lockup + stuttering = not happy

[eliam]

I'm experimenting lockups with this stuttering half second loop, since I rigged up my system for live use... I've never had such a problem before, and I've recorded and mixed my entire album on that machine...

Now It freezes every hour or so... I've tried a lot of tweaks and tests but no improvement yet...

My system:
-Intel DG965 RY mobo
-core2duo 6400 cpu
-1gig corsair ram
-couple HDs
-geforce 6200 pcie video controller
-2X6 dsp boards gen2
-1X15 dsp board gen1

usb is disabled, as every other unused connectors, onboard audio is disabled.

each SC board has its own irq.

I'm on a recent XP install with the bare minimum of software for my live needs. This happens whether or not I have asio enabled, it doesn't seem to make a difference. My project involves fairly complex midi routing, I have many midi filters routed to my synths and mixers. I have to fix this or I'm giving up the dream of performing live with that amazing sounding setup, but I won't give up easily, because it sounds HUGE!!!

My HW setup goes like this:

-1 kawai mp9000 connected through midi to my novation x-station keyboard, then routed through the scope midi in.
-1 set of bass pedals (non midi) sending audio to a flexor-powered modular patch with pitch-detection.
-1 mic plugged in my preamp then routed through my lucid ada 8824 unit.
-scope is slaved to the lucid ada through lightpipe

I have to fix this issue asap, so any possible shred of a solution will be warmly welcomed!

Thank you very much!

E

[garyb]

midi feedback loop?

midi buffers fill pretty rapidly with midi clock and active sensing messages, although the filters should help with that. filters won't stop a feedback loop though. have you tried using a usb midi interface just to check?

[MD69]

Hi

I would check also if the problem is hardware based or project based.

Do you have the same problem with another project involving other devices (exemple audio going out without the ALucid DA 8824 (scope master).

[eliam]

Gary, I'll try to route the midi through usb and see if it makes any difference... I noticed it usually freezes when I play on my keyboard. I don't remember having any freeze when I'm not actually playing. Are you saying that filtering my midi stream (inside of scope) could possibly help by removing unused data?

MD69 - I've been building a single project and working almost exclusively in it for months, so I don't know much about other configurations... It might help my troubleshooting to try different setups for sure...

Thanks for the input

[garyb]

Are you saying that filtering my midi stream (inside of scope) could possibly help by removing unused data?

yes. better to filter midi clock and active sensing(especially active sensing!!!) by turning those messages off in the controller.

I noticed it usually freezes when I play on my keyboard.

this sounds like active sensing at work. possibly a midi monitor(in the scope midi menu) would give you information...

[eliam]

What should I look for?

[garyb]

active sensing and midi clock messages.

[eliam]

Ok, I checked: my scope midi source (keyboard input) is routed straight into a midi filter which trims out all system midi data, so the active sensing which is present at the input is filtered. WHere does that leave us? I haven't seen any midi clock data.

[garyb]

well, that SHOULD work. it's better to not send all that data through the port.

try another interface just for yucks if you can't turn active sensing off in the contrller and/or if the filter doesn't help, just to rule out that solution.

one thing, a bad cable whip will definitely cause your system's symptoms too...

[valis]

Filtering out active sensing inside Scope doesn't eliminate that issue, it merely reduces it as the data is still technically entering Scope.

Also I've found that some of the older (free) modular modules and other free devices cause lockups with multicore/multicpu machines, though they will only do so when loaded into an active project.

[eliam]

Would it be a way to filter the unwanted data before it enters scope? I don't think I can turn that thing off on my controller...

[eliam]

Well, well... what doyaknow... I switched the cable whip and no crash ever since... Could it be it...?? Knocking on wood... Seems Gary saved the day, once more... I'll continue to play for a few hours and see if I've truly crossed into no-crash land...
Thanks a bunch!

[garyb]

my prayers are with you...

[eliam]

Thanks!

It took longer than usual but it just froze again...

What would you try next Gary -or anyone ?

This active sensing thing... I mean, does it cause issues to anyone (else)?

I could try to route my midi through usb, through my sequencer and then into scope, possibly try to trim out the active sensing in the seq... Is there a plugin that can do this kind of thing?

[garyb]

the problem is when the midi buffers fill, as i understand it. the extra data makes a mess, depending on how you use things. another interface may behave differently. active sensing always causes a freeze with sonar, but not always with cubase sx3. a project midi filter usually fixes freezes in my experience. feedback loops can sometimes make your computer freeze for the same reason. other than that, it should work, unless you're using one of the modules valis described or unless there's a hardware problem...

[eliam]

I.m passing my midi through my seq via usb and the active sensing doesn't get through to scope. So far so good, but I'll test the setup more before shouting victory!

[eliam]

No crash today! Knocking on wood... Man this setup is great!!! I'll punish mercilessly with it, spreading around my message of love and compassion and peace!! I'm totally enthusiastic, I'll play some more to see if it still doesn't crash... so far so good!

[dawman]

Brotha' Man Eliam,

Scope's MIDI Filter should be used along with a mains powered patch bay / filter for 100% safety. MIDI is similar to USB in the sense that increased voltages from some kind of merger or MIDI unit will keep the pipes flowing.

Ever since I got a mains powered USB Hub I have zero issues. Same goes for the MIDI merger / patch bay. The 1U racks like DMC MX8 can be had for pennies, but really come through at the gig. I have 2 hardware MIDI Panic buttons, 16 of Wolf's Auto Panic Buttons. and the MIDI Filter from Creamware and still occasionally get a sticker, but quickly terminate it with extreme prejudice.

One button on the 1U MIDI Patchbay, and a footpedal from the FP8 assigned to unclog the pipes, In case it happens when I have to use both hands, the pedal is a lifesaver.

Active sensing sucks, but it's here to stay.

Brainspawn's Forte has a great way of connecting a pedal to it's software app also. You'd think Steinberg would have one for us, maybe that app will mature in another 10 years.

[eliam]

I do experience the occasional stuck note, but it's pretty rare... I have a panic button on my novation controller but a foot-controlled one would be needed for safety, for I rarely have a free hand during my performance... My right foot travels between my damper and expression pedals, so it could be used in case of a stuck note... What is panic function anyway, it's an assigned controller? I'll have to figure out how to patch this in my system...

So you're saying that I'd need a h-w midi filter to be really safe, in addition to the software ones? I do have a midi router that was given to me but I never used it because I don't have that many machines/controllers to route.

My show's getting better day by day, I'm becoming more and more efficient with the bass pedals as well as the whole setup, it's going to be a major act!

Thanks everyone for the hints, I've had no crash since my midi is routed through usb, in my seq and then into scope. Its a bit weird but it works, up to now...

[garyb]

the hardware midi bay probably has a filter, so yeah, it would help. you might even be able to return to the Scope midi port that way...