American Citizen Celebration

[dawman]

I am proud to have another dear friend of mine get his U.S. Citizenship after 7 years of waiting. I vouged for him and got him a good paying Union job here years back, and he and his family are quite proud, rightly so.

We have a flawed policy no doubt, but most Mexican immigrants understand and play by the rules, and often do jobs that no American would even tolerate for more than a month.

He has rented the entire restaraunt and of course me and my X will show up. Tonight I shall feast in his honor, and with any luck make it home safe, with a couple of bottles of Patron.

Much is wrong with our Government, but in this case, this is an example of the old time tradition of bring us your poor thing written on the monument at Ellis Isalnd, that makes me proud to be American all over again.

God Bless Our Constitution.

From Sea To Shining Sea...!!!

[garyb]

sometimes people mistake not wanting open borders with being against immigrants. that's cool that being an american was something to strive for as far as that man was concerned, and congrats to him that he acheived his goal.

[braincell]

There used to be no borders. Governments are evil in that they restrict the natural freedom of movement. Look at the earth from space and you will see no borders. Borders are like prison walls which divide the earth's citizens out of greed and fear. I fail to see why Hawaiians who live further away from me are my brethren or some how related to me while Mexicans and Canadians are not. I fail to see why people are literally dying in the desert trying to get here yet anyone who is simply born here is granted citizenship while we try to kick their parents out! We let anyone in from Cuba become a citizen if they are able to set one foot here which is good but if we catch them before they reach our soil, we send them back! Meanwhile, Mexicans and all other people of the world don't get the same treatment. The EU was a great idea and I hope this is a trend that will be expanded worldwide. I don't like only being able to live here. I have a friend who moved to France many years ago and he is not able to legally work. That sucks! He loves France and is an asset to France. People who are very wealthy will find a way to live where they want but poor people can't. Down with borders and Xenophobes!

[garyb]

braincell, as with guns,
if you could get rid of ALL the governments, then you might have something.....

in the mean time, i see no reason to give all the power to a government or even a governance. it's best to split power up.

as to people dying in the desert, Mexico is one of the RICHEST countries on the earth, yet their people want to come here to work for the lowest wages in society. the border is not the cause of that.....

it's unfortunate that your friend can't live and work in France, but that's part of what makes France a nice place. if thousands and thousands of people just settle in there, long time residents will lose their way of life that was attractive in the first place, and there will be a serious series of crisi ranging from clash of cultures and the misunderstandings and violence that brings, displacement of families and poverty. look at most places that heavy emigration has occured including NYC and even a fool can see the reason for regional control of borders. borders also act as firewalls against plague and epidemic. as you know, mass emmigration is always quarantined before the emigrants can mix with the general public(for example ellis island). also, at points of entry, gaurds are watching for, among other things, disease. if your friend really wishes to emigrate, i'm sure there's a process. and please, think a little deaper than repitition of rhetoric.

[MD69]

Hi

it's unfortunate that your friend can't live and work in France, but that's part of what makes France a nice place. if thousands and thousands of people just settle in there, long time residents will lose their way of life that was attractive in the first place, and there will be a serious series of crisi ranging from clash of cultures and the misunderstandings and violence that brings, displacement of families and poverty. look at most places that heavy emigration has occured including NYC and even a fool can see the reason for regional control of borders. borders also act as firewalls against plague and epidemic. as you know, mass emmigration is always quarantined before the emigrants can mix with the general public(for example ellis island). also, at points of entry, gaurds are watching for, among other things, disease. if your friend really wishes to emigrate, i'm sure there's a process. and please, think a little deaper than repitition of rhetoric.

France a nice place !?!?

From where do you get this? tourist ads?!

never understood why ?

Franckly, there is generally more interesting places and peoples in the US than in France!

cheers

[Shroomz~>]

France is a very very nice place in my experience of having been there at least 35-40 times, but like anywhere it is polluted by cities & industry. I've visited many cities & many rural areas in France, both for work & for pleasure, but nothing strikes a blow to the country as a whole more than the fact that beautiful French rural areas are being carved up & heavily polluted by industry & power generation that mostly fuels the cities. I'm sure it's the same in many other European Countries as well & that there must be many people in Europe feeling that their country is being destroyed (at least in part) by immigration. I suppose then you have to ask the question:- Is it really their country? Do people have the right to say 'this is my country'?

Mark

[valis]

There used to be no borders. Governments are evil in that they restrict the natural freedom of movement. Look at the earth from space and you will see no borders. Borders are like prison walls which divide the earth's citizens out of greed and fear. I fail to see why Hawaiians who live further away from me are my brethren or some how related to me while Mexicans and Canadians are not. I fail to see why people are literally dying in the desert trying to get here yet anyone who is simply born here is granted citizenship while we try to kick their parents out! We let anyone in from Cuba become a citizen if they are able to set one foot here which is good but if we catch them before they reach our soil, we send them back! Meanwhile, Mexicans and all other people of the world don't get the same treatment. The EU was a great idea and I hope this is a trend that will be expanded worldwide. I don't like only being able to live here. I have a friend who moved to France many years ago and he is not able to legally work. That sucks! He loves France and is an asset to France. People who are very wealthy will find a way to live where they want but poor people can't. Down with borders and Xenophobes!

I'm not anarchistic enough to believe that there's no use at all for governing and regulating structures in society. Social contracts have their usefulness, the problem comes when they're ignored through apathy or subverted by excesses, corruption and just plain old evil. It doesn't seem to me as if getting rid of governing bodies would remove these flaws in the hologram of human nature, it would merely change their focus.

Now if you've got a suggestion on how to improve those social contracts, or what to replace outmoded ones with...

[MD69]

Hi, Shoomz

Forget the postal card and look at facts!

cheers

[garyb]

hi,
i said France was a nice place because there is someone who wishes to live and work there, and he must find it nice. i'm sure France has the same problems as everywhere else....

[Shroomz~>]

Hi, Shoomz

Forget the postal card and look at facts!

cheers

What? What Postal card? I've been to France so many times under different circumstances (as I said both work & pleasure & 35-40 times was an understatement) that I know France better than most of the immigrants living their. So, postal card, no.

cheers,
Mark

[braincell]

France is a nice place but it is stupid to think you can keep it the same through legislation. How about having at least one country on earth where all people are welcome? We used to have our doors open to immigrants and it was a great benefit to us. People who are against change are called conservatives and I hate them with every fiber of my being!

[MD69]

Hi

I mean forget the lanscape! look at facts! A country is made of peoples, officials (51% of population in France), government, political regimes...

To visit a coutry for a while is mostly nice ... to make a living ... You have to check more thoroughly. You have to agree with it's values (the "real" ones not the officials) because your childrens will have to accept them ...

By the way, I can trace back my family as french .. since the 15th century, so I know what is to be french.

cheers

[MD69]

Yep!

wherea for me, the only time I felt at home ... was in N.Y!

too bad

cheers

[Shroomz~>]

I mean forget the lanscape! look at facts! A country is made of peoples, officials (51% of population in France), government, political regimes...

I fully understand what you mean, but my points weren't isolated to the subject of landscapes. Pollution of rural communities by Industrial waste has as much to do with people as it does politics.

To visit a coutry for a while is mostly nice ... to make a living ... You have to check more thoroughly. You have to agree with it's values (the "real" ones not the officials) because your childrens will have to accept them ...

100% agreed. My parents spend 6 months each year in France, have French registered vehicles etc, so I understand at least some of the real values of living in France having spent a lot of time there myself.

By the way, I can trace back my family as french .. since the 15th century, so I know what is to be french.

I appreciate that & can only say that I cannot do the same.

regards,
Mark

[Shroomz~>]

wherea for me, the only time I felt at home ... was in N.Y!

Well move to NY !!

FWIW, the only time I've felt 'at home' in North America (so to speak) was in Canada. Probably purely because I'm a Scotsman & they tend to like the Scots in many parts of Canada. No idea why though.

[MD69]

Hi Mark,

My family tree is there just because some might have thought I emigrated recently!


By the way, in 81 I had some nice time in Preston (student travel to preston polytechnics) where I met musicians which invited me to stay in England and play with them ... sadly I had to do my military duties!

cheers

[Shroomz~>]

Michel, Preston isn't a very nice place. If you think France isn't a nice place, come back & take a closer look at Preston. Anyway, I'm of course very glad that you were lucky enough to have a nice time there. Like so many places in this world it's the sort of place that to visit could easily have been bad news, but that's partially about luck, at least to a visitor.

cheers,
Mark

[hubird]

-

[MD69]

Hi Mark,

A nice time doesn't necessarily mean that it was a nice place. 81 was already a difficult period for Preston and Liverpool economically. Pleasure beach reminded me Quadrophenia of the who! ... but there is scottish lakes nearby.

Hubird, I spend some time in Amsterdam, Rotterdam (there were a good mexican restaurant close to the arbor) and Gudda 10 years ago as I subcontracted some jobs to technolution and 3B engineering (both knowledgeable companies).
Rotterdam was not so funny as a good part of it have been destroyed during WWII. The city look "cold" (modern town planning) compare to Preston (close to some french villages). Peoples were nice there too, but I have a special remembrance for those old english ladies which showed so much willingness to help ...

For my job, I went to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Portugal, England, USA, Canada, ... each time a different experience.

cheers

cheers

[braincell]

Well I take my friends word on it. He doesn't plan to come back to the states. That is enough of an endorsement for me.