in shops)... not exactly what you'd call funny - and his stuff fits in a pilot's case.

there are a couple of (Scope) internal problems as well, that need a software revision
but due to the 'mixed' nature of the system one can't really tell if it's related to the host hardware/OS or internal processsing.

it may look simple to control a few Scope items by whatever, but to turn this into a profitable, industrial grade product - lets say mixing desk plus digital recorder (VDAT) - is a rather demanding task. If possible at all.
The SC folks are all from pro audio and engineering and know about this, you bet...